Shankapotamus wrote: Anybody know where you can get the stats for the average age of a currrent freshman, sophmore, etc....compared to say 1990s freshman, sophmore, etc......?

Even more accurate for our discussion, "the average age of freshman wrestlers." The state should have all that info from the hydration testing. I'm not sure where you could get that info for 1990's freshman.

No idea where to get that information, not even sure if it exists. Who keeps track of stats like that? Kind of makes me wonder if kids are bigger now because they actually are or if kids are bigger now because someone says they are....

Back to the whole idea of "red shirting" though... This is very near and dear to me. My son is in the 6th grade, most of his friends who wrestle are either in the same grade and a year older or the same age and in the 5th grade. It's a shady deal, people who do it have a way of asking you if you're going to do it without actually coming right out and asking you about it. It's strange, I can't explain it any better than that.

It's about like kids that age cutting weight. You know who is doing it, they know that you know they are doing it, no one talks about it much though. I know kids who will be in high school next year who have been cutting weight for so long that there is probably no way they will ever break 100 before next November.

I'm not claiming to know the "right" way, I'm not even trying to say they are "wrong" for doing what they do. All I know is that weight management is not going to be a part of it untill/unless it's necessary, and absolutely not even thought about untill he's done growing or damned close to it, and that he gets good grades and is right where he needs to be socially so holding him back isn't much of an option either.

girevik: He he he... Kind of reminds me of one of the few Roseanne episodes when DJ starts coming of age. Dan Connor, when DJ asks if he "does it", responded the best I've ever heard... "You know, DJ, that's the funny thing about this. Everybody does it, but NOBODY talks about it!" Classic!

Bitterrunner-up wrote: I don't want to get off on a tangent here, and I have no personal issue with the trend as it is within the current OHSAA rules, but does anyone else think the problem with finding 103-pound wrestlers could have something to do with the "junior high red-shirt"? Doesn't it stand to reason that if many wrestlers are a year older coming in to high school, then they're a year bigger?

Anthropologically speaking, a population just doesn't get bigger over 20 years. They can get fatter, but these test were done within the hydration testing, so we're talking about size, not body fat. The average age of freshman wrestlers might explain the difference in 2010 and 1990. Just a thought.

No a population doesn't just change in 20 years. It is a longer process BUT... Look at the athletes today compared to 20 years ago? 30 years ago? 40 years ago? As a population we have become smarter and have more leisure time. With that knowledge and time look at how sculpted and muscle bound the athletes are today. Frames on kids are much much different and "bigger" than 20/30/40 years ago. It's safe to say that all athletes are lifting by 8th grade now. I really doubt that was the case 20/30/40 years ago. Maybe even 10 years ago at least not to the degree today. I can't see a reason why not to add a couple lbs to the bottom 2 classes with all this going on.

As for the height deal I did find this. Pretty interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_height

WGBplayer wrote: It's safe to say that all athletes are lifting by 8th grade now.

Wow, if that were true I'd be a much happier (and more successful) coach.

Bitterrunner-up wrote:

WGBplayer wrote: It's safe to say that all athletes are lifting by 8th grade now.

Wow, if that were true I'd be a much happier (and more successful) coach.

I think lifting culture is defined by school. I can tell you that I got a letter in 1986 from our high school football coach that said if we planned to play in high school we should start coming to the high school to lift. So I did, in 7th grade until I graduated college. And we were not the exception in Canton.

I'm not saying lifting is the end-all-be-all, but it is not a new phenonenom. Now, my dad graduated in 1968 from the same HS I did, and they had one bench and one squat rack for the whole team. Not stressed at all. So I can see arguement for 1960s to now, but not 1980s to now.

People are getting smarter about the redshirt thing now and they are just holding their kids back for a 2nd year of kindergarten. No one realizes it and the kid gets the extra year of development.

Lifting is NOT happening at every school by 8th grade. Dedicated athletes are lifting and working by that time, but to say the average athlete is lifting by the 8th grade is way off. The "average" athlete isnt necessarily even lifting in high school. The good ones are, but there are just as many who dont ever put that time in.

I did say it is defined by school, but I wonder how much occurs. i'd like to hear.

