It sounds like the main hindrance to passing this plan may come from the GOP members of Congress and Senate. The cut back on state Medicaid may be the deal breaker. If this is President Trump's campaign pledge for a wonderful replacement for Obamacare I think it comes up quite short. It may harm many of the older, uneducated whites that voted for him. It will be interesting watching the Congressional battles on this one.

Haven't read it in detail, but not loving what I've seen/read thus far. Mandate being gone is about the only highlight...looks to be a big pander to the anti-abortion gang.

It's Obamacare light.

fish82;1840080 wrote:Haven't read it in detail, but not loving what I've seen/read thus far. Mandate being gone is about the only highlight...looks to be a big pander to the anti-abortion gang.

They kept the mandate in substance if not form - just laundered through the insurance companies. ( Why didn't the Democrats think of that? Would've been better politically and probably more efficient and effective than the threat of the IRS reducing tax refunds!)

Nearly 10 years of sabotaging Obamacare only to come out with the Wal-Mart brand of Obamacare after all this time.

It's almost depressing that it was all so much bullshit - even if I think this means Obamacare is ultimately going to pretty much stay around since it looks like the GOP will not be able to unite around a plan that eliminates it.

What is sad is that there IS a GOP healthcare plan. We need to get government out of healthcare, completely.

Repeal obamacare, completely.

Let the markets work (assuming the damage is not irreparable); let people have the freedom to do as they wish with respect to coverage.

BoatShoes;1840088 wrote:They kept the mandate in substance if not form - just laundered through the insurance companies. ( Why didn't the Democrats think of that? Would've been better politically and probably more efficient and effective than the threat of the IRS reducing tax refunds!)

Nearly 10 years of sabotaging Obamacare only to come out with the Wal-Mart brand of Obamacare after all this time.

It's almost depressing that it was all so much bullshit - even if I think this means Obamacare is ultimately going to pretty much stay around since it looks like the GOP will not be able to unite around a plan that eliminates it.

The answer: The GOP didn't think things through any more than simply saying, "The Ds came up with Obamacare (well, sort of, since it was based on Romney's plan...but it has their name on it), therefore, we will oppose it!" And so, when the time came for them to actually do something, all they did was create a derivative of it.

And that's today's politics in a nutshell.

QuakerOats;1840091 wrote:What is sad is that there IS a GOP healthcare plan. We need to get government out of healthcare, completely.

Repeal obamacare, completely.

Let the markets work (assuming the damage is not irreparable); let people have the freedom to do as they wish with respect to coverage.

This. If the GOP isn't planning to incrementally repeal/replace Obamacare and this is their grand plan they can kindly go fuck themselves. They let these town halls scare them into a very vanilla plan. They were boxing out Rand Paul from even seeing the bill. He had the best plan imo out of all the ones I have seen.

Heretic;1840093 wrote:And so, when the time came for them to actually do something, all they did was create a derivative of it.

But how did Trump demanding certain features affect their plan? It's entirely possible those features rendered whatever they had completely unworkable.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/5350551259001/?#sp=show-clips


Well, Arthur Laffer loves it and says it will be worth 2,000 - 3,000 points on the Dow, and that is before it is amended (properly). We sometimes forget how penal this law and the related rules truly are. It is an absolute disaster and those of us who have to deal with it up close and personal know it, as do the two hundred million or so who have been totally screwed by it.


Rip it out.

The two things that strike me the most are that it did not include an ability to "shop" across state lines which seemed like an idea that Republicans loved and that it seems to argue against itself in regards to continuing coverage for pre-existing conditions. These high risk pools only work if they're balanced out by healthy people forced to participate through a mandate with teeth. Obama didn't want to take that political hit so now they're imploding. This new plan keeps coverage for pre-existing but totally removes the mandate (well, kind of)...how does that do anything but speed up the meltdown?

This bill suffers from the same flaw as Obamacare. It's too focused on being vanilla. IMO we've got to move toward free-market or socialized medicine. I'd rather us move totally in the direction I'm against than to continue on in this hybrid environment where we're not addressing cost or coverage. Either put everyone on Medicare and say healthcare is a basic right and the gov't will provide it or it's a choice and if you want it go buy it from any provider that best fits your needs.

rocketalum;1840111 wrote:This new plan keeps coverage for pre-existing but totally removes the mandate (well, kind of)...how does that do anything but speed up the meltdown?

