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When all is said and done...

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SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:43 PM
That's one variable. But yes, assists come down to your teammates making shots. No one doubts LeBron's passing ability though. Like I said, that's one variable.

There are hundreds when you're talking rings. Literally hundreds of variables.
Apr 27, 2010 5:43pm
R

rip34

Member

55 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:45 PM
sleeper wrote:
It's the nostalgic effect. As people get older, they want the "younger" generations to think that their generation was the best, so they will say "Oh you never saw MJ play, he was easily the best".

Lebron is already the best player to ever play basketball, yeah I know he hasn't won any rings, but if you're looking at pure basketball talent talent, he makes MJ look like Eric Snow, and you can take that to the bank.
You need to lay off the pipe.

Or pass me some of what you are smokin':P
Apr 27, 2010 5:45pm
C

cview

Senior Member

351 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:47 PM
I think it could be Lebron, but someday someone will come along and be even better than Lebron. With the way basketball has become a year round thing for kids at the age of 10 and atheltes getting bigger and bigger at younger ages there will be another Lebron James at some point.
Apr 27, 2010 5:47pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:49 PM
Rings are only a PART of the equation.

I mean, MJ doesnt have the most rings of a player, but he considered the GOAT right now.

That said, LeBron DOES need to get at least 3 to be compared imo. Not by me, but by the general public.
Apr 27, 2010 5:49pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:49 PM
cview wrote: I think it could be Lebron, but someday someone will come along and be even better than Lebron. With the way basketball has become a year round thing for kids at the age of 10 and atheltes getting bigger and bigger at younger ages there will be another Lebron James at some point.
Agreed.
Apr 27, 2010 5:49pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:50 PM
Laley23 wrote:

I mean, MJ doesnt have the most rings of a player, but he considered the GOAT right now.
THIS!

So many people always want to talk rings and very rarely will I meet someone who considers Russell the best ever.

I don't even feel like rings are a very big part of the equation at all. The number of rings doesn't matter, just the fact that you were a champion adds to your argument a bit.
Apr 27, 2010 5:50pm
J

JakeGiant

Senior Member

355 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:51 PM
sleeper wrote:
Quint wrote: I think Lebron will go down as the greatest ever (in my opinion, regardless of how many championships he wins). But to silence the doubters, he needs to win 7 rings. My roommate is the biggest Jordan worshiper, and he always points to the six rings.
Point to Robert Horry, 7 rings = GOAT
I think there is a bit of a difference being the alpha dog, and/or on 1 team(yes, I realize Jordan went to WSH thereafter), then being a role player following the elites around. No?
Apr 27, 2010 5:51pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:51 PM
cview wrote: I think it could be Lebron, but someday someone will come along and be even better than Lebron. With the way basketball has become a year round thing for kids at the age of 10 and atheltes getting bigger and bigger at younger ages there will be another Lebron James at some point.
Sure, someone could be better than Lebron James in the future, no doubt. It's going to take a hell of an athlete but its possible.
Apr 27, 2010 5:51pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:52 PM
JakeGiant wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Quint wrote: I think Lebron will go down as the greatest ever (in my opinion, regardless of how many championships he wins). But to silence the doubters, he needs to win 7 rings. My roommate is the biggest Jordan worshiper, and he always points to the six rings.
Point to Robert Horry, 7 rings = GOAT
I think there is a bit of a difference being the alpha dog, and/or on 1 team(yes, I realize Jordan went to WSH thereafter), then being a role player following the elites around. No?
Rings are rings, afterall, the point of the NBA is to get championships, not try to be the best player.
Apr 27, 2010 5:52pm
J

JakeGiant

Senior Member

355 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:56 PM
sleeper wrote:

Rings are rings, afterall, the point of the NBA is to get championships, not try to be the best player.
Ummmmm, hmmmm.
Apr 27, 2010 5:56pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:57 PM
JakeGiant wrote:
sleeper wrote:

Rings are rings, afterall, the point of the NBA is to get championships, not try to be the best player.
Ummmmm, hmmmm.
I was being CLOWNCASTIC.
Apr 27, 2010 5:57pm
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Apr 27, 2010 5:59 PM
FG%---3pt%---FT%---REB--AST--STL--BLK--TO--PTS
49.7% 32.7% 83.5% 6.2 5.3 2.4 .83 2.7 30.1--Jordan
47.5% 32.9% 74.2%- 7.1 7.0 1.7 .9 3.3 27.8--James
Apr 27, 2010 5:59pm
C

cview

Senior Member

351 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:03 PM
sleeper wrote:
cview wrote: I think it could be Lebron, but someday someone will come along and be even better than Lebron. With the way basketball has become a year round thing for kids at the age of 10 and atheltes getting bigger and bigger at younger ages there will be another Lebron James at some point.
Sure, someone could be better than Lebron James in the future, no doubt. It's going to take a hell of an athlete but its possible.

