Well I am thinking Futbol and Irish are as logical as I am. Get out of Salem and see what kind of talent is out there. Salem's varsity can't beat most quality program jv teams. Now can they compete with the right guy. I think they can. But good to great talent is miss using the english language.

As for the Sebring guy he has won when he had talent. Not the case lately. So can he win in Salem? Not to sure.

sports_talk wrote: Well I am thinking Futbol and Irish are as logical as I am. Get out of Salem and see what kind of talent is out there. Salem's varsity can't beat most quality program jv teams. Now can they compete with the right guy. I think they can. But good to great talent is miss using the english language.

As for the Sebring guy he has won when he had talent. Not the case lately. So can he win in Salem? Not to sure.

What will Salems makeup be.Running or slow down what will fit the players they have returning.What is Clarks Philosophy defense,offense.What will AAC AND THEN NBC expect in future.
I only say clark because he seems like the logical choice at this point.
I suppose the question should be what will new coach,whoever that may be ,expect from returning players
Can't judge statenment about beating jv teams I would hope they could.
Logically Salem should be able to compete year-in-year out Athletically in all sports but does not always happen

Clark never did shit except when he had an miracle of a group come through. And even then all they did was beat up on a shitty conference. I believe Salem beat them with the '06 crew. Clark's record isn't as impressive when you look deeper than just the base numbers.

And I'm not going to get in an argument where you just assume that somehow based on location a place can't have good athletes. Salem rarely ever lacks the athletes to compete.

SQ_Crazies wrote:
Salem rarely ever lacks the athletes to compete.

Depends what you call competing. For a D-II district title and a good showing at the regional level? Yes, they seldom have the athletes to do that.

It appears to me that the East Canton coach is getting very good play out of decent (not great) players/athletes. That is what you need, along with great organization and good coaches in the lower levels etc...etc...

East Canton had very good athletes for D-IV and had a nice district run in D-III. They could not compete in D-II. And, FWIW, they had better players than Salem.

Salem's athletes could match up with any athletes in the AAC and I will assume most of the NBC also...Its always been the coaching has been inconsistent and the programs havent been run right

or is this a black and white athlete discussion?

tribepronk41 wrote: Salem's athletes could match up with any athletes in the AAC and I will assume most of the NBC also...Its always been the coaching has been inconsistent and the the programs have been run right

Yes, Salem athletes can match up with Poland's athletes (tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Um, yes. They can.

SQ_Crazies wrote: Um, yes. They can.

That, right there, proves my "delusional" comment. How many Salem athletes could have started on Poland's basketball teams in the last five years?

futbol4ever wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: Um, yes. They can.

That, right there, proves my "delusional" comment. How many Salem athletes could have started on Poland's basketball teams in the last five years?

It would be a pretty even split most likely.

ts1227 wrote:

futbol4ever wrote:

SQ_Crazies wrote: Um, yes. They can.

That, right there, proves my "delusional" comment. How many Salem athletes could have started on Poland's basketball teams in the last five years?

It would be a pretty even split most likely.

Wow. The sad part is I believe you really think that is true. I think I was wrong about pitying whoever took the job. Salem, I've come to realize, is different than most other communities. If a coach can win there, he will definitely get his props. I've seen too many other "fans" from other schools rip apart their coaches despite winning (and yes, even winning state titles). Salem will back a coach that wins. Many other places believe that their kids are the greatest ever and are being held back by coaches, even in winning. Salem falls into the former category when losing but will back their coach when winning.
Having said all that, the biggest reason that (excepting some girls teams) the Quakers have not challenged for many regional titles is lack of talent.

SQ_Crazies wrote: Um, yes. They can.

When was the last time Salem beat Canfield or Poland in hoops. This is a hoop thread. I can't speak for other sports because I don't follow them. But really, can anyone remembering them beating those 2 teams? I wish Salem well but it will take one heck of a coach to turn that area around. You have to have talent to win. I don't care how good you are. Year in and year out you have to have a program in place and demand the dedication. For one they don't have the talent as most of the areas in Mahoning and Trumbull. So what makes Salem different. I guess we will see if this new guy works 365 and gets the kids to. That is the only way especially with out 7 footers and great point guards.