I haven't read it, but you raise an interesting question. Why couldn't you bar insurance companies from screening for pre-existing conditions, and so they factor that into the entire risk pool....and then make it such that you have a 2-yr waiting period or something if you've not had continuous coverage? I think that would effectively eliminate the "free-rider" issue.

Thought I just saw a blurb that the shopping across state-lines is going to be part of a "Phase 2".

BoatShoes;1840088 wrote:They kept the mandate in substance if not form - just laundered through the insurance companies. ( Why didn't the Democrats think of that? Would've been better politically and probably more efficient and effective than the threat of the IRS reducing tax refunds!)

Nearly 10 years of sabotaging Obamacare only to come out with the Wal-Mart brand of Obamacare after all this time.

It's almost depressing that it was all so much bullshit - even if I think this means Obamacare is ultimately going to pretty much stay around since it looks like the GOP will not be able to unite around a plan that eliminates it.

Yeah...kind of a letdown after all the bluster lol.

The biggest complaint is you're going to drive even more "healthy" people out of the pool. Sure, you're going to have more options and the restrictions are less, but does it really create more affordable health care?

Azubuike24;1840243 wrote:The biggest complaint is you're going to drive even more "healthy" people out of the pool. Sure, you're going to have more options and the restrictions are less, but does it really create more affordable health care?

There simply isn't much margin in insurance to go after. Literally trying to squeeze blood from the "smallest" turnip in the bunch. There are systemic and cultural issues driving healthcare costs higher. And even if you took an axe to margins and costs, there's no reason to believe the steady march of inflation wouldn't resume (albeit off a lower base). You wipe out 30% of costs, and in 5-6 years you'll be right back to where you started.

Let California go single payer and let's see how it works out. Let some other states choose their own routes. Then let's see what works, or if national healthcare is really even an optimal option. Because when you are citing other countries, you're talking population/demographics/geography more comparable with individual states than the entire country.

Totally agree. I've said it a few times in these threads...all the talk is "how to pay for it all and give the most coverage" and very little discussion on how to prevent the cluster fuck in the first place.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/outrage-over-dollar400-million-tax-break-for-insurance-executives-under-gop-obamacare-replacement-plan/ar-AAo1XOm?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Why would they even think of putting this in as part of the plan? Kind of shows who they are actually looking out for doesn't it?

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/03/is-gop-health-care-bill-a-disaster-no.php

QuakerOats;1840615 wrote:http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2017/03/is-gop-health-care-bill-a-disaster-no.php

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/08/editorial-why-paul-ryans-health-care-plan-is-an-unmitigated-disaster/
And your point is? We can do this all day long but all it amounts to is finding the links that you personally want to believe. We can't prove which one is actually right. More like somewhere in the middle.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article138445668.html
It looks like a single payer plan may be the only suitable option.

There is nothing suitable about that.

The sooner we extricate BIG government from all things health insurance/care related, the better.

Start the process.

ppaw1999;1842433 wrote:http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article138445668.html
It looks like a single payer plan may be the only suitable option.

uuuugh.......why do they spin this stuff. Federal law mandates you purchase health insurance (i.e. car insurance).....nobody loses the ability to buy it. Its been for sale for along time without the government involvement. If people dont purchase it, its on them

ppaw1999;1842433 wrote:http://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/editorials/article138445668.html
It looks like a single payer plan may be the only suitable option.

Well, you definitely can't half ass it. This middle ground is not going to work. You either go all in on single payer or back to the free market. I am on the side of the free market. I've already given my thoughts how on single payer will bring down the quality of healthcare.

like_that;1842476 wrote:Well, you definitely can't half ass it. This middle ground is not going to work. You either go all in on single payer or back to the free market. I am on the side of the free market. I've already given my thoughts how on single payer will bring down the quality of healthcare.

Totally agree. Obamacare and Trumpcare's failure is that they are half measures. Government either all in or all out on Healthcare but who will sign up to take that political hit? Either option will earn the wrath of half the population. So we will continue to get these kick the can measures that solve nothing.

rocketalum;1842479 wrote:Totally agree. Obamacare and Trumpcare's failure is that they are half measures. Government either all in or all out on Healthcare but who will sign up to take that political hit? Either option will earn the wrath of half the population. So we will continue to get these kick the can measures that solve nothing.

Yup, further argument for term limits. Quit being pussies and do what you actually want to do.

QuakerOats;1842457 wrote:There is nothing suitable about that.

The sooner we extricate BIG government from all things health insurance/care related, the better.

Start the process.

I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately neither party is willing to take the first step.