do we value the endorsements? I do, and as I see it, Vivek, RFK Jr, and Elon are all people who I personally respect as people who think critically and innovate. The fact that they are in the ear of Trump and endorse him is what pushed me over the edge to support him. Whether or not he actually does any innovating in the office will be seen, but i at least get a chance at change from that side. Kamala, as far as I can tell, has no endorsements besides singers, actors, giant tech CEO's, and establishment bureaucrats and that tells me all I need to know. 

I'm trying to change the direction of our country, less wars, more building industries, less service industries. I want us to build things again, not just generate numbers on a cloud server that we then tell people are equivalent to a dollar amount. 

Perhaps it's because of the industry I work in but when you see the results of outsourcing what used to be 100% USA made materials to China, Georgia (the country), Ukraine, etc. it's sad and alarming. that only about 4 countries can supply materials for me and due to regulations (Obama, Clinton enacted, but admittedly not overturned by Bush or Trump) we can't make enough in the USA to keep the industry going. I should note that I'm not even working on supercritical infrastructure stuff, like nuclear plants or defense materials, those industries are impacted way more severely than mine and that should scare all of us.

So yeah, if Trump does 4 more years of what we had, then I got "got" too bad. But at least I have a reason to believe he may take the country where I want it to go. I know Kamala isn't . I totally understand Winston and Kizer have clearly had a different life experience and they don't agree. But I hope they actually like Kamala and the direction she's saying we'll go under her administration and aren't just voting because it's socially unpopular to tell your friends and family that you're voting for Trump. I know I've had cousins, siblings, in-laws say shit to me about my Trump/Vance signs, and it would've been easier to say nothing, easier still to just support their candidate, but I won't . 

posted by j_crazy

do we value the endorsements? I do, and as I see it, Vivek, RFK Jr, and Elon are all people who I personally respect as people who think critically and innovate. The fact that they are in the ear of Trump and endorse him is what pushed me over the edge to support him. Whether or not he actually does any innovating in the office will be seen, but i at least get a chance at change from that side. Kamala, as far as I can tell, has no endorsements besides singers, actors, giant tech CEO's, and establishment bureaucrats and that tells me all I need to know. 

I'm trying to change the direction of our country, less wars, more building industries, less service industries. I want us to build things again, not just generate numbers on a cloud server that we then tell people are equivalent to a dollar amount. 

Perhaps it's because of the industry I work in but when you see the results of outsourcing what used to be 100% USA made materials to China, Georgia (the country), Ukraine, etc. it's sad and alarming. that only about 4 countries can supply materials for me and due to regulations (Obama, Clinton enacted, but admittedly not overturned by Bush or Trump) we can't make enough in the USA to keep the industry going. I should note that I'm not even working on supercritical infrastructure stuff, like nuclear plants or defense materials, those industries are impacted way more severely than mine and that should scare all of us.

So yeah, if Trump does 4 more years of what we had, then I got "got" too bad. But at least I have a reason to believe he may take the country where I want it to go. I know Kamala isn't . I totally understand Winston and Kizer have clearly had a different life experience and they don't agree. But I hope they actually like Kamala and the direction she's saying we'll go under her administration and aren't just voting because it's socially unpopular to tell your friends and family that you're voting for Trump. I know I've had cousins, siblings, in-laws say shit to me about my Trump/Vance signs, and it would've been easier to say nothing, easier still to just support their candidate, but I won't . 

Very well said.

When you can't get an endorsement from the largest newspaper in your home state (LA Times), a newspaper that has NEVER endorsed a Republican (Washington Post), a newspaper in the largest city (Minneapolis) of the state of your running mate is from, the Teamsters Union (which Biden had in his back pocket), you're considered the "worst VP in history", not even able to make it to the Iowa Caucuses when you ran for President AND the media has to prop you up to the masses because you're SO unlikeable.....there might be a problem. Also a history of 4 years of driving the country into the ground with no true plan to change it, other than "staying the course." Why in the f#ck would anyone vote for that?

Keep hearing this bullshit rhetoric about Trump being "Hitler." Well, part of Hitler's  history was mass genocide/killing people. In the past 8 years, with the open border policies, who has killed more people? I'd say the Harris/Biden regime is closer to this description than Trump.

Well thought out answer. It would be nice if we could go back to producing things again, but with the cheap wages that companies can pay and continue to make profit overseas, im not sure it will ever happen.  Even now the american companies pay the tariff for china and still it’s cheaper than using american labor.  Im not sure if trump will ever be an innovator he seems to want to stick to the past, gas stoves, gas cars, doesnt like solar or wind energy ect...  as far as Vivek im not sure he likes trump at all.  He tried to take the crown and lost and had to bend the knee.  He has no choice like a lot of people, but to support trump in case he wins or you will get shut out.  I agree that I dont think it matters as much as people make it out to be as far as who wins.  No matter who wins it will be both parties stalling and blocking the other, rinse repeat.

