2015 Ohio Issues 1, 2 an 3

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C

Con_Alma

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Collectively people and their actions help shape culture. In addition, culture has direct influences on the pace with which society develops or declines. We are fortunate to be able to collectively determine what actions we want to permit understanding that we continue to try and plant the seeds of what we would ideally like to be a part of and are working towards.

Marijuana will be legal in Ohio someday...when people collectively are ready for it to be permitted as a desired piece of our culture. It doesn't appear that we are there yet but we are certainly closer than just a few years ago.
Nov 4, 2015 12:21pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
Con_Alma;1760904 wrote:Collectively people and their actions help shape culture. In addition, culture has direct influences on the pace with which society develops or declines. We are fortunate to be able to collectively determine what actions we want to permit understanding that we continue to try and plant the seeds of what we would ideally like to be a part of and are working towards.

Marijuana will be legal in Ohio someday...when people collectively are ready for it to be permitted as a desired piece of our culture. It doesn't appear that we are there yet but we are certainly closer than just a few years ago.
Nov 4, 2015 12:45pm
SizzlePig's avatar

SizzlePig

Member

76 posts
Automatik;1760903 wrote:LOL....worst comparison of all time.
i think you mean worst argument of all time. are you saying the argument is only good for some things and not others? you can't possible understand how illegal drugs has an effect on society as a whole?
Nov 4, 2015 1:28pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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I don't think that the defeat of issue #3 should be construed that people in Ohio are completely against marijuana legalization....this issue becomes a lot closer if the "monopoly" method of legalization is not involved.

The onlky reason you can consider MJ a "gateway" drug, is because in order to get it you have to go thru a guy who also sells and pushes the really bad stuff.
Nov 4, 2015 1:33pm
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Automatik

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14,632 posts
SizzlePig;1760929 wrote:i think you mean worst argument of all time. are you saying the argument is only good for some things and not others? you can't possible understand how illegal drugs has an effect on society as a whole?
Alcohol is a legal drug. How is that working out?

Pain meds are illegal. How is that working out?
HitsRus;1760931 wrote:I don't think that the defeat of issue #3 should be construed that people in Ohio are completely against marijuana legalization....this issue becomes a lot closer if the "monopoly" method of legalization is not involved.

The onlky reason you can consider MJ a "gateway" drug, is because in order to get it you have to go thru a guy who also sells and pushes the really bad stuff.
Another baseless post buy the older generation.

Show of hands, how many posters have dealt with pot dealers that also "pushes the really bad stuff"?
Nov 4, 2015 1:37pm
SizzlePig's avatar

SizzlePig

Member

76 posts
Automatik;1760932 wrote:Alcohol is a legal drug. How is that working out?

Pain meds are illegal. How is that working out?
i wasn't arguing either of those points. i'm in favor of legalization. just don't understand some of the arguments for it.
Nov 4, 2015 1:44pm
SizzlePig's avatar

SizzlePig

Member

76 posts
HitsRus;1760931 wrote:I don't think that the defeat of issue #3 should be construed that people in Ohio are completely against marijuana legalization....this issue becomes a lot closer if the "monopoly" method of legalization is not involved.

The onlky reason you can consider MJ a "gateway" drug, is because in order to get it you have to go thru a guy who also sells and pushes the really bad stuff.
i also think they should go for medical only, get it passed, then move on to recreation if they want. medical would pass rather easy, imo.
Nov 4, 2015 1:45pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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14,632 posts
Likewise. It's absurd.

That being said, I don't mind that that Issue 3 was shot down. I'm wondering when it could make the ballet next, could be a long time.
Nov 4, 2015 1:46pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Automatik;1760932 wrote:Alcohol is a legal drug. How is that working out?

Pain meds are illegal. How is that working out?



Another baseless post buy the older generation.

Show of hands, how many posters have dealt with pot dealers that also "pushes the really bad stuff"?
What do you mean by "working out" when you ask?

People seem to be punished when caught for breaking the laws and until the respective laws or lack thereof that relate to pain meds and or alcohol they will be a reflection of what we collectively wanted at the time they were instituted. Sometimes that was through our representative but the basis is the same.
Nov 4, 2015 1:52pm
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SportsAndLady

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35,632 posts
Wait wait wait.

Hits thinks that all marijuana dealers are also Coke, pills, heroin, etc dealers?

Lol please tell me I missed the sarcasm?
Nov 4, 2015 2:05pm
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DeyDurkie5

Senior Member

11,324 posts
SportsAndLady;1760938 wrote:Wait wait wait.

Hits thinks that all marijuana dealers are also Coke, pills, heroin, etc dealers?

Lol please tell me I missed the sarcasm?
No sarcasm. He is that delusional
Nov 4, 2015 2:08pm
Automatik's avatar

Automatik

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14,632 posts
Con_Alma;1760936 wrote:What do you mean by "working out" when you ask?

People seem to be punished when caught for breaking the laws and until the respective laws or lack thereof that relate to pain meds and or alcohol they will be a reflection of what we collectively wanted at the time they were instituted. Sometimes that was through our representative but the basis is the same.
If you can't figure out what I'm getting at, then I unfortunately, I can't help you.
Nov 4, 2015 2:34pm
rrfan's avatar

rrfan

Senior Member

1,922 posts
ernest_t_bass;1760894 wrote:What baffles my mind are 2 things:

1) Weed vs. Alcohol
- Alcohol (and all of the damages that come with it = OK!!!
- Weed (and all of the damages that come with it = Not OK!!!