Oh I agree it will take a hell of an athlete. Some guys are just a perfect storm and I think Lebron is an example of that. There are a ton of people with great potential but they either don't work hard enough or don't have the interest at a young age or whatever. But when you have the combination of great athleticism and size(which is nothing more than the luck of being born that way) then add in great basketball skill, great work ethic, great mental makeup, and just that inborn ability to see things that other people can't while improving and changing yourself year by year then you have the kind of player that only comes around once or twice a decade. I'm 22. In my lifetime I've seen four guys that I think fit that bill. Jordan, Lebron, Shaq, and Kobe. People much older than me whose basketball opinions I respect have often said those four are far and away the best players in the last 20 years and and all are in the top dozen that have ever lived.
Apr 27, 2010 6:03pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:04 PM
Glory Days wrote: FG%---3pt%---FT%---REB---AST---STL---BLK---TO---PTS
49.7%- 32.7% - 83.5%- 6.2- 5.3- 2.4 - .83 - 2.7- 30.1--Jordan
47.5% 32.9% - 74.2%- 7.1 - 7.0- 1.7- .9 - 3.3- 27.8--James
The thread is titled when it's all said and done.
Apr 27, 2010 6:04pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:05 PM
JakeGiant wrote:
sleeper wrote:
Quint wrote: I think Lebron will go down as the greatest ever (in my opinion, regardless of how many championships he wins). But to silence the doubters, he needs to win 7 rings. My roommate is the biggest Jordan worshiper, and he always points to the six rings.
Point to Robert Horry, 7 rings = GOAT
I think there is a bit of a difference being the alpha dog, and/or on 1 team(yes, I realize Jordan went to WSH thereafter), then being a role player following the elites around. No?
Big difference. BUT, a guy like Russell has nearly twice as many rings as Jordan and while he wasnt AS TOP DOG as Jordan, he was MUCH more important than a guy like Horry or even Rodman.
Apr 27, 2010 6:05pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:07 PM
cview wrote: I've seen four guys that I think fit that bill. Jordan, Lebron, Shaq, and Kobe. People much older than me whose basketball opinions I respect have often said those four are far and away the best players in the last 20 years and and all are in the top dozen that have ever lived.
Easily.
Apr 27, 2010 6:07pm
Glory Days's avatar

Glory Days

Senior Member

7,809 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:09 PM
SQ_Crazies wrote:
Glory Days wrote: FG%---3pt%---FT%---REB---AST---STL---BLK---TO---PTS
49.7%- 32.7% - 83.5%- 6.2- 5.3- 2.4 - .83 - 2.7- 30.1--Jordan
47.5% 32.9% - 74.2%- 7.1 - 7.0- 1.7- .9 - 3.3- 27.8--James
The thread is titled when it's all said and done.
well then shit, lock this thread for 10 more years.
Apr 27, 2010 6:09pm
D

devil1197

Senior Member

6,220 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:12 PM
Glory Days wrote: FG%---3pt%---FT%---REB--AST--STL--BLK--TO--PTS
49.7% 32.7% 83.5% 6.2 5.3 2.4 .83 2.7 30.1--Jordan
47.5% 32.9% 74.2%- 7.1 7.0 1.7 .9 3.3 27.8--James
That FG % should be close or even in LeBron's favor when he retires.

Many people need to understand that LeBron is only getting better shooting wise.
Apr 27, 2010 6:12pm
Hb31187's avatar

Hb31187

Senior Member

8,534 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:14 PM
^^Hes getting much better, and if hed stop that stupid Fade away stuff from 3...hed be THAT much better. Never got why a 6'9 player shoots a fade away...nobody isg etting up and blocking his shot
Apr 27, 2010 6:14pm
D

devil1197

Senior Member

6,220 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:18 PM
Hb31187 wrote: ^^Hes getting much better, and if hed stop that stupid Fade away stuff from 3...hed be THAT much better. Never got why a 6'9 player shoots a fade away...nobody isg etting up and blocking his shot
He has honestly stopped it recently, as a RCF poster has noted.

He is stepping more into his 3 pointer and has stayed away from fading, which has resulted in 55% or so from deep in the playoffs. He still does it every once and awhile, mainly when the shot clock is down but its reduced.

