I Wear Pants wrote: Being a parent doesn't have to mean making your kids dislike you though.

Just being hard nosed does not make you a good parent. Good parents can be hard nosed just like more easy going parents can be good parents too.

There are multiple ways to be good parents just like there are multiple ways to be bad parents.

Don't over-complicate this. Not having your child's fling over to spend the night is a perfectly normal rule. Kids are always better off with too strict rules than none at all.

wes_mantooth wrote: The problem is that no matter what, if she wants to see him....she will see him. You just have to trust your kids to make good decisions....especially at that age.

I have to agree with this. I believe wes and I are about the same age, though not for sure. Anyway, I'm 22, and while I would never consider dating a 17 year old, I know many, MANY girls who are that age who actually prefer that age difference. I'm more into girls within a year or two of my age, but I also know many many guys who prefer that age difference too. You have to understand that you are the dad, yes. You've always made the rule, yes, and she has to keep living by them while she lives with you, yes. But take it from experience from a guy who is around that age, girls, especially today are going to get what they want. All your basically doing is delaying the inevitable. I'm assuming she's starting college pretty soon, and if she's as attractive and smart etc. as you say she is (and I don't doubt that), she's going to have lots of guys after her at school, and they won't all be her age. College campuses and towns are full of guys hanging around campus who are 18-26 or 27 years old. I knew many girls whom I was friends with my freshman year of college who were 18 and were dating guys who were 22-25. So while people are making a big deal of the age difference on here, if you look at it, she's not going to magically *poof* change dramatically between now and when she turns 18, and when she does, especially if she moves out/away to college, she'll be in the same situation she is now.

You seem like a pretty intelligent guy on here all the time and I'm sure you've already realized all that. I'm just telling you that you can only do so much. Because if it comes down to it, if you really want to do something bad enough, you'll find ways to do it. I'd lay down your rules, ask them to respect them, and as long as they respect your rules, don't ask too many more questions than that. Because I PROMISE you you won't be there to protect her whenever she moves out and has every guy under the age of 30 (and yes, some creepers over 30) hitting on her, and I also promise you you're not going to WANT to know all the stuff that goes on once she moves out or off to college. I'm sure your parents didn't know everything you did at that age either just keep that in mind; and also realize that as hard as it is to accept stuff like the this, the fact of the matter is that she DOES love you and respect you; BUT she's going to have her own life and her own relationships too. I don't think it's at all unreasonable for her boyfriend not to be allowed to stay the night with her at your place, or visa versa with her at his place and whatever other rules you have- but again as long as they respect those rules, don't push too much more than that. If she shows you she can still respect your rules being almost a legal adult, than you have to show her that you can respect her as a person who IS almost an adult, not a little kid anymore. That's what will drive her away quicker than anything, treating her like a little kid. Teenagers, and especially girls her age are looking for respect; and if she's done all this good stuff in her life like it sounds (such as graduating HS early), than she's earned a little bit of respect, don't you think? If you be firm about your rules, but also be understanding to the fact that she is going to have relationships, and probably several of them and this is just the beginning of that period in her life, then it'll get you miles further than just being the stubborn dad who's not open to anything and refuses to do try and understand her. It takes two people to get along, so your cooperation, not your stubborness, is needed just as much as her cooperation is needed if you guys are going to be able to find a situation that works best for you both.

I know this is a book, and I'm sorry but I hope that helps.

Stiffman wrote: I'd have a fit! I have 3 daughters. Only one has brought a boyfriend to my house before the age of 18 and the same one has brought a boyfriend since. My youngest turned 18 last month. She was staying with me since January, but I sent her back to her mom. Her mom let her get tattoos and I don't approve of that yet. I told her she can do all she wants to do when she's taking care of herself. Right now, she's driving the car I bought and going to school on my money. As long as I'm paying, I'm making the decisions. I run my house and since she opted to do things against my rules, so she's gone. I've told her many times that my role in life is not to be her friend, but to be her parent. If being a parent forces me to lose her, then so be it. But I don't fear that. I've talked to her since then, so she's ok. I do know her mom is probably giving her carte blanche and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets another tattoo to spite me, but that's something she'll have to live with.

Parent your kids....don't be friends with them.

