Disgusted with Trump administration - Part I

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sleeper

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May 10, 2017 12:58 PM
We need a special prosecutor in this case. Only Republicans are against this.

But both parties are the same! LOL
May 10, 2017 12:58pm
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O-Trap

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May 10, 2017 12:59 PM
fish82;1852244 wrote:FWIW, the person appointing the replacement isn't under investigation.
The POTUS ultimately appoints the FBI Director, no? Or are you saying that the POTUS is not the one under investigation?
fish82;1852244 wrote:I guess. I haven't seen much of a lovefest between the two bodies so far, but I suppose it's an advantage.
I'm not saying they're creaming themselves over it, but it's more of an advantage than had the Senate ben Democrat-controlled.
fish82;1852244 wrote:From a political standpoint, it certainly does. The Russia meme has been a joke from the beginning...there's simply nothing there. The list of things to dislike Trump over is long, but this isn't one of them.
In the event that there's nothing there, it will be wasted time. Not any sort of catastrophe.

Without any sort of investigation, how does one come to the conclusion that nothing is there?
May 10, 2017 12:59pm
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May 10, 2017 1:01 PM
sleeper;1852252 wrote:We need a special prosecutor in this case. Only Republicans are against this.

But both parties are the same! LOL
Actually, this does show the stark similarities.

The Democratic Party went from calling for Comey's head to thinking his firing was unjustified.

The Republican Party went from thinking his firing would be unjustified to calling for Comey's head.
May 10, 2017 1:01pm
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sleeper

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May 10, 2017 1:02 PM
Without any sort of investigation, how does one come to the conclusion that nothing is there?
Two words: Fox News
May 10, 2017 1:02pm
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May 10, 2017 1:06 PM
sleeper;1852255 wrote:Two words: Fox News
If that were a serious answer, I would just run the same question up the chain:

Without any sort of investigation, how would they come to the conclusion that nothing is there?
May 10, 2017 1:06pm
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gut

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May 10, 2017 1:06 PM
O-Trap;1852248 wrote: Whether or not anything serves as an illicit means of political assassination would seem to hinge on whether or not the claims are true, though, would it not?
Not without full disclosure. Something as innocuous as a call or brief meeting at an event (sound familiar?) can let imaginations and character attacks run wild without providing full details and context. It's guilt by association without any evidence of wrongdoing.

These investigations should be done in secret (with congressional review to prevent abuses of power) and only disclosed if there is evidence to proceed. Leaks undermine that entire process and create an atmosphere of "guilty until proven innocent". I'm reasonably certain intelligence services look into these issues all the time, and nothing comes of it and "no harm, no foul" because leaks don't happen.
May 10, 2017 1:06pm
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fish82

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May 10, 2017 1:06 PM
O-Trap;1852253 wrote:The POTUS ultimately appoints the FBI Director, no? Or are you saying that the POTUS is not the one under investigation?
That's what I'm saying. The POTUS is not under FBI investigation.
O-Trap;1852253 wrote:I'm not saying they're creaming themselves over it, but it's more of an advantage than had the Senate ben Democrat-controlled.
Agreed.
O-Trap;1852253 wrote:In the event that there's nothing there, it will be wasted time. Not any sort of catastrophe.

Without any sort of investigation, how does one come to the conclusion that nothing is there?
Pretty easily. Had there been anything worth noting regarding "Russian collusion," it would have come to light almost immediately. We're talking about mostly political neophytes here...they don't have the skills to cover their tracks that well.

Mark it down and add it to your sig if you want. There's nothing there.
May 10, 2017 1:06pm
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Heretic

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May 10, 2017 1:06 PM
O-Trap;1852254 wrote:Actually, this does show the stark similarities.

The Democratic Party went from calling for Comey's head to thinking his firing was unjustified.