My son is already strength training, he will be 12 this week. They all do some sort of strength training, I started him with weighted objects this year though. I've already been warned about how they are only supposed to do body weight exercises at his age, and for a long time I believed that. I woke up a few months back though.

I think the "body weight exercises ONLY!" zombies have never stopped to think about what they are saying. If a kid weighs 90 pounds and pull ups are acceptable, since afterall it is a "body weight exercise", one has to assume that 90 pounds of flesh and bone somehow weighs less and puts less strain on them than say 40 pounds of steel.

What about playing a game of baseball? They repeatedly throw a weight and swing one as hard as they can over and over and over again.

I have him using a 15 pound weight for conditioning and resistance bands a few days a week. By their reaction you would have thought I was telling people that I have him cycling the roids when I told them about it.

knightflyer150 wrote:I think lifting culture is defined by school. I can tell you that I got a letter in 1986 from our high school football coach that said if we planned to play in high school we should start coming to the high school to lift. So I did, in 7th grade until I graduated college. And we were not the exception in Canton.
...

Really!?!?!?!

we used to always have a couple of freshmen that could make 103, but the last 4-5 years, and probably next year we have had to hit the halls for a kid that could certify at 103. Usually the kid that comes out is very behind in wrestling, strength and in danger of being hurt due to lack of experience. We have lost duals because we have had to forfeit this weight. Our numbers have increased, it is the only weight we have forfeited over about the past 15 years. That tells me its time to raise the weight.

ksig489 wrote: People are getting smarter about the redshirt thing now and they are just holding their kids back for a 2nd year of kindergarten. No one realizes it and the kid gets the extra year of development.

Lifting is NOT happening at every school by 8th grade. Dedicated athletes are lifting and working by that time, but to say the average athlete is lifting by the 8th grade is way off. The "average" athlete isnt necessarily even lifting in high school. The good ones are, but there are just as many who dont ever put that time in.

Well I can say that I was a sub in 4 school districts and all the Elementary P.E. I did have some sort of strength training. I know many Jr high teams that dedicate the first 20 or 30 minutes to nothing but push ups, sit ups, pull ups, and so on. If you aren't doing it, you're crazy.

Even with that being said, your average American... including high school kids... are "Heavier"... (Not sure that word has been used and I didn't want to say fat.) I think it's time for this change to these two bottom classes.

The kids have definitely gotten bigger over the last couple of decades. And an 18 lb jump from 171 to 189 is just too much; it's ridiculous!!! Over the years, we've had some decent 171 and 189 lb'ers that haven't made varsity. But if there was another wt class in there somewhere, it would be great!
Do something like 156, 164, 172, 182, 193, 215, & 290 in the upper weights.

107
116
125
130
135
140
145
152
160
171
189
215
245
285

JonAlder wrote:Do something like 156, 164, 172, 182, 193, 215, & 290 in the upper weights.

That's a GREAT idea! It would make the heaviest high school weight class bigger than the heaviest college weight class...:huh:

Here's a link to the CDC Growth charts. If you study it closely, there's no way you can conclude that 103 should be done away with or raised in any way. In fact, you could make a strong argument for adding 98 back in, and dropping 215 or combining 215 with 285.

http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41c021.pdf

Coach_Simpson wrote: Here's a link to the CDC Growth charts. If you study it closely, there's no way you can conclude that 103 should be done away with or raised in any way. In fact, you could make a strong argument for adding 98 back in, and dropping 215 or combining 215 with 285.

http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41c021.pdf

Are they even looking at something like this? They even added lower weights this year to the OAC because there were so many in middle school. This is going to be devastating to many young wrestlers.

http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41c021.pdf
[/quote]Are they even looking at something like this? They even added lower weights this year to the OAC because there were so many in middle school. This is going to be devastating to many young wrestlers.
[/quote]

No unfortunately...They probably aren't!