Sports Talk, is it because we're outsiders that we seem to be some of the few realists here?

Oh, I'm a realist. In fact, I'm about as realistic as they come from Salem and I'm hated by many people in down for many of the realistic opinions I've had on this site--well, primarily the old site. And realistically, Salem always has damn good athletes. Sorry. I think for the size of our school, we usually have an exceptional amount of good athletic talent. I'm telling you, in football we rarely have a good enough line and in basketball we have terrible coaching from the bottom levels up--aside from Brink but he was here for what? 3 years? Look what that team did.

Like I said, not saying we're a powerhouse, but Salem's problem is rarely ever the lack of athletes. In football, our skill players are usually at least on par with just about anyone we play from the area. There have been a few years of late where the talent was down--but I'm saying USUALLY. Right now is a perfect example. Salem probably has the best QB in the area. Eisel was as good as any WR/DB in the area, size is all that holds him back and in spite of that he still made the North/South game. But I promise you that this is the reason why people in Salem get excited nearly every year--because they know how good some of the athletes are. We just always seem to have a coach who doesn't have a clue.

SQ, I will pose the same question to you, since you claim you're a realist. How many Salem athletes could have started on Poland's basketball team in the last five years?

It's convenient for you to say the last 5 years because most of them are during the time when Salem's talent was what you say it is.

But, realistically, I'm not really sure. It's hard to think about all the names that played, but isn't starting at Poland overrated anyways since they run 10 guys every year?

Anyways, Tom Jesko would have started for them--without a doubt. Jarin Heath, quite possibly. Ryan Benchwick maybe. Like I said before, the class of 05 had no seniors on the team, thanks to getting dicked around by coaches in the junior high system. After that, Salem went through a few years with some down talent but still had some quality players--ask tribepronk, he knows more about those years than I do.

There isn't some magical bullshit in the water in Poland that makes their athletes better than a school of somewhat similar size. We're talking about a bunch of 15, 16, 17 and 18 year old kids--good athletes can come from anywhere. I'm just sayin', Salem rarely has an athlete problem. I'm one to give coaches credit ALL THE TIME for not having the horses to get it done, but seriously, in Salem that isn't normally the case. I'm not saying win state or whatever, just be more competitive than they have been. That's why I was so against the former coach--because he did have the talent. He didn't utilize it at all, every single person in the gym saw that but him.

Are you from Salem? If not, how much do you really know other than what you see in the paper (aka final scores)? Reason I ask is because I played against a lot of the kids you're talking about and we rarely lost because of talent or athleticism. We lost because they were smarter than we were, they were much more prepared, our coaching was always a joke. The guy that coached 7th grade basketball in Salem for YEARS (might even still do it) is an absolute joke of a basketball coach.

SQ, I'm not from Salem or Poland. But, as Sports Talk will attest, I probably see as much basketball as anyone. You named Jesko and two maybes. That's, at most, three of 25 starting spots over five years (maybe Jesko would have started two years). Brink was a great coach who always seems to get kids to overachieve. The improvement for most kids comes in the off-season. How many Salem players play AAU? How often are they at the summer open gyms? There's nothing magical in the water at Poland. Funny thing is, and I mentioned this in a post above, Grisdale is constantly under heat at Poland because of delusional fans/parents. I have a feeling he would do quite well at Salem.

They didn't overachieve with Brink--they got as far as they should have. Which is a rarity in Salem. In 2005 they nearly knocked one of Poland's better teams out of districts and their first 7 were juniors and a freshman.

