Con_Alma wrote: If only two kids in junior high wrestled last year and this year there were four it grew 100%..possibly faster than any other sport yet still made up less than one percent of the population....hypothetically of course.

Your hypothetical fails to factor in population change.
(The statistic likely does also.)

also, the claimed fact was that:
"wrestling is statistically one of the fastest growing youth, middle school and high school sports in the country EVERY year"

Eventually, even if only growing by 1 kid EVERY year, (since when? the beginning of time?), you pass 1% of the population.

It is an exaggerated claim. (also known as a "Lie")

bravesman wrote:
High School wrestling has grown steadily since 1991. The number of High School teams grew during the same period. Many states are reporting record attendance at state wrestling tournaments and USA Wrestling, the national governing body for the sport, has had their total membership grow during the same time period. Add on Women's high school wrestling growing dramatically during the same time period an you have increase, the opposite of your claim. Prove me wrong, you are the district attourney...

I am all for creating opportunities for new comers. We call those freshman teams. As for the guys ready for our schedule of Medina, North Canton, Top Gun, and State Duals, they would all prefer a 107, ask them... The bottom line is the gap between 103 and 112 is too much.
I think the issue here is more about your petty personal vendetta with me, but I could care less. Bottom line, what are you going to do next year if your son comes in at a lean mean 108/109??? Do you want to send him up where he sees guys who realisticaly a weight class bigger at 112 and eventually 114 or wrestle a 107 where he could be more successful??? That day could realistically come this year or next...

Vendetta? You have no idea what it is for me to have a Vendetta against someone. Apparently, you've been listening to the rumor mongers again.

EDIT - Rumor/slander/whatever you want to call it. Doesn't belong here! Fab1b

I do tire of you repeatedly bringing up my son. (who you know nothing about - The proposed new weight classes would actually probably benefit him.)

Look back over the years. This conversation comes up every year. As a fan of the sport, I have joined in that conversation every year, and my position has not change, even while my son's weight has changed.
(Of course, my additions to the conversation, haven't been while being paid by the people's taxes - like yours have been. )

NOW, back to the conversation at hand. my question isn't whether the number of kids wrestling has grown, but whether that growth has been in proportion to the growth of the population

"Removed from original post - Fab1b"

This is not true. Actually, "Libel" is the defamation of an individual's or an entity's character which is published in a written medium.

I used to read this thread for thought provoking material based on current/changing weight classes. Now I read it for the comedy!!! Am I alone on this!?

Keep it up guys... I'm enjoying.

Are you entertained?!

Yes!

Keep it going. Soon this will turn into one of those yappi threads talking about Moeller and Stephan Myers Dad.

Actually, intertwined with the jabs, are excellent points from both perspectives. I think - FOR ME - that that is the difference. Both have great points, but it gets better with every post.

Shoot & Sprawl,

Get over yourself!! Last I checked you were not involved with "our" program, and I hope that you never are!! For someone so educated as yourself, you would think that you would know what history counts as. A history of hazing huh? Please fill me in, as I would like to know. I have been affiliated with "our" program in some capacity for a lot of years, even wrestling here when I was in school. I cannot ever recall "a history of hazing"

As for the "salmon", there was a complete thread dedicated to it. I never saw one person on there complain about it. It is harmless "fun", and these boys are just that.....BOYS!! And it's hardly obscene!!! God forbid these kids have any fun during wrestling season.

That's the one right that you have as a person is to not send your son to anything that Coach Hammons has. Too bad though, as he is a great coach, with a lot of wrestling knowledge. He might actually learn something from him. Not only that, but he wants all kids in Central Ohio to do well. As I recall, he (your son) did come up and work out with "us" his freshman year. Great kid, and I wish him nothing but success.

EDIT - Same deal guys stop attacking in here stick to the subject!! Fab1b

I will edit it, so that it will fit the forum.....i don't care if you like me or not. you are just a dad who likes to complain a lot about nothing. Yes, that's my opinion. I have spent a lot of time within "our" program, for some guy like you to make up a bunch of "lies".

Last but not least, this was written at 11:15am, while I was at work. Thankly I was at lunch, the one hour a day that I don't get paid for. There will be no theft for me!!!

Now THAT is yappi-esque!

I kid, I kid.

Ok guys knock it off stick to the subject and stop slamming each other, friendly warning or I will delete/edit posts or just lock the thread.

Fab1b

Shoot and Sprawl wrote:

Con_Alma wrote: If only two kids in junior high wrestled last year and this year there were four it grew 100%..possibly faster than any other sport yet still made up less than one percent of the population....hypothetically of course.