The Republican Party went from thinking his firing would be unjustified to calling for Comey's head.
Pretty much. One thing I think is funny (in a sad way) is how it seems like everyone only looks at the aspect of it that makes the other party look hypocritical, while completely ignoring the aspect that makes them look equally as bad.
May 10, 2017 1:06pm
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sleeper

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May 10, 2017 1:08 PM
I don't think Comey should have been fired even back in the day when the Clinton Email letter was LEAKED. Remember, it was not a public letter, it was LEAKED and Republicans don't seem to care that it was LEAKED unless it affects them negatively.

It's really quite disgusting how partisan and unethical the Republican party is and their voters endorse and support it.
May 10, 2017 1:08pm
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gut

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May 10, 2017 1:12 PM
sleeper;1852249 wrote:The unmasking isn't the story. Without the leaks, Flynn would still be the NSA so whoever did the leaks should be given a Presidential medal. The Republicans want to focus on this because it distracts from the REAL issue, one that actually matters to the safety and defense of the Republic.
I don't think that's exactly the spirit of the Logan Act. One month later, there's absolutely no wrongdoing and he almost certainly was going to be approved. I have zero doubt he wasn't the first, and probably won't be the last, future appointee to begin having informal discussions before being officially confirmed. It's almost inconceivable to me that this doesn't happen as a normal course of business as part of the transition process.

It's a giant nothing-burger without the leaks, leaks that were clearly politically motivated and set in motion with an 11th hour EO from Obama.
May 10, 2017 1:12pm
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May 10, 2017 1:15 PM
gut;1852262 wrote:I don't think that's exactly the spirit of the Logan Act. One month later, there's absolutely no wrongdoing and he almost certainly was going to be approved. I have zero doubt he wasn't the first, and probably won't be the last, future appointee to begin having informal discussions before being officially confirmed. It's almost inconceivable to me that this doesn't happen as a normal course of business as part of the transition process.

It's a giant nothing-burger without the leaks, leaks that were clearly politically motivated and set in motion with an 11th hour EO from Obama.
I mean its under investigation right now and subpoena's have been issued to him(and his associates). But yes, keep telling yourself that he did nothing wrong. It's amazing how partisan and biased you've become; Fox News?
May 10, 2017 1:15pm
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May 10, 2017 1:26 PM
fish82;1852259 wrote:That's what I'm saying. The POTUS is not under FBI investigation.
I would disagree. His actually being the POTUS is called into question in the investigation.

I'm not suggesting that Trump himself is facing a criminal investigation. I'm saying his being the president is. As such, he is under investigation as the holder of that position, the election of which is in question.
fish82;1852259 wrote:Pretty easily. Had there been anything worth noting regarding "Russian collusion," it would have come to light almost immediately. We're talking about mostly political neophytes here...they don't have the skills to cover their tracks that well.

Mark it down and add it to your sig if you want. There's nothing there.
This is mostly begging the question. We know there's nothing there because if there was, we'd already know there was something there?

And if we didn't yet, because someone semi-competent covered their tracks?
Heretic;1852260 wrote:Pretty much. One thing I think is funny (in a sad way) is how it seems like everyone only looks at the aspect of it that makes the other party look hypocritical, while completely ignoring the aspect that makes them look equally as bad.
"Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Religious or not, it seems appropriate.
sleeper;1852261 wrote:I don't think Comey should have been fired even back in the day when the Clinton Email letter was LEAKED. Remember, it was not a public letter, it was LEAKED and Republicans don't seem to care that it was LEAKED unless it affects them negatively.

It's really quite disgusting how partisan and unethical the Republican party is and their voters endorse and support it.
Sleeper, if you genuinely don't think Comey should have been fired, you were in the minority.

However, partisanship is strong in both camps, and it has been for at least a couple decades. The fact that Trump is a buffoon merely makes it easier to justify for the Democratic Party for the moment.
May 10, 2017 1:26pm
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gut

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May 10, 2017 1:29 PM
sleeper;1852264 wrote:I mean its under investigation right now and subpoena's have been issued to him(and his associates). But yes, keep telling yourself that he did nothing wrong. It's amazing how partisan and biased you've become; Fox News?
First, you don't know the nature or purpose of those subpoenas. Second, Clapper said under oath he had seen no evidence of collusion.