International (Olympic) wrestling weight classes

Schoolboys (young men ages 14–15; or age 13 with a medical certificate and parental authorization) competing in freestyle and Greco-Roman do so in one of the following 10 weight classes:
29 to 32 kg (64 to 70 lbs)
35 kg (77 lbs)
38 kg (84 lbs)
42 kg (93 lbs)
47 kg (104 lbs)
53 kg (117 lbs)
59 kg (130 lbs)
66 kg (146 lbs)
73 kg (161 lbs)
73 to 85 kg (161 to 187 lbs)

Cadets (young men ages 16–17; or age 15 with a medical certificate and parental authorization) competing in freestyle and Greco-Roman do so in one of the following 10 weight classes:
39 to 42 kg (86 to 92 lbs)
46 kg (101 lbs)
50 kg (110 lbs)
54 kg (119 lbs)
58 kg (128 lbs)
63 kg (139 lbs)
69 kg (152 lbs)
76 kg (167 lbs)
85 kg (187 lbs)
85 to 100 kg (187 to 220 lbs)

http://aauwrestling.net/Rules/AgeWeightClass.aspx

for those born in 1991, 1992, or 1993, AAU has the current weights plus the 98 pound weight class.

for those born in 1994 or 1995, AAU has the current weights plus weight classes for 99, 91, and 84 pund weight classes.

TIME FOR SOME HIGH SCHOOL COACHES TO SEE BEYOND THE WALLS OF THEIR OWN WRESTLING ROOM. Try looking in your schools hallways. Kids these sizes do exists.

I saw a quote once (I can't remember if it was on here or not):
"Every forfeit is a kid that wasn't asked to wrestle." There are 103s all over the place. Find them.

Also, I like the current weights, but if they are going to change these weights, do it now and let us know. For Pete's sake, don't fart around until November. Do it or don't.

girevik wrote:

JonAlder wrote:Do something like 156, 164, 172, 182, 193, 215, & 290 in the upper weights.

That's a GREAT idea! It would make the heaviest high school weight class bigger than the heaviest college weight class...:huh:

Thanks for the support Girevik.
And if you want to raise the college hwt class to 290, you can.
I'm just saying from personnal experience that there are big guys out there (290+) that don't want to lose the weight because of college football offers.

The NFHS Wrestling Rules Committee looking only at the population of current wrestlers, rather than the general population is NOT looking beyond the walls of their own wrestling rooms.

If a coaching staff can't recruiting a kid from one's own hallways and get him good enough to survive their schedule, or if a team is just to darn good to have a new wrestler in it's line up, then perhaps that staff should look beyond the walls of it's room, and beyond the walls of it's high school, all the way over to it's junior high a year ahead of time, and get their middle school staff to recruit some 8th graders who are likely to be at these lower weights when they arrive in high school. 80 to 95 pound 8th graders aren't rare. If a team is just that good, or a coaching staff just that inept, I guess they'll just need to plan ahead a bit more, and get more little guys involved in middle school.

Here's the bottom line for me, the NFHS Wrestling Rules Committee and coaches in general should be about the business of Growing the sport of Wrestling. That is, they should be about attempting to increase the number of participants and attempting to increase the number opportunities for participants to be involved in the sport.
Increasing minimum weight classes will decrease the opportunity for a significant number of smaller students to participate in the sport. Telling a 98 pound kid that in order to participate, he has to give up 10 pounds in size to his opponent, discourages that kid from participating in the sport.
Look at the History of Wrestling in our State. Many of the greatest ever started their high school careers at 98 and 103 pound weight classes. Giving smaller (which often means younger) wrestlers these opportunities is one of the reasons our State is among the best wrestling states in the Nation. What’s the real impact of decreasing these opportunities?
All around this country wrestling programs are getting the axe. We all wring our hands and blame title 9, but we need to blame our own organizations. Instead of looking to involved more people in our sport, so that it is more popular, and more profitable, and therefore, less likely to get axed; our organizations only look at numbers for those already involved, and think up ways to reduce the opportunities for significant percentages of the high school population to having any meaningful place in the sport.

Like I said, it’s a problem of “limited vision”

bravesman wrote: ...
-Not everybody in the general population wrestles, it is actually less than 1%.
...

-They do, wrestling is statistically one of the fastest growing youth, middle school and high school sports in the country every year.

Please explain how both these statements can be true. :huh:

If only two kids in junior high wrestled last year and this year there were four it grew 100%..possibly faster than any other sport yet still made up less than one percent of the population....hypothetically of course.