Nope, as long as it doesn't affect me, directly or indirectly, I could care less what people do behind closed doors.

jmog;417546 wrote:What in the world does that have to do with the conversation at hand?

Have you even been reading or just throwing stupid comments from deep right field?

Many people who feel that sex before marriage is wrong (which is a perfectly legitimate opinion, I have no problems with people who believe this) also think that by teaching kids about safe sex and condoms rather than just abstinence that they're encouraging sex. That's why I was asking.

majorspark;417445 wrote:My kids have full knowledge of the purpose of condoms. I lay out all the facts and consequences that come with sex. Sometimes in uncomfortable raw language coming from the old man. But that is my responsibility as a parent. I give them my advice and counsel, tempered with my life experience. Their choices in this area are now in their hands.

Fair enough. Not questioning you as a parent. Your kids, your rules, your methods. You seem to be on top of it (like you need some 20 year old telling you that, but anyway). I don't have any problem with your approach. Will it be the exact one I take when I have kids? Probably not. But you're at least doing what you feel is right while remaining reasonable.

jmog;418102 wrote:Also, I could name some perfectly legal things that you might have an "opinion" on as well.

If you live in an area where gun discharges/firing is perfectly legal, you might have a problem with your neighbor firing off a few rounds every day.

You might have strong opinions about prostitution even if you lived in Las Vegas or the Netherlands where it is legal.

You might have a srong opinion about marijuana even if you lived in California.

What I'm getting at is that all of these things can be done in "private", have no bearing on your life, and you could have strong feelings on some of them.

The gun fire thing becomes less private than the others once you can here it on your property.

As far as prostitution, etc. As long as people do it in private I really don't care. Not my business. Assuming it isn't anything like children or people against their will.

I Wear Pants;418397 wrote:Many people who feel that sex before marriage is wrong (which is a perfectly legitimate opinion, I have no problems with people who believe this) also think that by teaching kids about safe sex and condoms rather than just abstinence that they're encouraging sex. That's why I was asking.

You didn't just "ask", your "question" had the assumption laced with it.

I Wear Pants;418400 wrote:The gun fire thing becomes less private than the others once you can here it on your property.

As far as prostitution, etc. As long as people do it in private I really don't care. Not my business. Assuming it isn't anything like children or people against their will.

So you, and MOW, have nothing that you think is morally wrong?

Even if they do it behind closed doors, you have nothing in the world that you think is morally wrong?

There are things I think are wrong. Obviously. Thing like rape, murder, abuse, etc are absolutely reprehensible. But then there are things in a lesser category from those that while I might consider them wrong (less morally, more wrong as in stupid) I fully support the right of people to do them.

As far as the prostitution thing. Assuming that they aren't forced into it (which as long as it's illegal will sadly not be the case for a lot of prostitutes) I have no problem with people operating this type of business under certain conditions. One would obviously be frequent health screenings and a 100% condom usage rate with no exceptions.

Would I patronize these businesses? Never. But that doesn't mean I don't think they should necessarily be allowed to exist. Besides, prostitutes with health checks, access to medication, and minimum wage guarantees are better than coked out AIDS hookers.

jmog;418431 wrote:You didn't just "ask", your "question" had the assumption laced with it.

Wasn't aware that this text forum was capable of displaying my tone even when I don't write it. I assure you that I didn't have any negative tone in my mind when I was writing that. You won't believe me but it's the truth.

I'm guilty of missing the shift at times, and I think some on this board have missed it as well.

We started out agreeing that what happens behind closed doors isn't other peoples business. (I thought the toilet paper analogy was perfect.) But the shift I referred to is that of those engaged in such private practices are now out on the street with their private lives. Not only are they on the street, they are demanding that this life in private be accepted by everyone else.

You wanna do something in your room that harms you, or do something with a concenting adult, I can't legally do anything about it. But, as jmog pointed out, I do not have to accept that behavior as right. Moreover, when the lifestyle is brought out into the public square, expect backlash.

Backlash for at least one reason... We don't like the fact that the activity is going on, but because it's someone else's private life, we don't get to make that call. So, when it does get brought out, then the noise is made.

So what are you saying there? Gay people shouldn't be allowed to be gay in public or just that you don't like when gay people expect to be more than equal?

I think more than anything, I was just pointing out the shift in the argument.

It used to be, "Let us do what we want in private."

Now the argument has nothing to do with privacy.

I guess that's all I'm saying. No, wait... "That's all I have to say about that."

We have to make ourselves public if we want such things as the legal rights of marriage. I'm talking about spousal health insurance and hospital visitation rights. These are not things that go on in the privacy of our bedroom.

Fight away.

Again, my point was just that the argument shifted, that's all.

I Wear Pants;418443 wrote:There are things I think are wrong. Obviously. Thing like rape, murder, abuse, etc are absolutely reprehensible. But then there are things in a lesser category from those that while I might consider them wrong (less morally, more wrong as in stupid) I fully support the right of people to do them.