Also trump attempted to get all the same celebrities, they just said no, so instead he has scott baio, hulk hogan and kevin sorbo lol 

posted by geeblock

Well thought out answer. It would be nice if we could go back to producing things again, but with the cheap wages that companies can pay and continue to make profit overseas, im not sure it will ever happen.  Even now the american companies pay the tariff for china and still it’s cheaper than using american labor.  Im not sure if trump will ever be an innovator he seems to want to stick to the past, gas stoves, gas cars, doesnt like solar or wind energy ect...  as far as Vivek im not sure he likes trump at all.  He tried to take the crown and lost and had to bend the knee.  He has no choice like a lot of people, but to support trump in case he wins or you will get shut out.  I agree that I dont think it matters as much as people make it out to be as far as who wins.  No matter who wins it will be both parties stalling and blocking the other, rinse repeat.

Also trump attempted to get all the same celebrities, they just said no, so instead he has scott baio, hulk hogan and kevin sorbo lol 

Here's the problem with going overseas, especially China. What if China tried to flood the country with their super cheap steel? Of course I'm assuming they're looking to capitalize financially but what if they put the America steel companies out of business? If we have to rely on only China steel and China decides "we're cutting you off", poof, can't make guns, can't make tanks, etc, etc. Makes the country very vulnerable.

And I have no issue with alternatives such as solar/wind but electric vehicles were a HORRIBLE idea.

i said all that as someone who voted for Trump for the first time in the 2020 election. I'm politically agnostic, keep your regulations out of my life (within reason) and i'll be happy. If Thomas Massie, Mike Lee, or Rand Paul ever ran for national office that would be something that would motivate me to activism. Otherwise, I try to vote for the lesser of 2 evils which is sad but with guys like Mitt Romney being on past tickets there isn't a better way to explain my past votes than just that. 

posted by j_crazy

i said all that as someone who voted for Trump for the first time in the 2020 election. I'm politically agnostic, keep your regulations out of my life (within reason) and i'll be happy. If Thomas Massie, Mike Lee, or Rand Paul ever ran for national office that would be something that would motivate me to activism. Otherwise, I try to vote for the lesser of 2 evils which is sad but with guys like Mitt Romney being on past tickets there isn't a better way to explain my past votes than just that. 

You mention "lesser of two evils." Hypothetically, if somehow both the House and Senate were to be blue, and she was elected, I don't believe people have thought out the pure Hell we'd be in (policies she'd enact). I don't see this with Trump.

As somebody who had been in the work force and grew up pre-NAFTA, I can truthfully say that prices were not skyrocketed. I think that is a fear tactic used to justify NAFTA. I know that Ptown will come and say that this expert or that says differently, but you have to be critical of the politics in play at that time. Experts and published papers have a story to tell which doesn't always give the full picture.

I would love to see industry brought back to the country. And guess what? Owners of big industry made a bunch of money pre-NAFTA too. Not only that, but we saw a bigger middle class, healthier children and more homes with a parent who didn't have to work and be able to raise their children instead of relying on daycare.

I have no problems with solar power, either, as long as it doesn't cut too much into places like Forrest or small farms. 

I also have no fear of nuclear power. Caution and safety going forward with that is a good thing. But fear shouldn't be a deterrent imo.

I'd really like to know why Dems are willing cheerleaders for the exploitation of human beings. AKA "cheap labor". Because exploitation is exactly what it is. 

One of the problems with both Kamala and Trump is that neither are very statesmanlike. Say what you will about her, because sure have in the past, but Hillary Clinton had that affect didn't she?  The two running now just don't have it. One rambles on and on, the other does too just with a tremulous nasally voice.

It would be nice to have candidates with strong moderated voices that made coherent statements. 

(just me being sick of Kamala and Trump)

posted by CenterBHSFan

One of the problems with both Kamala and Trump is that neither are very statesmanlike. Say what you will about her, because sure have in the past, but Hillary Clinton had that affect didn't she?  The two running now just don't have it. One rambles on and on, the other does too just with a tremulous nasally voice.

It would be nice to have candidates with strong moderated voices that made coherent statements. 

(just me being sick of Kamala and Trump)

I’m with you. He is what he is, not sure he’d hold the lead of an important room with other nations….and she can’t even talk.

I definitely want a president that can have the control of the room and speak from knowledge as the debated items are being discussed. Political answers don’t work in those rooms.

Again, just two terrible candidates to actually be the leader of the United States of America

posted by BR1986FB

And I have no issue with alternatives such as solar/wind but electric vehicles were a HORRIBLE idea.

posted by Ironman92

Again, just two terrible candidates to actually be the leader of the United States of America

posted by CenterBHSFan

I'd really like to know why Dems are willing cheerleaders for the exploitation of human beings. AKA "cheap labor". Because exploitation is exactly what it is. 

Both parties are complicit…beholden to corporations.  

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

Both parties are complicit…beholden to corporations.  

Maybe but you rarely, if ever, see the Dems beating the drum for self reliance or build American.

posted by CenterBHSFan

As somebody who had been in the work force and grew up pre-NAFTA, I can truthfully say that prices were not skyrocketed. I think that is a fear tactic used to justify NAFTA. I know that Ptown will come and say that this expert or that says differently, but you have to be critical of the politics in play at that time. Experts and published papers have a story to tell which doesn't always give the full picture.