Sorry to tell you, but parents like you are the reason a lot of kids leave home early and never finish school or never reach the full potential of what they would have done had they had a had someone who took a little more time to care and a little less time to be billy badass. One of my best friends had a father just like you, and he told him to shove his house, and all his rules, right up his ass and left home when he was 15 and has never been back, called, written or made contact with his dad since and has ZERO interest to do so. Now luckily my friend had a good head on his shoulders and DID finish high school, and is now in college about to graduate. And guess who's taking care of Billy "the dad" badass when he gets older? Nobody. Because he was too busy making rules instead of caring about his kids when they were growing up, so his kid isn't going to care about him when he gets older.

Your role as a parent is to do WHATEVER is necessary within your physical, mental, emotional and financial means to give your kid the best chance you can give them go make the most out of their life. Sometimes the situation DOES call for you to be a parent. But more often than not, especially when your kids are in their teens, it calls for you to be a friend. A lot of kids go through times growing up where they feel like no one is their friend or cares about them, which is why a lot of kids HATE their parents growing up; because their parents don't act like they care either...i.e. "parent your kids, don't be friends with them". You'd find that your kids would love and respect you a lot more if you'd love and respect them a little.

And no offense dude, but I honestly hope that you don't have the same philosophy towards women as you do with your kids: "Right now, she's driving the car I bought and going to school on my money. As long as I'm paying, I'm making the decisions. I run my house and since she opted to do things against my rules, so she's gone." So if you were married and your wife didn't work, was essentially driving a car your income bought, and doing things on "your" money, you make all the decisions? Amazed that you're divorced.

Apple-not to sound like an ass, but when your daughter turns 18, there wont be much you can do when it comes to dating.

There is a place I would go if I was dating a 17 year old. Its called jail. I am 24, and I teach, and seriously, that just wouldn't work. If your daughter was 24 and he was 31, no issue, but seriously, not happening now.

I don't care the age it would not happen in my house. I agree with the earlier poster who said there would be no discussion.

It's a respect issue and they would not be spending the night together in my house.

friendfromlowry wrote:

I Wear Pants wrote: Being a parent doesn't have to mean making your kids dislike you though.

Just being hard nosed does not make you a good parent. Good parents can be hard nosed just like more easy going parents can be good parents too.

There are multiple ways to be good parents just like there are multiple ways to be bad parents.

Don't over-complicate this. Not having your child's fling over to spend the night is a perfectly normal rule. Kids are always better off with too strict rules than none at all.

I totally agree. I was just seeing a little too much of the "kick his ass" and "they'll do what the hell I say or they'll not be in MY house" for my liking.

Red Skin Pride,

The example you made about your friend is not the general rule of things.

When I was growing up and still a teenager, I would never have pull the stunt of sneaking a b/f over and having him stay the night. My mother would have kicked my ass seven ways to Sunday and then would have called my Dad and filled him in on what was going on (they divorced). And rightfully so. My brothers would never disrespect my parents house in that manner either. Not even for a minute. About the worse thing they did as teenagers was farting at the dinner table and laughing about it. (ewww)
There's pushing the limits and breaking rules, and then there's breaking the rules.
And guess what? I'm taking care of my mother/stepfather right now.
Unlike your friend I appreciate the fact that my mother wasn't "my friend" when I wanted her to be. It was a "her house, her rules" scenario but I never stopped loving her. Were there times when I didn't like her? Sure, but that's life and I got over it. She prepared me for a life where sometimes you get your feelings hurt, sometimes circumstances aren't fair, and that sometimes you have to give up some things you don't want to, in order to have other things . I was never the petulant child who thought that my mother didn't like, love or want me. I also never thought that she "owed" me anything, much less her friendship.

I agree with Stiffman - if his child wants him to buy them a car and/or send them to college, then yes, the parent has leadway to expect certain behaviors. In effect, it is a give and take.

I expect certain behaviors from my kids and I am not buying them a car or sending them to college. I am giving them food, clothing and shelter for a couple decades.

Red_Skin_Pride wrote:

Stiffman wrote: I'd have a fit! I have 3 daughters. Only one has brought a boyfriend to my house before the age of 18 and the same one has brought a boyfriend since. My youngest turned 18 last month. She was staying with me since January, but I sent her back to her mom. Her mom let her get tattoos and I don't approve of that yet. I told her she can do all she wants to do when she's taking care of herself. Right now, she's driving the car I bought and going to school on my money. As long as I'm paying, I'm making the decisions. I run my house and since she opted to do things against my rules, so she's gone. I've told her many times that my role in life is not to be her friend, but to be her parent. If being a parent forces me to lose her, then so be it. But I don't fear that. I've talked to her since then, so she's ok. I do know her mom is probably giving her carte blanche and I wouldn't be surprised if she gets another tattoo to spite me, but that's something she'll have to live with.