As far as the prostitution thing. Assuming that they aren't forced into it (which as long as it's illegal will sadly not be the case for a lot of prostitutes) I have no problem with people operating this type of business under certain conditions. One would obviously be frequent health screenings and a 100% condom usage rate with no exceptions.

Would I patronize these businesses? Never. But that doesn't mean I don't think they should necessarily be allowed to exist. Besides, prostitutes with health checks, access to medication, and minimum wage guarantees are better than coked out AIDS hookers.

I believe I have never stated that homosexuals should not have the right to do what they do, I said I just think what they do is morally wrong.

I Wear Pants;417402 wrote:So you won't be telling your kids about condoms then?

Your exact quote ,had the negative answer already assumed "so you won't be telling..."

I didn't say your text suggested your tone, I said your exact words suggested your assumption.

I Wear Pants;418472 wrote:So what are you saying there? Gay people shouldn't be allowed to be gay in public or just that you don't like when gay people expect to be more than equal?

You just took what he said and twisted it 180 degrees.

FairwoodKing;418633 wrote:We have to make ourselves public if we want such things as the legal rights of marriage. I'm talking about spousal health insurance and hospital visitation rights. These are not things that go on in the privacy of our bedroom.

I noticed you skipped right over all the requests for a link to a story of a person getting fired here in Ohio recently, because they were gay.

I have a feeling there will be no satisfying the want. It started out as let us do with as we will behind closed door. The end result is homosexuality as normal. Nothing else.

jmog;418714 wrote:I noticed you skipped right over all the requests for a link to a story of a person getting fired here in Ohio recently, because they were gay.

I don't think FWK has the answer for this. FWK still has not established a solid foundation of his claims.

Bio-Hazzzzard;418757 wrote:I don't think FWK has the answer for this. FWK still has not established a solid foundation of his claims.

But he KNOWS someone who is gay and...well, we can all assume he knows someone recently in Ohio that got fired, it couldn't possibly be a story he heard...lol

jmog;418711 wrote:You just took what he said and twisted it 180 degrees.

Read the last part after the "or" again. If it was the after or part then he was/is being perfectly reasonable. Just doesn't like people feeling entitled to special treatment. Although he already answered plenty well.

Stop thinking I'm assuming something until I put it as a statement. The questions that your acting like I have built assumptions into are done for the purposes of getting specific answers that might not be answered if I asked in a less direct (or in your view non assuming) way.

Just trying to make it so I don't have to either string together twenty questions. Me saying "so you think xxx then?" and getting the response of "well, no. I just think that ...." is a lot easier that asking thirty questions to clarify a position.

You guys are allowed to have different opinions than me and I'm not really trying to change opinions but I'm going to ask questions that will sometimes be really specific/pointed.

So what is FWK claim about getting fired/not hired?

jmog;418714 wrote:I noticed you skipped right over all the requests for a link to a story of a person getting fired here in Ohio recently, because they were gay.

You people amaze me. Do you actually think that these firing events get publicized? If a gay man or lesbian gets fired for being gay in a state that doesn't protect our rights, it never makes the newspaper or TV. Therefore, there are no links. I have been out of the closet for more than 30 years and I have known hundreds and hundreds of gay people. I know of many cases where gays have been fired when their employers found out they were gay and I know of many more cases where the gay people were terrified of being caught. I only know of one time when the situation firing was publicized and that was because the man in question (a friend of mine) is a world-class choral conductor who has chosen to make his situation very public. Even in his case, he had no recourse through the courts.

Since you want links, here's one for you. An historical marker honoring a lesbian was destroyed in gay-friendly Dayton recently.

http://www.whiotv.com/news/24197732/detail.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss

It will cost $1000 to repair the marker. I'm just glad that it's not common knowledge that Baron von Steuben was gay. If the world finds out about that, every sign in Steubenville will be damaged.

FairwoodKing;419801 wrote:You people amaze me. Do you actually think that these firing events get publicized? If a gay man or lesbian gets fired for being gay in a state that doesn't protect our rights, it never makes the newspaper or TV.

Minority groups will always gain media attention because it sells. FWK I don't approve of homosexuality, however, the freedom of choice is free for everyone. I personally think that you are to worried about what you think will happen. If gay is your thing that is your freedom, go to Ohio and don't stir up a mess of trouble anyone would find themselves in a mess if they push an issue to far. You will not be fired if you do your employer a good job and work hard at it. JMO

FairwoodKing;419809 wrote:Since you want links, here's one for you. An historical marker honoring a lesbian was destroyed in gay-friendly Dayton recently.

http://www.whiotv.com/news/24197732/detail.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss

It will cost $1000 to repair the marker. I'm just glad that it's not common knowledge that Baron von Steuben was gay. If the world finds out about that, every sign in Steubenville will be damaged.

Were they fired from there jobs? That is what your worried about if I'm not mistaken. Yes, you will deal with hate crimes wherever you go a choice you have to deal with.