jpake1 wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote:

sleeper wrote:

sleeper wrote:
[size=x-large]And seriously, Kobe has "it"? What happens when Kobe doesn't have Gasol or prime Shaq? Can't get out of the first round.[/size]

I bet that Jordan didn't have "it" either because he needed Scottie, right? What happens when LeBron has the best regular season team in the NBA? Can't get within a game of the finals. A game like this could go on and on and on. Kobe has proven many times that he has "it" when it matters most. LBJ still has to prove that he has "it" when it matters most. It won't be proven until he's got the gold around his finger. His time will come.

If Lebron doesn't have it, then neither does Kobe. I'm sorry, but you cannot have it both ways, Kobe wouldn't be shit without Prime Shaq or Gasol and you know it. Whether or not its justified that you need more than 1 player to win a championship, you cannot on one hand bash Lebron with not having a useless intangible when Kobe has shat himself in the playoffs many times.

looks like im late to the party

lol at sq and sleeper comparing kobes playoff performances with a shitty team to Lebrons performances with the BEST team in the league.

guess how many playoff games Gasol won without kobe, thats right 0

sleeper wrote:

jpake1 wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote:

sleeper wrote:

sleeper wrote:
[size=x-large]And seriously, Kobe has "it"? What happens when Kobe doesn't have Gasol or prime Shaq? Can't get out of the first round.[/size]

I bet that Jordan didn't have "it" either because he needed Scottie, right? What happens when LeBron has the best regular season team in the NBA? Can't get within a game of the finals. A game like this could go on and on and on. Kobe has proven many times that he has "it" when it matters most. LBJ still has to prove that he has "it" when it matters most. It won't be proven until he's got the gold around his finger. His time will come.

If Lebron doesn't have it, then neither does Kobe. I'm sorry, but you cannot have it both ways, Kobe wouldn't be shit without Prime Shaq or Gasol and you know it. Whether or not its justified that you need more than 1 player to win a championship, you cannot on one hand bash Lebron with not having a useless intangible when Kobe has shat himself in the playoffs many times.

Yeah, actually I can have it both ways. You can take that to the bank. Kobe would be a beast without them. He just needed them to get 4 rings. He won't get rings without them. That's the beauty of a TEAM sport. I'm not bashing LBJ, simply stating my opinion. He's the best talent in the game. I havn't seen "it" from him, yet. "It" being there at the very end and handling your damn business like a champion. I have seen Kobe win tittles more times than not when he had one of the better teams in the NBA. I have seen LBJ not even make it to the finals after having THE best regular season record, twice.

2quik4u wrote: guess how many playoff games Gasol won without kobe, thats right 0

Good job of proving the point.

jpake1 wrote:

sleeper wrote:

jpake1 wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote:

sleeper wrote:

sleeper wrote:
[size=x-large]And seriously, Kobe has "it"? What happens when Kobe doesn't have Gasol or prime Shaq? Can't get out of the first round.[/size]

I bet that Jordan didn't have "it" either because he needed Scottie, right? What happens when LeBron has the best regular season team in the NBA? Can't get within a game of the finals. A game like this could go on and on and on. Kobe has proven many times that he has "it" when it matters most. LBJ still has to prove that he has "it" when it matters most. It won't be proven until he's got the gold around his finger. His time will come.

If Lebron doesn't have it, then neither does Kobe. I'm sorry, but you cannot have it both ways, Kobe wouldn't be shit without Prime Shaq or Gasol and you know it. Whether or not its justified that you need more than 1 player to win a championship, you cannot on one hand bash Lebron with not having a useless intangible when Kobe has shat himself in the playoffs many times.

Yeah, actually I can have it both ways. You can take that to the bank. Kobe would be a beast without them. He just needed them to get 4 rings. He won't get rings without them. That's the beauty of a TEAM sport. I'm not bashing LBJ, simply stating my opinion. He's the best talent in the game. I havn't seen "it" from him, yet. "It" being there at the very end and handling your damn business like a champion. I have seen Kobe win tittles more times than not when he had one of the better teams in the NBA. I have seen LBJ not even make it to the finals after having THE best regular season record, twice.

So this "it" is talking about the right team, gothca. Put Lebron on the Lakers you have a dynasty, put Kobe on the Cavs and you have a whiny bitch.

Damn Elbow

I don't know why everyone assumes if you put LeBron on the Lakers then they're all of a sudden instant championship.