Parent your kids....don't be friends with them.

Sorry to tell you, but parents like you are the reason a lot of kids leave home early and never finish school or never reach the full potential of what they would have done had they had a had someone who took a little more time to care and a little less time to be billy badass. One of my best friends had a father just like you, and he told him to shove his house, and all his rules, right up his ass and left home when he was 15 and has never been back, called, written or made contact with his dad since and has ZERO interest to do so. Now luckily my friend had a good head on his shoulders and DID finish high school, and is now in college about to graduate. And guess who's taking care of Billy "the dad" badass when he gets older? Nobody. Because he was too busy making rules instead of caring about his kids when they were growing up, so his kid isn't going to care about him when he gets older.

Your role as a parent is to do WHATEVER is necessary within your physical, mental, emotional and financial means to give your kid the best chance you can give them go make the most out of their life. Sometimes the situation DOES call for you to be a parent. But more often than not, especially when your kids are in their teens, it calls for you to be a friend. A lot of kids go through times growing up where they feel like no one is their friend or cares about them, which is why a lot of kids HATE their parents growing up; because their parents don't act like they care either...i.e. "parent your kids, don't be friends with them". You'd find that your kids would love and respect you a lot more if you'd love and respect them a little.

And no offense dude, but I honestly hope that you don't have the same philosophy towards women as you do with your kids: "Right now, she's driving the car I bought and going to school on my money. As long as I'm paying, I'm making the decisions. I run my house and since she opted to do things against my rules, so she's gone." So if you were married and your wife didn't work, was essentially driving a car your income bought, and doing things on "your" money, you make all the decisions? Amazed that you're divorced.

QFT nicely said. some people just don't get this point of view. I've seen it time and time again, that kids with less strict parents usually turn out better. They are not trying to rebel or do things just outta spite like a previous post was saying.

JTizzle wrote: I've seen it time and time again, that kids with less strict parents usually turn out better.

You can't remotely make that case other than with "I've seen".

I just did! Yes you can make that point doesn't real life experience out weigh theory or thought. I can't speak for the whole country but if it seams to work in my small town of 30,000, might be the same across the board.

JTizzle wrote: I just did!

No, you didn't. You said you've seen cases. Well, I've seen a billion times more cases where the opposite is true. See how that works? There's this recent invention called evidence. Do you have any?

The other issue is that discussions on subjects like these devolve into black and white (either the parent is mini-Hitler or says "do whatever the hell you want"). There's a whole world of gray. Kids need rules. In spite of any protests they may make to the contrary, kids want rules. As they get older, there would naturally be less rules and more freedom. In my house, a 17 year old seeing a 24 year old would be against the rules and would not happen.

No shit kids need rules, I know this what I am saying is there is a fine line between being strict and being "Hitler". I don't believe the parent can really control the kid(s) on how they act. Everyone is different and responds to authority in various ways, I truly believe a child is born with a certain personality and will grow with this said personality. In my opinion you just better hope your child listens or your in for a world of trouble. But kids are kids as adults how do we learn the most, from our mistakes and not trying to make the same ones.

I hate to break it to ya but your rule would most likely be broken behind your back. Now would that make you feel better not knowing they were disobeying? Or would you rather say it's your life son or daughter you have to live with the end result.

I had three bothers we all turned out different, same parenting techniques. I know someone else with three kids all turned out different. I just think it's more in the DNA of a child than the parenting skills.

JTizzle wrote:
I hate to break it to ya but your rule would most likely be broken behind your back. Now would that make you feel better not knowing they were disobeying? Or would you rather say it's your life son or daughter you have to live with the end result.

So since it's possible, even probable, that kids will disobey the rules, it follows that a parent shouldn't bother? That's like saying since there's crime, it's obvious that there's no point in having laws.

How I would feel is of no consequence. My job is to try to raise my children to be good people. That includes lots of love, lots of time, and a set of rules. That rules are sometimes broken does not somehow mean that rules are a bad idea, in fact, kids testing the rules is a normal part of the process.

Apple wrote: Got home this morning and found my 17 year old daughter asleep in bed with her 24 yo bf.

My daughter is attractive and has a good head.


This is probably what attracts the 24 year old pervert.

Meet with your daughter to tell her how much you love her but how disappointed you are in her behavior. Set down rules for behavior when she stays at your place. Then have an uncomfortable session of give and take with the 24 year old.

