Do other species have homosexuals in their population? If not, would that indicate it is not genetic?

Prescott wrote: Do other species have homosexuals in their population? If not, would that indicate it is not genetic?

I've posted this article before (maybe even in this thread), but yes there seems to be some evidence that there are cases of homosexuality in animals.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

tigerballonline wrote: This is a combination of both. First off all people are born into sin. So a person is born to sin, and being gay is no more a sin than adultery or any other sin. Having sex is a choice, whether it is gay or straight sex. A person who has homosexual urges does not have to give into those urges, and can stay abstinent. Just as a person who is straight may go there whole life not having sex. Believe it or not there are a few out there that have never had sex.

Not everyone believes that people are born into a sin.

It doesn't appear he/she was speaking for everyone. This thread is based on your own views and opinions. What else could tigerball offer but his/her own?

Websurfinbird wrote:

tigerballonline wrote: This is a combination of both. First off all people are born into sin. So a person is born to sin, and being gay is no more a sin than adultery or any other sin. Having sex is a choice, whether it is gay or straight sex. A person who has homosexual urges does not have to give into those urges, and can stay abstinent. Just as a person who is straight may go there whole life not having sex. Believe it or not there are a few out there that have never had sex.

Not everyone believes that people are born into a sin.

True. I was born into awesome, live with awesomeitude and will die just REEKING of the sweet fragrance of awesomeness (and possibly syphillis). The "born into sin" thing is just a way to lure people into providing the tithes, tithes, TITHES that keep churches running. Without people thinking their potential salvation or damnation rides on how well they can overcome all this festering sin they were born with, there wouldn't be a need for organized religion.

I was born into the hands of a doctor, and then into the hands of my father, who promptly passed out and i fell to the floor. Probably explains a lot of things.

Devils Advocate wrote: I myself find it hard to believe that it is genetic. If it were truly genetic, this deviation would tend to "breed" itself out of existence.

It is hard to say what makes someone sexually attracted to another. Everyone had their own little quirks that make the muffin moist or the dick hard. But as far as the sexual act itself, This is a choice.

I say that this is neither right or wrong, it just is.

I could care less what you do with your junk, as long as you do not impose your junk on me.

The thing that puzzles me most about homosexuality is that it is viewed as a deviation. People that look at others preferences and see that these acts do not align with thier own preferences or beliefs call those behaviors an aberration.

Conversely, people that engage in this "choice" are feel attacked for advertising their sexuality. when in fact it should be expected. Hell, if I lived to cook and eat little baby kittens and told everyone, I would expect that every one would treat me differently, I would be different.

So much wrong here...

Margaret Mead, long before DNA was unraveled, found three things present in every society, primitive or advanced: a belief in God or a higher entity; music and dance; and homosexuality.

Certain traits are quite recessive in nature but still have managed, somehow, not to be bred out of existence. I don't see why IF (huge if here) being gay is linked to a gene/genes that rule would somehow be different.

Homosexuality is found in species outside of humans, and since most species on this plant have more DNA in common than different, I'm betting whatever sequence is involved here must be pretty consistent to cross the spectrum like it does.

While the sex act itself is a choice insofar as WHEN and with WHO you choose to have it, some folks simply can't perform unless they are comfortably within their place on the human sexual continuum. So, I would argue that there really isn't any choice involved.

Finally, comparing being gay to someone who eats kittens is terribly offensive and stupid. I think I understand what you're saying here, but you can find a much less offensive and better example to make your point.

I thought gay people did eat kittens?

(Well done on citing Margaret Mead, Writer, someone on whom i've fallen back on in regards to this argument)

if its genetic, show me the "gay" gene, or the gene that codes for the production of some sort of chemical that makes you gay or not gay?....it is not genetic

UA5straightin2008 wrote: if its genetic, show me the "gay" gene, or the gene that codes for the production of some sort of chemical that makes you gay or not gay?....it is not genetic

It's extremely likely that the propensity to be gay is genetic similar to the propensity for being an alcohoic is genetic (the specifics of which have been identified).

Writerbuckeye wrote:

Devils Advocate wrote: I myself find it hard to believe that it is genetic. If it were truly genetic, this deviation would tend to "breed" itself out of existence.

It is hard to say what makes someone sexually attracted to another. Everyone had their own little quirks that make the muffin moist or the dick hard. But as far as the sexual act itself, This is a choice.

I say that this is neither right or wrong, it just is.

I could care less what you do with your junk, as long as you do not impose your junk on me.

The thing that puzzles me most about homosexuality is that it is viewed as a deviation. People that look at others preferences and see that these acts do not align with thier own preferences or beliefs call those behaviors an aberration.

Conversely, people that engage in this "choice" are feel attacked for advertising their sexuality. when in fact it should be expected. Hell, if I lived to cook and eat little baby kittens and told everyone, I would expect that every one would treat me differently, I would be different.

So much wrong here...

Margaret Mead, long before DNA was unraveled, found three things present in every society, primitive or advanced: a belief in God or a higher entity; music and dance; and homosexuality.