Outside of talent, you still need that drive and killer instinct. That's what Kobe has and that's what puts the Lakers over the top.

On paper, it sounds nice. But on paper, LeBron & Jamison & Shaq & Mo sound nice too.

LeBron has shown flashes of that drive, but not nearly consistent enough.

goldengonzo wrote: On paper, it sounds nice. But on paper, LeBron & Jamison & Shaq & Mo sound nice too.

To who?

thedynasty1998 wrote:

goldengonzo wrote: On paper, it sounds nice. But on paper, LeBron & Jamison & Shaq & Mo sound nice too.

To who?

To just about everyone..

thedynasty1998 wrote:

goldengonzo wrote: On paper, it sounds nice. But on paper, LeBron & Jamison & Shaq & Mo sound nice too.

To who?

It sounded and LOOKED nice to just about everyone after the regular season. Based on the roster at the end of the season, no one was expecting to lose in the second round.

Then when push came to shove and it was time to get mean ... the team was just flat out mentally weak. That's why they didn't get it done in the playoffs.

That and awful, awful coaching.

I never understood people saying the the Cavs had the pieces around Lebron.

Obviously Lebron is in his own category, so let's look at the other contendors 3 best supporting players (minus each teams best), and see just how scary Cleveland was:

Cleveland - Jamison, Mo Williams & Shaq
Boston - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
Orlando - Carter, Nelson & Lewis
Atlanta - Crawford, Smith & Horford
Lakers - Gasol, Bynum & Artest (or Odom)
Dallas - Kidd, Butler & Marion
Phoenix - Stoudemire, Richardson & Hill


It's not even close IMO. People overvalued the Cavs roster because they had Lebron and he can do so much. But you take away the best player from other teams, and you can see that the Cavs just didn't match up.

He needs street cred...

Regular season Mo and postseason Mo are very different.

Although he played better, he still wasn't the player we needed.

I honestly have a feeling that Gilbert and Ferry will be working to make a package to get a legit POINT guard, not a scoring first point guard. LeBron needs to handle the ball less and be set up more.

I wouldn't be surprised if guys like Williams and Gibson mainly along with others to get a real PG that won't be a liability on defense.

I really think the FO is upset with the situations Williiams inabilities put them in especially when he wasn't playing well on offense. The same goes for Gibson, although he didn't play he still would have had the same problems on the defensive end against Rondo/Rose.

Just some thoughts.

I think people are making too many excuses for LeBron regarding his teammates. Jamison, Mo and Shaq have all made All-Star games recently.

Maybe he doesn't have that strong number 2, but before Gasol went to LA ... did anyone view him as an elite player? Was he really that type of "Scottie Pippen" teammate? No. He became elite when he joined Kobe Bryant and the Lakers.

Again, if LeBron had that drive that he had in 2007 against the Pistons, then maybe this team would have gone further. Not trying to say everything is on LeBron, because it's not. Again, the coaching sucked and his supporting cast didn't perform either. But LeBron never TOOK CONTROL of his team in the final games against Boston like a true leader.

Yep, Kobe has had his bad postseason performances too, but they were the lower seed. The Cavs, for two straight seasons, have had the number one record. The talent was obviously good enough for 82 games. Why couldn't it play at that level in the playoffs? They were mentally weak and that falls on LeBron's shoulders.

golden, Gasol played on a nobody team in a nobody market.

Any true NBA fan knew he was a legit #2 guy.

LeBron had 38-9-9 against Orlando and he was playing at a high level, not sure what else you want him to do.

goldengonzo wrote: Again, if LeBron had that drive that he had in 2007 against the Pistons, then maybe this team would have gone further.

Bingo! Obviously he had a different supporting cast but that team was hungrier and he was MUCH hungrier. Now they seem to have this sense of entitlement that they can just glide to the Finals. Newsflash...that's why they play the game.

Yes it absolutely falls on Lebrons shoulders when most of the team decides to play like shit. Makes perfect sense.

goldengonzo wrote: I think people are making too many excuses for LeBron regarding his teammates. Jamison, Mo and Shaq have all made All-Star games recently.

Maybe he doesn't have that strong number 2, but before Gasol went to LA ... did anyone view him as an elite player? Was he really that type of "Scottie Pippen" teammate? No. He became elite when he joined Kobe Bryant and the Lakers.