Your hypothetical fails to factor in population change.
(The statistic likely does also.)

also, the claimed fact was that:
"wrestling is statistically one of the fastest growing youth, middle school and high school sports in the country EVERY year"

Eventually, even if only growing by 1 kid EVERY year, (since when? the beginning of time?), you pass 1% of the population.

It is an exaggerated claim. (also known as a "Lie")

Yes, I was simply offering an example of how it might be possible as opposed to how it is.

To prove it's truth one would also have to include the growth or shrink of other sports since wrestling is being compared to them.

There are several facets not included in my "hypothetical" . Then again it was my intent to offer a potential, thought provoking possibility.

The question seems to be whether you feel data of the GENERAL student population or the PARTICIPATING WRESTLERS data should be used. Both present compelling arguments.

Coach Simpson's data shows that the wrestling community is missing out on a portion of the general student body. He appears to be an advocate of even lowering the weights for the "smaller" guys to even 98.

Braveman's experience and reasoning appears valid and he has had documented lightweight success under the current system for years. He also proposes a home for the "smaller" guys on a freshman team as the rigors of a top notch schedule may be too much. How about a compromise?

Why can't OHSAA follow the PIAA's lead and give freshman the option to wrestle another year of junior high or varsity and just keep the weights the same? The little guys recruited and just introduced to the sport can learn at a slower pace on the junior high level. This would also create mat experience for the undersized 90-105 lb freshman who either sits the bench all year, gets thrown to the sharks coming down from 115, or wrestles a JV schedule that is short on like sized kids anyway. I am not convinced a true "freshmen" schedule works for the majority of programs because of numbers and expenses. Would be great, but I just don't see it feasible in the majority of programs. And lastly, giving the "undersized" freshmen an avenue to wrestle at their skill levels may (and I say may in a wishful thinking manner) help curb the ridiculous current trend of the dreaded junior high redshirt, of which, I would bet over 50% of the parents that redshirted their kids would use the reasoning as "he was just too small to compete".

Just who is Ohio's representative for these types of rule change votes and how does he form his opinions or votes? Is there ever anything publically posted or debated or is this just one person's vote and that is it?

Cthelites,
Well played, sir!

Guys I have gone back and made some Edits to some posts above. This is a done deal please stick to topic. If you want to bicker take it elsewhere like the serious business forum but keep the personal, rumor, attacks, etc...out of the High School forums!!

Thanks guys for understanding,
Fab1b

bravesman wrote: Proposed New High School Wrestling Weight Classes

http://www.wrestlingpod.com/wrestling-news/w3115/

For your poll, why didn't you list the 4th option (Option D) that the committee voted on?..... Option D is "no change"

I'd keep the classes the same with the following changes:

103 moves to 106 and 112 moves to 113

Options B & C eliminate a class from 125-140....just don't see that rationale at all. Those classes always seem to be full at almost all tournaments.

Shankapotamus wrote:
Just who is Ohio's representative for these types of rule change votes and how does he form his opinions or votes? Is there ever anything publically posted or debated or is this just one person's vote and that is it?

Good question.....

The Indiana rep posted on one of the Indians boards asking for their input:

http://indianamat.com/messageboard/index.php?topic=10646.0

It's interesting to note one of his quotes, "If the NFHS votes to change the weight classes the earliest it would be done is for the 2011-2012 season."

Dad4Sports wrote:

bravesman wrote: Proposed New High School Wrestling Weight Classes

http://www.wrestlingpod.com/wrestling-news/w3115/

For your poll, why didn't you list the 4th option (Option D) that the committee voted on?..... Option D is "no change"

I'd keep the classes the same with the following changes:

103 moves to 106 and 112 moves to 113

Options B & C eliminate a class from 125-140....just don't see that rationale at all. Those classes always seem to be full at almost all tournaments.

actually option A was the old weights and the poll should have gone a,b,c,d. I guess the prospect of new weight classes had me so jacked I completely missed that there were 4 choices instead of 3. I will defer to the cut and paste king next time!!!haha

In the mean time I will focus my direct attention on the new doctoral thesis I am writing on sociological discrepencies of growth statistics of wrestlers in contrast to the general population surge. I liked this topic much more than my previous topic of district attorneys that commit libel/slander on high school sports message boards.

I don't like eliminating a lower weight class. Although moving 103 to 105-107 wouldn't be too bad of an idea.

apology accepted...