I would love to see industry brought back to the country. And guess what? Owners of big industry made a bunch of money pre-NAFTA too. Not only that, but we saw a bigger middle class, healthier children and more homes with a parent who didn't have to work and be able to raise their children instead of relying on daycare.

I have no problems with solar power, either, as long as it doesn't cut too much into places like Forrest or small farms. 

I also have no fear of nuclear power. Caution and safety going forward with that is a good thing. But fear shouldn't be a deterrent imo.

I'd really like to know why Dems are willing cheerleaders for the exploitation of human beings. AKA "cheap labor". Because exploitation is exactly what it is. 

I'm all for whatever works and can be built and managed here. There is a podcast I like called Decouple that kinda focuses on the nuclear power generation sector, mainly in Canada but also focuses global power generation developments. We used to do all our solar project hear until we allowed a bunch of Chinese grad students into our MIT programs and all the Polysicilon generation intellectual property made it to the CCP and now it's one of their largest exports, after years of flooding our market with underpriced material and driving all our manufacturing and innovation out of business. 

Wind doesn't work, living with 3 giant windfarms within 1 hour of me and knowing that they will be locked out for 36 hours because there is a WINDSTORM coming tomorrow and the WINDFARM can't take the high WINDS.

And to your other point, I agree, I wish there was a little Obama to Trump. Obama was a great statesman. Horrible legislator, possibly evil person, but a great speaker.

This biggest problem is it’s not 1940.  US companies don’t only sell to US citizens.  It’s a global market and you can’t compete in a global market with cheaper labor rates.  Hell Americans have proved made in America doesn’t matter to them, price does. How would you possibly sell to other countries then? 

Also… spare me the BS that republicans care about made in the US. Couldn’t be further from the truth.   

posted by BR1986FB

Maybe but you rarely, if ever, see the Dems beating the drum for self reliance or build American.

I hear it.  I also know that Americans like cheap crap from Walmart and Amazon.  The cat’s outta the bag there.

posted by Devils Advocate

We’re not talking stupid, we’re talkin insanity here dammit!

It seems that insanity and TDS are about one-and-the-same.

posted by kizer permanente

Also… spare me the BS that republicans care about made in the US. Couldn’t be further from the truth.   

I don't see anybody making the case that this is a Republican issue. I'd bet that there are millions and millions of Democrats who would love to have a more liveable wage. They would trade in flipping burgers for a better paying industrial job in a second.

And can we please stop acting like no American industry never exported to other countries prior to 1993?

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

I hear it.  I also know that Americans like cheap crap from Walmart and Amazon.  The cat’s outta the bag there.

This is a perfect example of shopping according to your cash and not credit.

How many people waiting tables can afford to shop at high end boutiques and Whole Foods? 

THAT is why people shop at places like Walmart. They aren't there for high end silk dresses.

Terrible, terrible lack of understanding.

posted by CenterBHSFan

This is a perfect example of shopping according to your cash and not credit.

How many people waiting tables can afford to shop at high end boutiques and Whole Foods? 

THAT is why people shop at places like Walmart. They aren't there for high end silk dresses.

Terrible, terrible lack of understanding.

I think that is what he was saying. 

posted by CenterBHSFan

This is a perfect example of shopping according to your cash and not credit.

How many people waiting tables can afford to shop at high end boutiques and Whole Foods? 

THAT is why people shop at places like Walmart. They aren't there for high end silk dresses.

Terrible, terrible lack of understanding.

You’re making it a Walmart vs Whole Foods alternative.  That’s a little extreme of an example.

Once cheap goods started getting imported, people adjusted their lifestyle and expectations accordingly.  Wages are stagnant, true.  But people live in way bigger houses, with more cars, more tvs, more of everything than before widespread importing of goods started.  Once that Pandora’s box was opened, there was no putting it back.

Yes, poor people shop at Walmart.  But so do millions of middle and upper class people.  People like cheap, readily available stuff.

posted by geeblock

I think that is what he was saying. 

"like cheap crap"

posted by Dr Winston O'Boogie

You’re making it a Walmart vs Whole Foods alternative.  That’s a little extreme of an example.

Once cheap goods started getting imported, people adjusted their lifestyle and expectations accordingly.  Wages are stagnant, true.  But people live in way bigger houses, with more cars, more tvs, more of everything than before widespread importing of goods started.  Once that Pandora’s box was opened, there was no putting it back.

Yes, poor people shop at Walmart.  But so do millions of middle and upper class people.  People like cheap, readily available stuff.

And mountainous debt that the same people you speak of now want everybody else to pay for, starting with student loan forgiveness.

As a side note, I never buy food at Walmart. Their produce looks like old beat up whores and it just turns me away from all of their foods.

When I go there it's for things like maybe cat litter or toilet paper. Never food lol

posted by CenterBHSFan

And mountainous debt that the same people you speak of now want everybody else to pay for, starting with student loan forgiveness.

That may be a subset, but people like cheap stuff - they just do.