LeBron's numbers are only going to get better and they are already similar to Jordan's and even better in some categories.

All he needs are the rings and hopefully he gets his 1st on this year!
Apr 27, 2010 6:18pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:18 PM
Hb31187 wrote: ^^Hes getting much better, and if hed stop that stupid Fade away stuff from 3...hed be THAT much better. Never got why a 6'9 player shoots a fade away...nobody isg etting up and blocking his shot
Risk/reward. Sometimes when he starts fading he gets hot and goes on one of those 3 straight 3's streak. Sometimes he doesn't. I stopped trying to be critical of his shooting form because, well, I look at the numbers and tell myself to STFU.
Apr 27, 2010 6:18pm
2quik4u's avatar

2quik4u

Senior Member

4,388 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:40 PM
Glory Days wrote: FG%---3pt%---FT%---REB--AST--STL--BLK--TO--PTS
49.7% 32.7% 83.5% 6.2 5.3 2.4 .83 2.7 30.1--Jordan
47.5% 32.9% 74.2%- 7.1 7.0 1.7 .9 3.3 27.8--James
makes more sense to compare both through their first 7 years

Jordan first 7 years
FG% 3pt% FT% REB AST STL BLK TO PTS

51 23.1 84.7 5.95 5.74 2.7 1 3.1 31.5

Lebron first 7 years
FG% 3pt% FT% REB AST STL BLK TO PTS

47.5 32.9 74.2 7.0 7.1 1.7 .9 3.3 27.8


Awards

Jordan
1984-85 NBA Rookie of the Year
1987-88 NBA All-Star Game MVP
1987-88 NBA Defensive Player of the Year
1987-88 NBA MVP


1984-85 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1984-85 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1988-89 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1988-89 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (1st)

Lebron
2003-04 NBA Rookie of the Year
2005-06 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2007-08 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2008-09 NBA MVP

2003-04 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)

Jordan Player Efficiency Rating
1984-85 NBA 25.8 (2)
1986-87 NBA 29.8 (1)
1987-88 NBA 31.7 (1)
1988-89 NBA 31.1 (1)
1989-90 NBA 31.2 (1)
1990-91 NBA 31.6 (1)

Lebron Player Efficiency Rating
2004-05 NBA 25.7 (6)
2005-06 NBA 28.1 (2)
2006-07 NBA 24.5 (4)
2007-08 NBA 29.1 (1)
2008-09 NBA 31.7 (1)
2009-10 NBA 31.1 (1)
Apr 27, 2010 6:40pm
jpake1's avatar

jpake1

Senior Member

2,389 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:42 PM
SQ_Crazies wrote:
Big Red Monster wrote: it was Jordan, is Jordan and always will be Jordan.
Everyone just STOP having THIS argument.

It's not who will be the next MJ, it's who will be the best player ever. Jordan will always be Jordan but it doesn't mean he couldn't be #2. He won't be #1 forever, regardless of if it's LBJ that passes him or not.

But I've thought that we're watching the best ever in LBJ for awhile now, but I know that jpake never used to have this line of thinking. Says a lot to me if you're starting a thread on this man, but I can see why. Every knock you ever used to have on him has almost become one of his strengths in the last few years.
I never did, and I still dont have that line of thinking. My thoughts havn't really changed. MJ is the best player to have ever played. But in 20 years, at this pace and into his actual prime, I can see LBJ being the best ever. That is something I have thought for a few years now. I did used to have some knocks on him, and as he matures, he's turning them into strengths. That's the sign of a GREAT player. I've always been very fair to LBJ. I've never claimed he was something until I actually saw it with my eyes, but I've never once knocked the guy for his talents. He keeps improving, and he's doing it his own way.
Apr 27, 2010 6:42pm
G

Gblock

Apr 27, 2010 6:51 PM
Big Red Monster wrote: it was Jordan, is Jordan and always will be Jordan.
this...

look at jordans numbers for about 7-8 years

off the top of my head it was like 32....37....33...33...31....30.....32....etc....and that was just scoring...jordan is the best ever

lebron is sick tho
Apr 27, 2010 6:51pm
SQ_Crazies's avatar

SQ_Crazies

The Godfather

7,977 posts
Apr 27, 2010 6:51 PM
Well said jpake. We were on the same page there, I just didn't really word it right--I know you still think Jordan is the best. I do too, as far as legacy. I think LeBron is the best that has ever PLAYED, but he doesn't have the best legacy yet. Longevity is a big part of the equation.
Apr 27, 2010 6:51pm