Certain traits are quite recessive in nature but still have managed, somehow, not to be bred out of existence. I don't see why IF (huge if here) being gay is linked to a gene/genes that rule would somehow be different.

Homosexuality is found in species outside of humans, and since most species on this plant have more DNA in common than different, I'm betting whatever sequence is involved here must be pretty consistent to cross the spectrum like it does.

While the sex act itself is a choice insofar as WHEN and with WHO you choose to have it, some folks simply can't perform unless they are comfortably within their place on the human sexual continuum. So, I would argue that there really isn't any choice involved.

Finally, comparing being gay to someone who eats kittens is terribly offensive and stupid. I think I understand what you're saying here, but you can find a much less offensive and better example to make your point.

Let me reply to this in an adult manor.
I believe I can do this without calling you stupid or offensive, But your reading comprehension and preconceived notions may make it difficult for you to digest what I write.
There is no doubt that homosexuality has existed for a very long time. It is at least as old as written history. But to describe this behavior as purely genetic is both a cop out and a very uneducated theory.

While Ms. Mead is no doubt well informed on the history of Homosexual BEHAVIOR. There is little to no evidence that a gay gene exists. So far it there has been no such gene identified and there was no way to prove ones existence in her or our time as of yet.

Playing Devils Advocate (pun intended) I would assert that there may be a genetic cause for this, but I would suggest that the majority of this behavior is caused by CHOICE. I know and have known quite a few lesbians and have even quizzed them on why the felt that they were gay. I have found that most of the ones I have talked to could trace their homosexuality back to a traumatizing event. The few men that I have known could not articulate why they were gay. a couple were Bi, but all started out straight.

And finally, I did not compare homosexuality to eating kittens. I was merely pointing out that when behavior is deemed "different", people tent to ostracize them. All the way from grade school up. I will admit that I should have drawn a less offensive analogy, But I found it amusing so I typed it.

Maybe I did not state strongly enough that I have no feelings either way towards homosexuals. I will admit however that I do not understand the attraction. I have never looked at a mans ass and thought to myself "I just have to have that". Homosexuality to me seems to be a preference. not a birth inspired event. I honestly do not get why sex is treated like it is in our society. Everyone does it, and the one that aren't want to.

Big_Mirg_ZHS wrote:
So being gay is a sin eh? I love how christians are not supposed to judge yet thats what they spend most of their time doing.

How is saying its a sin judging? Learn the definition of sin and judge.

Reiterating what the Bible says about homosexuality is not judging.

Now, if he said "all those homos are going to hell and are dispicable" then you'd have a point.

Definitely a choice.

Websurfinbird wrote:

Prescott wrote: Do other species have homosexuals in their population? If not, would that indicate it is not genetic?

I've posted this article before (maybe even in this thread), but yes there seems to be some evidence that there are cases of homosexuality in animals.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

To paraphrase, other species do it to show dominance or get the other sex to see them/like them better.

Kind of like the human girls who will make out just to turn on a guy.

I don't see any mention in there of them picking life partners and completely ignoring the opposite sex, which is homosexuality.

What is mentioned in there is single acts for various reasons....huge difference.

At the core, I suppose I do understand the need for this discussion, maybe...I have to say that I've never really concerned myself with whether it was a choice or not. It changes nothing for me, puts nothing at ease for me either way. My Sister is gay. And it's not like whether or not she chose it, or what have you would have any bearing on any of my thoughts/opinions/feelings/love towards her. So, for me, it's not knowledge that I personally need one way or another. JMO.

[/quote]
Let me reply to this in an adult manor.
I believe I can do this without calling you stupid or offensive, But your reading comprehension and preconceived notions may make it difficult for you to digest what I write.
There is no doubt that homosexuality has existed for a very long time. It is at least as old as written history. But to describe this behavior as purely genetic is both a cop out and a very uneducated theory.

While Ms. Mead is no doubt well informed on the history of Homosexual BEHAVIOR. There is little to no evidence that a gay gene exists. So far it there has been no such gene identified and there was no way to prove ones existence in her or our time as of yet.

Playing Devils Advocate (pun intended) I would assert that there may be a genetic cause for this, but I would suggest that the majority of this behavior is caused by CHOICE. I know and have known quite a few lesbians and have even quizzed them on why the felt that they were gay. I have found that most of the ones I have talked to could trace their homosexuality back to a traumatizing event. The few men that I have known could not articulate why they were gay. a couple were Bi, but all started out straight.

And finally, I did not compare homosexuality to eating kittens. I was merely pointing out that when behavior is deemed "different", people tent to ostracize them. All the way from grade school up. I will admit that I should have drawn a less offensive analogy, But I found it amusing so I typed it.

Maybe I did not state strongly enough that I have no feelings either way towards homosexuals. I will admit however that I do not understand the attraction. I have never looked at a mans ass and thought to myself "I just have to have that". Homosexuality to me seems to be a preference. not a birth inspired event. I honestly do not get why sex is treated like it is in our society. Everyone does it, and the one that aren't want to.
[/quote]

Did your gay friends/people you quizzed know that they were straight for sure? They LIKED the other species? Or did they just think they did because that's what society told them to do?