Also: http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-comey-says-the-late-disclosure-of-1493824301-htmlstory.html
Comey told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the decision to go public 11 days before the election was "one of the world's most painful experiences," but that he would do it again.
May 10, 2017 1:29pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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May 10, 2017 1:34 PM
gut;1852269 wrote:First, you don't know the nature or purpose of those subpoenas. Second, Clapper said under oath he had seen no evidence of collusion.

Also: http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-comey-says-the-late-disclosure-of-1493824301-htmlstory.html
Comey told the Senate Judiciary Committee that the decision to go public 11 days before the election was "one of the world's most painful experiences," but that he would do it again.
Except if you watched Comey's testimony, he explained that by "public" he meant outside of the agency, not the general public. He was concerned that the letter may be leaked by the Senate and it indeed was leaked.
May 10, 2017 1:34pm
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gut

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May 10, 2017 1:35 PM
O-Trap;1852267 wrote: And if we didn't yet, because someone semi-competent covered their tracks?
But that doesn't really pass the smell test for me.

Why would a multi-billionaire take a flyer, and huge risk, on colluding with Russia when dumping a $100M into campaign ads would have been a far safer and more effective course? I'm still not convinced he REALLY wanted to win, because he spent hardly any of his own money. Granted, who knows what goes on in that head of his, but getting in bed with Russia make no sense.
May 10, 2017 1:35pm
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gut

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May 10, 2017 1:41 PM
sleeper;1852271 wrote:Except if you watched Comey's testimony, he explained that by "public" he meant outside of the agency, not the general public. He was concerned that the letter may be leaked by the Senate and it indeed was leaked.
LOL, so he didn't go "public" sending a letter he expected to be "leaked"?

Also, we KNOW who leaked it. Rep. Jason Chaffetz, whom some Democrat organization has filed an ethics complaint against. So, pretty clearly nothing illegal there.
May 10, 2017 1:41pm
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May 10, 2017 1:45 PM
gut;1852275 wrote:LOL, so he didn't go "public" sending a letter he expected to be "leaked"?

Also, we KNOW who leaked it. Rep. Jason Chaffetz, whom some Democrat organization has filed an ethics complaint against. So, pretty clearly nothing illegal there.
He had to notify the appropriate parties and cannot prevent people from leaking information so yes he was concerned it would be leaked.

But you didn't watch his testimony and you clearly are a Fox News viewer so your credibility is about zero if I'm being nice.
May 10, 2017 1:45pm
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May 10, 2017 1:45 PM
sleeper;1852241 wrote:I'm glad at least one party is choosing country over party. It's a shame Republicans are more interested in obfuscation than protecting the office of the President from foreign influence.

Luckily, Hillary lost. Her approval of the sale of 20% of our uranium to RUSSIA in return for tens of millions of dollars funneled to her through her foundation from a Canadian front company would have probably had Chuck U Schumer calling for a special prosecutor over foreign influence. Good point.
May 10, 2017 1:45pm
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May 10, 2017 1:49 PM
gut;1852272 wrote:But that doesn't really pass the smell test for me.

Why would a multi-billionaire take a flyer, and huge risk, on colluding with Russia when dumping a $100M into campaign ads would have been a far safer and more effective course? I'm still not convinced he REALLY wanted to win, because he spent hardly any of his own money. Granted, who knows what goes on in that head of his, but getting in bed with Russia make no sense.
The current theory is that Trump was in deep trouble from the 2008 housing crises because his business are real estate driven and highly leveraged. He looked to Russia for funding to keep himself a float through back channels and offshore accounts and potentially has dealings that are illegal out there. In the campaign, it's certainly possible he exchanged favors through the same back channels for the releasing of emails that damaged his political opponent since the connections had been established already with the Russians.

