Strapping Young Lad wrote: Here's what I never understood, bout the something from nothing argument......How do we know there was nothing here before our universe. I'm no physicist so I may be in over my head, but couldn't there have been something else here that contracted upon itself and caused our universe to then explode??????

Or would we be able to know if that was the case????

And, just because something (our universe) had to come from something else, why does that something else or first cause have to be God????? Couldn't it have been some other physical process????

Hope someone can help answer these!!!!!!!!!!

I believe that the words in the Bible are true, so my belief is that God created everything, just as written.

For people who don't believe that, you'll probably blow your mind trying to think of all of the possibilities....I don't know the answer to theories on the big bang, science/evolution, beginning of the world side of things....

McFly1955 wrote: As for the science vs. creation talk....I know I'm not going to change the mind of someone who pushes the scientific thought process, but I find it very hard to believe that people actually think that everything came from nothing and just gradually progressed....Earth just happens to be in the perfect location in our solar system that it is livable and we just had the resources that we needed to grow as a civilization by coincedence...I know to some people believing in 1 God is a far-fetched idea, but not more far fetched than the ideas above, IMO....

You find it hard to believe that people think everything came from nothing? Sooooooo god, who created everything, came from what exactly? Your own beliefs don't even stand up to your own argument.

capninsano wrote:

McFly1955 wrote: As for the science vs. creation talk....I know I'm not going to change the mind of someone who pushes the scientific thought process, but I find it very hard to believe that people actually think that everything came from nothing and just gradually progressed....Earth just happens to be in the perfect location in our solar system that it is livable and we just had the resources that we needed to grow as a civilization by coincedence...I know to some people believing in 1 God is a far-fetched idea, but not more far fetched than the ideas above, IMO....

You find it hard to believe that people think everything came from nothing? Sooooooo god, who created everything, came from what exactly? Your own beliefs don't even stand up to your own argument.

No -- I know there is no substantive proof that I can show/tell to convince someone to support my belief.

As for what created God, I believe God is eternal, no beginning/no end.

This may sound ridiculous, but to me, it's no more ridiculous than "there was a speck of this or that, it became an organism, then it became this, then there was this animal which evolved into this, and the this, and then this became a human, etc. etc....."

What are the chances of one planet having all the necessities for life-support...Gravity, the speed of light and it's effects on the brightness we see/feel, the rotation of the earth, our positioning in the solar system, the resources we have, etc....I don't believe science will ever be able to tell me that this is just a coincidence....It believe it was designed this way.....

My point is that if you think about it, each side can say to the other side "you are crazy" because 1 side of this argument is that a powerful God created everything from nothing, and the other side of the argument is that crap just happened and grew and stuff and here we are...There is no "here, look at this, this proves you are wrong" item/argument for either side....

Tinkertrain wrote: Cats Gone Wild has offically displaced belly as the huddle religious nutjob. It's posts like that, the drive more people away from christianity than they ever bring in

Why am I a Huddle Religions Nutjob?
Because I'm a believer that makes me a Nutjob.
I think not! I think it makes me stronger, positive, confident, determined and resilient if those are the qualities of a Nutjob …I’m good with that.

McFly1955 wrote:

capninsano wrote:

McFly1955 wrote: As for the science vs. creation talk....I know I'm not going to change the mind of someone who pushes the scientific thought process, but I find it very hard to believe that people actually think that everything came from nothing and just gradually progressed....Earth just happens to be in the perfect location in our solar system that it is livable and we just had the resources that we needed to grow as a civilization by coincedence...I know to some people believing in 1 God is a far-fetched idea, but not more far fetched than the ideas above, IMO....

You find it hard to believe that people think everything came from nothing? Sooooooo god, who created everything, came from what exactly? Your own beliefs don't even stand up to your own argument.

No -- I know there is no substantive proof that I can show/tell to convince someone to support my belief.

As for what created God, I believe God is eternal, no beginning/no end.

This may sound ridiculous, but to me, it's no more ridiculous than "there was a speck of this or that, it became an organism, then it became this, then there was this animal which evolved into this, and the this, and then this became a human, etc. etc....."

What are the chances of one planet having all the necessities for life-support...Gravity, the speed of light and it's effects on the brightness we see/feel, the rotation of the earth, our positioning in the solar system, the resources we have, etc....I don't believe science will ever be able to tell me that this is just a coincidence....It believe it was designed this way.....

My point is that if you think about it, each side can say to the other side "you are crazy" because 1 side of this argument is that a powerful God created everything from nothing, and the other side of the argument is that crap just happened and grew and stuff and here we are...There is no "here, look at this, this proves you are wrong" item/argument for either side....

I agree with your last statement. I used to get into pretty heated arguments over this stuff until I realized I'm scientifically no more right than you or anyone else.

As for the coincidence argument...with all of the planets we have found outside of our solar system, I think it's only a matter of time until we find a planet very similar to ours (We can't detect planets our size yet, but soon). It may not harbor intelligent beings but even if it can sustain life then that means there are hundreds/thousands/millions of other earths out there. With those numbers, I think it no longer becomes a coincidence if just one time we were able to perfectly evolve into what we are today.