See if your daughter likes hanging out with a 24 year old boyfriend who has no penis.

One more point and I'm done, Anyone ever think how hard it is to tell the age of some of these girls. Sometimes these 17 year old girls look and dress like they're 22. There bodies are more filled out then when I was in school ten years ago. These days it's very hard to tell if a woman is 18 or 25.

We definitely have rules at my house, and my daughter knows that boys are not allowed to stay over. A problem is that her mom has the attitude that they're going to be having sex anyway, so she allows her bf to stay over. Now, I'm the bad guy because I don't allow it.

The same thing happened with my older son and cigarettes. She let him smoke and even let him bum them off of her, while I didn't allow it any where on the property until he turned 18, then only outside. I stuck to my guns with my son and I'm sticking to my guns with my daughter. I understand that the rules will change slightly after this summer when she turns 18, however, there will still be rules that she will need to follow and respect.

JT,

I don't know if it's because they're bodies are filled out more. I think the clothing is skimpier and cut differently - accentuating the form.
But, I will agree that with the whole emo thing with everybody looking like a cartoon, it would be hard to discern age.

Apple wrote: We definitely have rules at my house, and my daughter knows that boys are not allowed to stay over. A problem is that her mom has the attitude that they're going to be having sex anyway, so she allows her bf to stay over. Now, I'm the bad guy because I don't allow it.

The same thing happened with my older son and cigarettes. She let him smoke and even let him bum them off of her, while I didn't allow it any where on the property until he turned 18, then only outside. I stuck to my guns with my son and I'm sticking to my guns with my daughter. I understand that the rules will change slightly after this summer when she turns 18, however, there will still be rules that she will need to follow and respect.

And that's good. You don't seem to be out of line or one of the people who take the hard nosed thing too far. Your concerns and rules seem to be legitimate.

Not that it's my place to tell anyone what is or isn't a good or okay rule as far as parenting goes.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

JTizzle wrote:
I hate to break it to ya but your rule would most likely be broken behind your back. Now would that make you feel better not knowing they were disobeying? Or would you rather say it's your life son or daughter you have to live with the end result.

So since it's possible, even probable, that kids will disobey the rules, it follows that a parent shouldn't bother? That's like saying since there's crime, it's obvious that there's no point in having laws.

How I would feel is of no consequence. My job is to try to raise my children to be good people. That includes lots of love, lots of time, and a set of rules. That rules are sometimes broken does not somehow mean that rules are a bad idea, in fact, kids testing the rules is a normal part of the process.

No, but there are some cases where it's not worth the trouble of worrying about people breaking said law and spending the time, effort, and money to fine them or jail them.

Drugs and seat belts are two areas that I think fit that description.

JT- my daughter falls right into this category, and CenterBHSFan, she prefers to wear tight fitting skimpy clothes. But not emo!!! ha! She does not look her age and she has always acted more mature. She's always been way ahead of the curve and disinterested when it comes to guys her own age.

Growing up in a strict household, I don't think it's just the strict rules that cause the reactions, it's being rewarded for showing your maturity or not that causes issues. In my household growing up my parents were pretty strict, but as I, and my sister before me, got older, and took on more responsibility and showed more maturity, the more my parents lightened up. My sister and I both lived there till we graduated high school, then went off to college.

My cousins on the other hand, my uncle was really strict with them their whole lives and never budged one bit, he was grounding 17 year olds for petty stuff that an 8 yr old would get grounded for (getting caught cussing). Every single one of them let home the minute they turned 18 or graduated. All of them were really smart and had ACT scores in the high 20's low 30's, but if they couldn't get scholarships they would just go into the military.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you don't show that you respect the child's maturity, they won't respect your rules, no matter how strict or lax they are. In other words, it's a "pick your battles" kind of thing. If they want some more ear piercings and also want their boyfriend to sleep over, I think you let them get a new piercing but say no way to the bf

I am not quite understanding what her age, her mother's rules and her maturity or appearance has to do with your decision. It's seems to me that it would be very disrespectful to act in the manner you suggested in your home when you have made it clear that your request is otherwise.

Isn't that the crux of the situation?

Apple wrote: JT- my daughter falls right into this category, and CenterBHSFan, she prefers to wear tight fitting skimpy clothes. But not emo!!! ha! She does not look her age and she has always acted more mature. She's always been way ahead of the curve and disinterested when it comes to guys her own age.

If she's going to be with older dudes at least try to get her with a senator or executive or something.