posted by jmog

The problem is that most people on the left do not even realize how far left many of them have gone on this issue (the far right as well).

The left always points to Europe as the great bastion of hope yet nearly every country in Europe had far stricter abortion laws than the US before RvW was overturned.

If the Rs proposed European rules, which for most countries is 15 weeks and nothing past that unless there is literally a mother dying, the Ds would shoot it down in 1 second as "Draconian" and "Dark ages".

Too many Ds want abortions up to and even after birth, which is rather insane, quite frankly as insane as making a 10 year old rape victim give birth. They don't see that as a problem though, vast majority of Rs do see the 10 year old rape victim as a problem and I can bet the definition of "health of mother" gets really clear due to this case.

That may be true of the Ds, but you are completely overlooking my post about the state of Ohio. 

6 weeks is the law and not changing and an out right ban is very likely. 

The Rs are not going to propose 15 weeks because they believe in 6 weeks or out right bans. 

It seems the vast majority of people believe abortion should be allowed but limited,but our elected representatives think it should be allowed with zero restrictions or not allowed at all with only a narrow restriction.

I think I saw where the house (D’s) is going to put a bill forward today on abortion, but I think they left it open until 24 weeks, which I don’t think has any chance to pass the senate. 

I’d like to see what the vote would look like for a 15 week ban with exceptions for health, rape, etc. Would the republicans be against it bc it’s too lenient, and would the d’s be against it because it’s too restrictive.

posted by iclfan2

I think I saw where the house (D’s) is going to put a bill forward today on abortion, but I think they left it open until 24 weeks, which I don’t think has any chance to pass the senate. 

I’d like to see what the vote would look like for a 15 week ban with exceptions for health, rape, etc. Would the republicans be against it bc it’s too lenient, and would the d’s be against it because it’s too restrictive.

Probably both.

posted by iclfan2

I think I saw where the house (D’s) is going to put a bill forward today on abortion, but I think they left it open until 24 weeks, which I don’t think has any chance to pass the senate. 

I’d like to see what the vote would look like for a 15 week ban with exceptions for health, rape, etc. Would the republicans be against it bc it’s too lenient, and would the d’s be against it because it’s too restrictive.

Considering Rs at the state level are going toward 6 weeks and outright bans, I highly doubt Congressional Rs would support a 15 week ban. 

I highly doubt McCarthy has the support for anything short of 6 weeks and earlier.

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Considering Rs at the state level are going toward 6 weeks and outright bans, I highly doubt Congressional Rs would support a 15 week ban. 

I highly doubt McCarthy has the support for anything short of 6 weeks and earlier.

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

That horse left the barn when Ds were asking to allow abortions for up to a month after birth…

posted by jmog

That horse left the barn when Ds were asking to allow abortions for up to a month after birth…

Where have you ever heard that? 

posted by ptown_trojans_1

Considering Rs at the state level are going toward 6 weeks and outright bans, I highly doubt Congressional Rs would support a 15 week ban. 

I highly doubt McCarthy has the support for anything short of 6 weeks and earlier.

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

Dems have the majority. They can pass whatever they want as long as they agree to it as a party. Let’s not act like they haven’t changed the rules to the game before (looking at the filibuster). Quit trying to blame it on one party from a vacuumed lenses of one state.

A gun control bill just passed, because you had handful of spineless republicans caving in.  I think if threw out 15 weeks you would have enough republicans voting for it.  The reality is the Dems don’t want to present anything that would seriously be considered, because they are desperate to drum up votes. You know it, but you don’t want to admit it.

 Face it moderate ptown, neither party gives a fuck about your concerns.

posted by jmog

That horse left the barn when Ds were asking to allow abortions for up to a month after birth…

What is this all about?

The Dems have had multiple opportunities to codify RvW on the federal level.  The reason they didn't is because they've cajoled women for 50 years to vote for them or risk losing the right, all the while passing up every opportunity when they controlled all 3 branches to codify it.

Now that the SCOTUS has overturned RvW perhaps the Dems will cease with the empty fearmongering and actually do something for a change.  Except they lose control of Congress in 6 months, and then possibly lose the WH for at least 4 years.

And it remains to be seen if the Dems could actually agree on a law even if they had control.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

That is what makes posters on here saying 15 weeks is a good policy odd...that horse left the barn years ago. 

Not sure what you find odd about it.  Polling shows only @12% of voters favor a heartbeat ban.  While some 3/4 of the country favor bans between 15-22 weeks.

Ohio's law is messed up.  That's pretty surprising for a purple state that's not usually into crazy business.

posted by jmog

That horse left the barn when Ds were asking to allow abortions for up to a month after birth…

You act like one side is to blame here...

Come on.

posted by gut

Not sure what you find odd about it.  Polling shows only @12% of voters favor a heartbeat ban.  While some 3/4 of the country favor bans between 15-22 weeks.

Ohio's law is messed up.  That's pretty surprising for a purple state that's not usually into crazy business.

That said, there is slim chance here in Ohio the current law changes unless you vote Democrat.

posted by gut

Not sure what you find odd about it.  Polling shows only @12% of voters favor a heartbeat ban.  While some 3/4 of the country favor bans between 15-22 weeks.

Ohio's law is messed up.  That's pretty surprising for a purple state that's not usually into crazy business.