I thought they were petty close to being able to create life in a lab from the chemical materials that were present at the time when life began...

Anyone know anything about this???

Just looked it up...they expect some team to have it accomplished in 3-10 years!!!!!

That will leave the religious scrambling for some other cop-out to explain away what science can prove....

What the religious who are intolerant of science fail to recognize is that this whole science vs religion battle has been going on for centuries and science just keeps gaining ground and always will......

And many early scientists, who made these discoveries and helped science make advances over religion, were in fact clergymen and future SAINTS!!!!!! That's IRONY!!!!!!

Although I don't think science and religion are necessarily mutually exclusive.....Although I'd like to believe I think the arrows of history and science point the direction opposite of GOD....

yes I believe that Jesus is the son of man and died on the cross so guys like me and everyone else has a chance to be in heaven for eternity threw faith in Christ

Strapping Young Lad wrote: I thought they were petty close to being able to create life in a lab from the chemical materials that were present at the time when life began...

Anyone know anything about this???

There was an experiment thrown together a few years ago that had all of the elements found on earth before life existed on it. They then basically zapped the elements and other things over what would have come out to be millions of years. The end result was the creation of amino acids....which are the building blocks of protein/life.

Strapping Young Lad wrote:What the religious who are intolerant of science fail to recognize is that this whole science vs religion battle has been going on for centuries and science just keeps gaining ground and always will......

Christ believers don't have to prove anything to Science b/c it is all based on faith. Those who have true faith do not feel the need to "prove" to anyone. It is mere faith that Christ exists, is the Son of God, and is their personal Lord and Savior. Science will always be the one "proving" the other, b/c they are the only ones that have to.

capninsano wrote:

McFly1955 wrote:

capninsano wrote:

McFly1955 wrote: As for the science vs. creation talk....I know I'm not going to change the mind of someone who pushes the scientific thought process, but I find it very hard to believe that people actually think that everything came from nothing and just gradually progressed....Earth just happens to be in the perfect location in our solar system that it is livable and we just had the resources that we needed to grow as a civilization by coincedence...I know to some people believing in 1 God is a far-fetched idea, but not more far fetched than the ideas above, IMO....

You find it hard to believe that people think everything came from nothing? Sooooooo god, who created everything, came from what exactly? Your own beliefs don't even stand up to your own argument.

No -- I know there is no substantive proof that I can show/tell to convince someone to support my belief.

As for what created God, I believe God is eternal, no beginning/no end.

This may sound ridiculous, but to me, it's no more ridiculous than "there was a speck of this or that, it became an organism, then it became this, then there was this animal which evolved into this, and the this, and then this became a human, etc. etc....."

What are the chances of one planet having all the necessities for life-support...Gravity, the speed of light and it's effects on the brightness we see/feel, the rotation of the earth, our positioning in the solar system, the resources we have, etc....I don't believe science will ever be able to tell me that this is just a coincidence....It believe it was designed this way.....

My point is that if you think about it, each side can say to the other side "you are crazy" because 1 side of this argument is that a powerful God created everything from nothing, and the other side of the argument is that crap just happened and grew and stuff and here we are...There is no "here, look at this, this proves you are wrong" item/argument for either side....

I agree with your last statement. I used to get into pretty heated arguments over this stuff until I realized I'm scientifically no more right than you or anyone else.

As for the coincidence argument...with all of the planets we have found outside of our solar system, I think it's only a matter of time until we find a planet very similar to ours (We can't detect planets our size yet, but soon). It may not harbor intelligent beings but even if it can sustain life then that means there are hundreds/thousands/millions of other earths out there. With those numbers, I think it no longer becomes a coincidence if just one time we were able to perfectly evolve into what we are today.

Scientists don't argue that earth's formation is merely a coincidence. They postulate how the earth came to be here using the tools at their disposal, mathematics, physics, and quantum mechanics. No scientist on the planet would argue that life is a coincidence, they don't believe in coincidences they believe in what they can prove.

Capninsano: It's more than a matter of time until an Earth like planet is discovered, it is a mathematical inevitability. There are more than 100 Billion galaxies in the observable universe. Each galaxy contains hundreds of billions of stars, a large portion of which posses planetary systems like ours. What are the odds that this one planet out of trillions of other planets is the only one to posses life or intelligent life? The odds are incalculable.

quote]Christ believers don't have to prove anything to Science b/c it is all based on faith. Those who have true faith do not feel the need to "prove" to anyone. It is mere faith that Christ exists, is the Son of God, and is their personal Lord and Savior. Science will always be the one "proving" the other, b/c they are the only ones that have to.
[/quote]

If faith alone gets you by than more power to you, but I need more than that....

I believe these claims by christianity can be backed up or proven false through archaeology, history, and science and i'll base my views accordingly.....If the information is there why not use it and find the truth, not just what you wish to be true...