You never ask yourself why the Russians only released DNC information and not the RNC data they hacked?
May 10, 2017 1:49pm
G

gut

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May 10, 2017 1:49 PM
sleeper;1852276 wrote:He had to notify the appropriate parties and cannot prevent people from leaking information so yes he was concerned it would be leaked.

But you didn't watch his testimony and you clearly are a Fox News viewer so your credibility is about zero if I'm being nice.
No, in the article I linked he very clearly stated he didn't have to notify them, but felt it was the correct decision.

You need to stop getting HuffPo second-hand from your girlfriend.
May 10, 2017 1:49pm
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sleeper

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May 10, 2017 1:50 PM
QuakerOats;1852277 wrote:Luckily, Hillary lost. Her approval of the sale of 20% of our uranium to RUSSIA in return for tens of millions of dollars funneled to her through her foundation from a Canadian front company would have probably had Chuck U Schumer calling for a special prosecutor over foreign influence. Good point.
Again, this thread is about Trump. Bringing up Hillary when the President is under criminal investigation by the FBI and other agencies is deflection.

When are you going to hold the POTUS accountable and start choosing country over party?
May 10, 2017 1:50pm
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QuakerOats

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May 10, 2017 1:51 PM
sleeper;1852251 wrote:Comey was fired without a replacement identified for something he did almost 9 months ago. What took Trump so long?

He waited for a decades-long tenured public official with no bias who was actually appointed by obama and is now the deputy AG to finish an investigation and compile a report with a recommendation. The recommendation was to dismiss Comey so that the FBI can be restored to order and assume its rightful position underneath the Justice Department.

Perhaps you should read the report from Mr. Rosenstein.
May 10, 2017 1:51pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

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May 10, 2017 1:52 PM
gut;1852280 wrote:No, in the article I linked he very clearly stated he didn't have to notify them, but felt it was the correct decision.

You need to stop getting HuffPo second-hand from your girlfriend.
No, in the testimony(which you didn't watch and I don't read huffpo) he stated that he wrestled with the decision to release the information to the public or 'conceal' it within the FBI. He ultimately chose to release the information because he felt it was the right thing to do.

Anyways your very clearly playing semantics because you are wrong. Enjoy!
May 10, 2017 1:52pm
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O-Trap

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May 10, 2017 1:52 PM
gut;1852272 wrote:But that doesn't really pass the smell test for me.

Why would a multi-billionaire take a flyer, and huge risk, on colluding with Russia when dumping a $100M into campaign ads would have been a far safer and more effective course? I'm still not convinced he REALLY wanted to win, because he spent hardly any of his own money. Granted, who knows what goes on in that head of his, but getting in bed with Russia make no sense.
I'm not actually certain that he was necessarily the one involved in collusion ... or at the very least, not directly.

As you say, the man is a multi-billionaire. It wouldn't be much for him to hire teams of people to work on his behalf, even aside from his actual campaign.

Moreover, in theory at least, it might be something that was initiated and/or facilitated more on the Russian side of things. It still would affect his presidency, even if he wasn't directly involved or aware of illicit dealings.
May 10, 2017 1:52pm
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May 10, 2017 1:53 PM
QuakerOats;1852282 wrote:He waited for a decades-long tenured public official with no bias who was actually appointed by obama and is now the deputy AG to finish an investigation and compile a report with a recommendation. The recommendation was to dismiss Comey so that the FBI can be restored to order and assume its rightful position underneath the Justice Department.

Perhaps you should read the report from Mr. Rosenstein.
That didn't answer my question. Why did it take Trump 4 months to fire the guy when the firing offense was committed 10 months ago? What new information does Trump have which caused the firing?

You really need to stop watching Fox News. It's propaganda.
May 10, 2017 1:53pm