That said, there is slim chance here in Ohio the current law changes unless you vote Democrat, which will never ever happen on this site. 

posted by like_that

Dems have the majority. They can pass whatever they want as long as they agree to it as a party. Let’s not act like they haven’t changed the rules to the game before (looking at the filibuster). Quit trying to blame it on one party from a vacuumed lenses of one state.

A gun control bill just passed, because you had handful of spineless republicans caving in.  I think if threw out 15 weeks you would have enough republicans voting for it.  The reality is the Dems don’t want to present anything that would seriously be considered, because they are desperate to drum up votes. You know it, but you don’t want to admit it.

 Face it moderate ptown, neither party gives a fuck about your concerns.

I can’t imagine the gun bill stands as is either. Outlawing magazines over 15 rounds (the law said in possession of) is a shit ton of guns. The Dems are now also scrambling to pass an assault rifle ban bill that they also know will not pass. It’s all theater. 

posted by like_that

Dems have the majority. They can pass whatever they want as long as they agree to it as a party. Let’s not act like they haven’t changed the rules to the game before (looking at the filibuster). Quit trying to blame it on one party from a vacuumed lenses of one state.

A gun control bill just passed, because you had handful of spineless republicans caving in.  I think if threw out 15 weeks you would have enough republicans voting for it.  The reality is the Dems don’t want to present anything that would seriously be considered, because they are desperate to drum up votes. You know it, but you don’t want to admit it.

 Face it moderate ptown, neither party gives a fuck about your concerns.

You act like they have a super majority. They do not. What are you talking about?

Also, it's a state level issue, which is a majority of my posts on this issue. 

posted by kizer permanente

Where have you ever heard that? 

Virginia and California legislators tried to pass such laws.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You act like one side is to blame here...

Come on.

Not fully, but they definitely started the “let’s see how radical we can go on this issue” and now they don’t like the other side doing the same.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

That said, there is slim chance here in Ohio the current law changes unless you vote Democrat, which will never ever happen on this site. 

Again, voters overwhelmingly support 15-22 weeks.  It seems a conservative could run with that ONE difference and win.

And, again, I think most people on this site vote Libertarian.  As has been shown more than once.  You keep pretending that's not the case because you falsely believe yourself to be a "moderate".

posted by jmog

Virginia and California legislators tried to pass such laws.

Seriously WTF?  That would be straight up murder.

posted by ptown_trojans_1

You act like they have a super majority. They do not. What are you talking about?

Also, it's a state level issue, which is a majority of my posts on this issue. 

No, I don’t act like that and apparently you didn’t read my post. Reread it again, there are a few key points in there how they can pass a law.  Dems have plenty of opportunities before and now to pass a law.  They simply don’t want to, because they know it’s not good business for their party.

As for this being a state issue, yes it is, however nothing is stopping dems from presenting a law federally to protect abortion rights. They just refuse to bring anything forward to have a serious debate (see previous comment about how it’s not good business for their party). They have much more to lose with a bill compromising at 15 weeks than the republicans do and they know it.

posted by gut

Again, voters overwhelmingly support 15-22 weeks.  It seems a conservative could run with that ONE difference and win.

And, again, I think most people on this site vote Libertarian.  As has been shown more than once.  You keep pretending that's not the case because you falsely believe yourself to be a "moderate".

Yup, like I said in my previous post, Dems have more to lose by compromising with 15 weeks. Republicans can put on a dog and pony show by fighting for 0-6 weeks, but in the end if they “cave” into 15 weeks they would be laughing behind the scenes. 

posted by jmog

Virginia and California legislators tried to pass such laws.

This is the only thing I can find even remotely close to your claim. Sounds like you’re just going off of circulating Facebook memes?

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion/fact-check-virginia-governors-2019-comments-about-abortion-bill-are-missing-context-idUSKBN27D2HL

posted by kizer permanente

This is the only thing I can find even remotely close to your claim. Sounds like you’re just going off of circulating Facebook memes?

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-virginia-gov-abortion/fact-check-virginia-governors-2019-comments-about-abortion-bill-are-missing-context-idUSKBN27D2HL

In other words I was right, the governor and the sponsor of the bill both said what I said, they just later backtracked when they got flack for admitting what the bill would do.

The bill promptly was shot down after these quotes and hearings were made public.

The California bill was Assembly bill 2223 which would make it against the law for police or coroners to investigate any newborns death for up to a couple weeks after birth. 

It didn’t say that killing the child would be legal, it just said if it happened to die while in the mothers care they wouldn’t/couldn’t ask questions.

Which is de facto legalization of killing infants up to 7-14 days old (the days was murky as it was still in assembly).

posted by jmog

In other words I was right, the governor and the sponsor of the bill both said what I said, they just later backtracked when they got flack for admitting what the bill would do.

The bill promptly was shot down after these quotes and hearings were made public.

The California bill was Assembly bill 2223 which would make it against the law for police or coroners to investigate any newborns death for up to a couple weeks after birth. 

It didn’t say that killing the child would be legal, it just said if it happened to die while in the mothers care they wouldn’t/couldn’t ask questions.

Which is de facto legalization of killing infants up to 7-14 days old (the days was murky as it was still in assembly).

Yeah… not at all. Glad you fell for Facebook memes though. 

posted by kizer permanente

Yeah… not at all. Glad you fell for Facebook memes though. 

Congress just had a week of abortion discussions, and none of the Dem witnesses would clarify if they supported abortions through 40 weeks or not. Is there not a limit? I mean they also couldn’t admit if only women give birth either, but still.