Just wondering...

My best friend is a lesbian. She thought she liked men up until her sophomore year of high school but was always attracted to women. SHe never had sex with a man, but did fool around and just never liked it. Ended up dating one and hasn't looked back since. She loves the vag.

She says she was born like that. She says she was born like that because, quote "I didn't choose to like/be attracted to people of the same sex as me. Why would I want to live in a society where I don't have the same rights, where some ill minded (granted, some may say it's illminded for someone to like the same sex) people think I should be killed and burned in hell forever?"

Just my two cents.

To briefly answer the original question: neither.

queencitybuckeye wrote:

UA5straightin2008 wrote: if its genetic, show me the "gay" gene, or the gene that codes for the production of some sort of chemical that makes you gay or not gay?....it is not genetic

It's extremely likely that the propensity to be gay is genetic similar to the propensity for being an alcohoic is genetic (the specifics of which have been identified).

okay, then how does gay person pass on there gay genes when they (most likely) do not reproduce?

Big_Mirg_ZHS wrote:

tigerballonline wrote: This is a combination of both. First off all people are born into sin. So a person is born to sin, and being gay is no more a sin than adultery or any other sin. Having sex is a choice, whether it is gay or straight sex. A person who has homosexual urges does not have to give into those urges, and can stay abstinent. Just as a person who is straight may go there whole life not having sex. Believe it or not there are a few out there that have never had sex.

So being gay is a sin eh? I love how christians are not supposed to judge yet thats what they spend most of their time doing.

Does anyone find the humor in this? You call out and judge the largest group of people on Earth for... judging people. Nothing like bringing out the broad brush to criticize, eh?

UA5straightin2008 wrote:

queencitybuckeye wrote:

UA5straightin2008 wrote: if its genetic, show me the "gay" gene, or the gene that codes for the production of some sort of chemical that makes you gay or not gay?....it is not genetic

It's extremely likely that the propensity to be gay is genetic similar to the propensity for being an alcohoic is genetic (the specifics of which have been identified).

okay, then how does gay person pass on there gay genes when they (most likely) do not reproduce?

You think this isn't somehow deeply ingrained in the genetics of human beings? It's arguably been a part of human nature since there has been humans.

How else to explain families where both parents are obviously straight and they produce gay offspring -- in some cases, more than one.

Oh and if you think gay people don't reproduce, then you're woefully mistaken. I know of several lesbians and gay men who didn't accept their homosexuality right away. Many of these folks married and had kids.

In my own family, I had two great aunts who were lesbians but had a brother and sister who were not. Obviously, that gene is in the family lineage somehow.

just had another thought...honestly who cares??? if your gay your gay....just treat people how they treat you

UA5straightin2008 wrote:

newarkcatholicfan wrote:

HighRoller74 wrote: Born that way, and we had this thread not too long ago.

Sorry about that.I must have missed it when I did my search.

you went on a gay search?

Funny thing UA5straightin2008 your name was at the top of every "gay Search".

Being gay is a choice. A choice us straight guys appreciate.. It's more women for us. Play all the butt darts you want we are not hating.

WeAreNC wrote:

UA5straightin2008 wrote:

newarkcatholicfan wrote:

HighRoller74 wrote: Born that way, and we had this thread not too long ago.

Sorry about that.I must have missed it when I did my search.

you went on a gay search?

Funny thing UA5straightin2008 your name was at the top of every "gay Search".

Being gay is a choice. A choice us straight guys appreciate.. It's more women for us. Play all the butt darts you want we are not hating.

clever

Writerbuckeye wrote:

UA5straightin2008 wrote:

queencitybuckeye wrote:

UA5straightin2008 wrote: if its genetic, show me the "gay" gene, or the gene that codes for the production of some sort of chemical that makes you gay or not gay?....it is not genetic

It's extremely likely that the propensity to be gay is genetic similar to the propensity for being an alcohoic is genetic (the specifics of which have been identified).

okay, then how does gay person pass on there gay genes when they (most likely) do not reproduce?

You think this isn't somehow deeply ingrained in the genetics of human beings? It's arguably been a part of human nature since there has been humans.

How else to explain families where both parents are obviously straight and they produce gay offspring -- in some cases, more than one.

Oh and if you think gay people don't reproduce, then you're woefully mistaken. I know of several lesbians and gay men who didn't accept their homosexuality right away. Many of these folks married and had kids.

In my own family, I had two great aunts who were lesbians but had a brother and sister who were not. Obviously, that gene is in the family lineage somehow.

notice how i said most likely they wont reproduce, learn to read

and secondly, no i dont think it is engrained in genetics or has anything to do with it, it is a choice

say you were born that way is just an excuse

I absolutely do not believe it's genetic. I'm not sure it's always a choice either, but sometimes it is. I think life events turn a lot of people gay.

Serious Question:

When did you heterosexual men choose to be straight?

I know I'm hetero, and don't even remember this question being presented to me. All I remember was one day, girls just started to appeal to me, wasn't like I was sat down by the Doctor, and he gave me the option.