You can believe in Santy Clause too, but that don't mean he's bringin you anything for Christmas!!!!!

I'm just saying that Science will always be playing the role of "prover." Those with faith don't need proof... they don't need facts... they're just waiting for the outcome.

3reppom wrote:

capninsano wrote:

McFly1955 wrote:

capninsano wrote:

McFly1955 wrote: As for the science vs. creation talk....I know I'm not going to change the mind of someone who pushes the scientific thought process, but I find it very hard to believe that people actually think that everything came from nothing and just gradually progressed....Earth just happens to be in the perfect location in our solar system that it is livable and we just had the resources that we needed to grow as a civilization by coincedence...I know to some people believing in 1 God is a far-fetched idea, but not more far fetched than the ideas above, IMO....

You find it hard to believe that people think everything came from nothing? Sooooooo god, who created everything, came from what exactly? Your own beliefs don't even stand up to your own argument.

No -- I know there is no substantive proof that I can show/tell to convince someone to support my belief.

As for what created God, I believe God is eternal, no beginning/no end.

This may sound ridiculous, but to me, it's no more ridiculous than "there was a speck of this or that, it became an organism, then it became this, then there was this animal which evolved into this, and the this, and then this became a human, etc. etc....."

What are the chances of one planet having all the necessities for life-support...Gravity, the speed of light and it's effects on the brightness we see/feel, the rotation of the earth, our positioning in the solar system, the resources we have, etc....I don't believe science will ever be able to tell me that this is just a coincidence....It believe it was designed this way.....

My point is that if you think about it, each side can say to the other side "you are crazy" because 1 side of this argument is that a powerful God created everything from nothing, and the other side of the argument is that crap just happened and grew and stuff and here we are...There is no "here, look at this, this proves you are wrong" item/argument for either side....

I agree with your last statement. I used to get into pretty heated arguments over this stuff until I realized I'm scientifically no more right than you or anyone else.

As for the coincidence argument...with all of the planets we have found outside of our solar system, I think it's only a matter of time until we find a planet very similar to ours (We can't detect planets our size yet, but soon). It may not harbor intelligent beings but even if it can sustain life then that means there are hundreds/thousands/millions of other earths out there. With those numbers, I think it no longer becomes a coincidence if just one time we were able to perfectly evolve into what we are today.

Scientists don't argue that earth's formation is merely a coincidence. They postulate how the earth came to be here using the tools at their disposal, mathematics, physics, and quantum mechanics. No scientist on the planet would argue that life is a coincidence, they don't believe in coincidences they believe in what they can prove.

Capninsano: It's more than a matter of time until an Earth like planet is discovered, it is a mathematical inevitability. There are more than 100 Billion galaxies in the observable universe. Each galaxy contains hundreds of billions of stars, a large portion of which posses planetary systems like ours. What are the odds that this one planet out of trillions of other planets is the only one to posses life or intelligent life? The odds are incalculable.

I'm with you. They've already discovered one about 1.7 times the size of Earth I think it was a few months ago. I don't think it was a rocky planet, however...I can't remember. I also have no doubt life exists elsewhere in the universe...but as for intelligent life, there is no evidence to support there is. We just don't know how evolution might take place on other planets because each situation is unique due to gravity, weather, etc...The abilities that we have could just be a freak DNA mutation in evolution. How many other species are really that close to us? Our ability to reason is what sets up apart from every other species, and we just don't know what the likelihood is of having that ability elsewhere.

In terms of the existence intelligent life elsewhere in the universe it comes down to the law of large numbers for me. I can't imagine there not being other civilizations of near, equal or superior intelligence elsewhere in the universe. If you are searching for a specific occurrence of an individual trait, such as intelligence, in the entirety of the universe you are bound to find it. Granted it will take a long time to find proof but I don't doubt its existence.

I'm a Southernbabtistbuddistrastafarianaetheist
Wow where to begin on this one many good points already made for both sides of the argument. I was born and raised Catholic went to Catholic school for years, started going to public school in high school. I believe in a "GOD" or higher power but I do not necessarily agree with all of the Catholic beliefs or everything written in the Bible. They are so called stories passed down for many years and finally written by someone, we all know how stories get changed or exaggerated form one person to the next. Also rumors of new testaments or revelations the Vatican has and won't release because they probably contradict many of the questioned faiths or beliefs. I do kind of believe that science and god are intertwined or related in some crazy way.

Science says that for every reaction there is a equal and opposite reaction, therefore you can relate this to the Golden Rule. Treat others how you want to be treated. Which also correlates to Karma which I am a strong believer in, what goes around comes around trust me I know. It may not come back to you in the exact same way you put it out there but in a similar way most likely.

I also don't believe that you have to got to church every Sunday to worship, have faith or believe. I am more inclined to believe that most congregations are more about the money than anything else. Look at the Catholic church it's one of the largest landowners in the World.

As far as God or higher power allowing things to go on that we think are bad or harmful I believe there is something to learn from it that is why it happens.