And I'll call Jarin Heath a definite instead of a maybe. I believe as the PG he led the team in rebounds his senior year of '06. He was a ball player. One of those guys that I said could have gone on to play in college but didn't. He got lots of letters for football.

futbol4ever wrote: SQ, I'm not from Salem or Poland. But, as Sports Talk will attest, I probably see as much basketball as anyone. You named Jesko and two maybes. That's, at most, three of 25 starting spots over five years (maybe Jesko would have started two years). Brink was a great coach who always seems to get kids to overachieve. The improvement for most kids comes in the off-season. How many Salem players play AAU? How often are they at the summer open gyms? There's nothing magical in the water at Poland. Funny thing is, and I mentioned this in a post above, Grisdale is constantly under heat at Poland because of delusional fans/parents. I have a feeling he would do quite well at Salem.

I would say the number of salem kids that played aau aren't great. I know three on the current team that do, but other than that a lot of kids play 2 or 3 sports so there isn't a whole lot of time to being playing aau (especially ones running track and competing at the state level...which is another great argument to Salem having the athletes). Its not like Poland where most of the kids specialize in one sport. Summer open gyms brought out a lot of players in salem, there would be the constant ones who came every time and there would be some there every other. There would always be decent numbers. I've felt its been the coaching for the last four years that kept kids out of the gym. When players would ask to get in there during the off-season, he would tell them to go ask an assistant coach to go in with the player. This usually led to asking that assistant then having to ask another assistant which led to nobody working on their game

SQ_Crazies wrote: It's convenient for you to say the last 5 years because most of them are during the time when Salem's talent was what you say it is.

But, realistically, I'm not really sure. It's hard to think about all the names that played, but isn't starting at Poland overrated anyways since they run 10 guys every year?

Anyways, Tom Jesko would have started for them--without a doubt. Jarin Heath, quite possibly. Ryan Benchwick maybe. Like I said before, the class of 05 had no seniors on the team, thanks to getting dicked around by coaches in the junior high system. After that, Salem went through a few years with some down talent but still had some quality players--ask tribepronk, he knows more about those years than I do.

There isn't some magical bullshit in the water in Poland that makes their athletes better than a school of somewhat similar size. We're talking about a bunch of 15, 16, 17 and 18 year old kids--good athletes can come from anywhere. I'm just sayin', Salem rarely has an athlete problem. I'm one to give coaches credit ALL THE TIME for not having the horses to get it done, but seriously, in Salem that isn't normally the case. I'm not saying win state or whatever, just be more competitive than they have been. That's why I was so against the former coach--because he did have the talent. He didn't utilize it at all, every single person in the gym saw that but him.

Are you from Salem? If not, how much do you really know other than what you see in the paper (aka final scores)? Reason I ask is because I played against a lot of the kids you're talking about and we rarely lost because of talent or athleticism. We lost because they were smarter than we were, they were much more prepared, our coaching was always a joke. The guy that coached 7th grade basketball in Salem for YEARS (might even still do it) is an absolute joke of a basketball coach.

In 2006, I'd be willing to say Salem's entire starting five would have started for Poland. Jesko, Heath, Pierce and Benchwick all would have started, only question mark would be point. I think a young Ben Umbel was starting for Poland then but I could be wrong. Since then, well Salem went through a bit of a talent drought while Poland's excelled.

agreed. at the least you can say is that they are all fine athletes...Heath could have played d-1 football if he wanted to, jesko played ball at BW, Benchwick played college ball, and Pierce played football at walsh.

If we were a little over .500 the last few years with the coach we had, we could easily have been .750 or .800 with the right guy............. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

And it was Jesko's year that we beat Canfield and Poland, and yes all 5 starters were as good and better than anybody they brought.

If we get the right guy for next year, and with the talent coming back, we should win 18 games and make a deep tourney run. It isn't rocket science.

QuakerOats wrote: If we were a little over .500 the last few years with the coach we had, we could easily have been .750 or .800 with the right guy............. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT.

And it was Jesko's year that we beat Canfield and Poland, and yes all 5 starters were as good and better than anybody they brought.

If we get the right guy for next year, and with the talent coming back, we should win 18 games and make a deep tourney run. It isn't rocket science.

I like how you think!