Jamison has been to two all stars, and I will say he's a good player, but not elite.

Mo Williams got the All Star nod basically out of pity and Lebron pleading for him. He was an alternate.

Shaq is no where near his All Pro days. He probably still gets votes today based on popularity.

LeBron had the supporting cast to get it done, point blank.

Lebron has had the best team the 2 past years and he has nothing to show for it. Lebron= overrated. Sq u can try to spin it all u want

2quik4u wrote: Lebron has had the best team the 2 past years and he has nothing to show for it. Lebron= overrated. Sq u can try to spin it all u want

He isn't overrated quik, you know that. Does he lack some things, yes but his bad games are still better than 95% of the NBA. He is just asked to do so much that is bad games are magnified 10x more than other stars.

[size=xx-large]U HATERZZZZZ CAN TALK TO THA HAND[/size]

thedynasty1998 wrote: I never understood people saying the the Cavs had the pieces around Lebron.

Obviously Lebron is in his own category, so let's look at the other contendors 3 best supporting players (minus each teams best), and see just how scary Cleveland was:

Cleveland - Jamison, Mo Williams & Shaq
Boston - Garnett, Allen, Pierce
Orlando - Carter, Nelson & Lewis
Atlanta - Crawford, Smith & Horford
Lakers - Gasol, Bynum & Artest (or Odom)
Dallas - Kidd, Butler & Marion
Phoenix - Stoudemire, Richardson & Hill


It's not even close IMO. People overvalued the Cavs roster because they had Lebron and he can do so much. But you take away the best player from other teams, and you can see that the Cavs just didn't match up.

FINALLY something we agree on. I certainly overrated the supporting cast, along with many others. I think the reason for the best record in the league 2 straight years is that LeBron plays playoff level basketball ALL SEASON. He inflates the wins in a big way. There is a "wins added" stat that LeBron absolutely dominates. He was at like 27 wins added or something like that this year, #2 when I read the stat was D-Wade with 18. It is one of those stats that you can't put total faith in because it's a team game and there are too many variables for it to REALLY be relevant. But it's still a pretty telling statistic if you look at it the right way.

goldengonzo wrote: Maybe he doesn't have that strong number 2, but before Gasol went to LA ... did anyone view him as an elite player? Was he really that type of "Scottie Pippen" teammate? No. He became elite when he joined Kobe Bryant and the Lakers.

Yes, Gasol was elite before joining the Lakers. Why do you think they targeted him? Guess what, he never did shit with the Grizzlies because he DIDN'T HAVE GOOD TEAMMATES. He was still the same player. Him and Kobe together combine to make one of the deadliest duo's in the business--a MUST have to win a title, we've seen it time and time and TIME again, yet everyone wants to ignore it.

hoops23 wrote: LeBron had the supporting cast to get it done, point blank.

Clearly false. Name a player on a team that is still playing that would put up the line LeBron did in game 6 and still lose the game? No one, unless their teammates took a shit--which is what happened to Cleveland. Jamison is probably the best player he's ever played with--but he's only been on the team since February and wasn't utilized properly. On top of that he played like garbage after starting the series off pretty nicely against Boston. Shaq played well, but he isn't a #2 anymore. Mo turned into the playoff version of himself and we all know what that looks like. Delonte played like crap. Andy wasn't up to snuff because of the back injury. The bench pretty much did nothing most of the series and our coach didn't help that by showing the most ridiculous rotations and giving out sporadic minutes. Which is something he didn't do ALL season while we were winning game after game. His whole philosophy changed in the postseason and it wasn't beneficial to the team. The whole attitude of the team changed as well, and that doesn't help either. You don't go from a happy-go-lucky, "have fun" team to all business overnight. They stopped being who they were and tried to be something else.

2quik4u wrote: Lebron has had the best team the 2 past years and he has nothing to show for it. Lebron= overrated. Sq u can try to spin it all u want

I don't have to spin anything. I'm not even going to argue against that. Calling LeBron overrated is pure stupidity. I'll let it stand as pure stupidity and I won't bother saying much so that people don't ignore what you said. LeBron is overrated just like Larry Hughes is Scottie Pippen...

Gasol was good in Memphis but far from elite. I was a big fan of his then and thought he was underrated but I would not have even put him near the Duncan's, Garnett's, or Nowitzki's of the world when he was in Memphis.