2) Penalizing/criminalizing someone for doing something that is LEGAL elsewhere. A person can have a minimal amount of weed and get criminal action against them in the state of OH. However, that same person can do the exact same thing in, say Colorado, and it is perfectly legal.

What would some of these fucking anti-weed chest thumpers say about criminalizing Indiana residents for crossing into Ohio to buy beer on Sundays? Let's push for it!!!

It's fucking absurd.
Prostitution is legal in some places and not in others......
Nov 4, 2015 2:49pm
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lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
HitsRus;1760931 wrote: because in order to get it you have to go thru a guy who also sells and pushes the really bad stuff.

This statement shows a complete disconnect between perception and reality.
Nov 4, 2015 2:52pm
ernest_t_bass's avatar

ernest_t_bass

12th Son of the Lama

24,984 posts
rrfan;1760953 wrote:Prostitution is legal in some places and not in others......
Then add it to the list.
Nov 4, 2015 2:54pm
A

Al Bundy

Senior Member

4,180 posts
Why does the medical even need to be voted on? We don't vote on any other medical drug.
Nov 4, 2015 3:40pm
W

Wolves of Babylon

Senior Member

408 posts
Al Bundy;1760962 wrote:Why does the medical even need to be voted on? We don't vote on any other medical drug.
No kidding, maybe we should. If you listen to commercials and hear the side effects of some of these drugs; depression, suicidal thoughts, liver failure etc....

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
Nov 4, 2015 3:48pm
Apple's avatar

Apple

Prost!

2,620 posts
sleeper;1760830 wrote:Old people.

The worst.
Don't blame all of them.

Also... using the term "old people" is highly subjective, and in many cases, offensive. Not that it matters to you. :)
Nov 4, 2015 4:04pm
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HitsRus

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Hits thinks that all marijuana dealers are also Coke, pills, heroin, etc dealers?
Thanks, for correcting me guys...it's been about 40 years since I've bought any, and I had no idea that today's dealers were choir boys....and I had no idea that there were so many experts! I really was just trying to make the point that the only way that pot would be a "gateway drug" ( a reason cited by anti legalization people) would be that some dealers might push other stuff. I stand corrected. Even if my perception is "delusional"....I'm not sure why you are blaming 'old' people, other than you can't own up to your own generation's culpability in the defeat. Most of the 'old folk' that I know voted "yes", or if they voted 'No' it was because of the monopoly issue.
Nov 4, 2015 5:29pm
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majorspark

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FatHobbit;1760824 wrote:So does issue 2 actually make weed legal or just change the ballot process? I voted against it because I didn't want to change the ballot process but I'm unclear if it passing makes weed legal or illegal or what.
Case in point as to what Hits was commenting on about direct democracy vs representative democracy. Our representatives may at times be lower than whale shit and on the take but they do know what they are voting or not voting for. They have teams of experts advising them.

We all hire people to do a multitude of things we don't have the time to invest in learning. If you don't like the job the person you hired is doing you fire them. I don't think its a good thing to have the average voter making binding law or worse amending the state constitution.
Nov 4, 2015 6:06pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

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5,122 posts
HitsRus;1760988 wrote:.I'm not sure why you are blaming 'old' people, other than you can't own up to your own generation's culpability in the defeat. Most of the 'old folk' that I know voted "yes", or if they voted 'No' it was because of the monopoly issue.
This. My mom is likely at least your age or older. Smokes weed and is in favor of its legalization. Personally I agree there is no difference per se between alcohol and marijuana. However I will say this (going back many moons) that the effects on my mental faculties were far greater when sharing a joint with with my buddies when I was in college than the effects of 1 or 2 beers. The potency of a drug to intoxicate needs to be taken into consideration when considering its legalization or regulation.
Nov 4, 2015 6:44pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
majorspark;1760990 wrote:Case in point as to what Hits was commenting on about direct democracy vs representative democracy. Our representatives may at times be lower than whale shit and on the take but they do know what they are voting or not voting for. They have teams of experts advising them.

We all hire people to do a multitude of things we don't have the time to invest in learning. If you don't like the job the person you hired is doing you fire them. I don't think its a good thing to have the average voter making binding law or worse amending the state constitution.
gerrymandered into their positions, often not reading or interested in the legislation they are voting on. Often voting based on logrolling trade offs. And their team of experts-paid lobbyists who offer them contributions and future employment.
Nov 4, 2015 7:08pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

Senior Member

7,117 posts
majorspark;1760990 wrote:Case in point as to what Hits was commenting on about direct democracy vs representative democracy. Our representatives may at times be lower than whale shit and on the take but they do know what they are voting or not voting for. They have teams of experts advising them.

We all hire people to do a multitude of things we don't have the time to invest in learning. If you don't like the job the person you hired is doing you fire them. I don't think its a good thing to have the average voter making binding law or worse amending the state constitution.
All well and good, but this knowledge is offset in that my opinion of where I stand on an issue doesn't depend in large part to the relative influx of cash by the opposing sides.

One of the biggest problems a representative form of government solves is logistical, an issue that largely no longer exists. If I could set things up today, I would leave detailed and highly technical issues to the legislature. Much of what the legislature deals with could now easily be handled via pure democracy.
Nov 4, 2015 7:33pm
C

Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Automatik;1760948 wrote:If you can't figure out what I'm getting at, then I unfortunately, I can't help you.
I can figure it out but I was hoping to understand what a law working out meant to you.

Laws are put into place for many different reasons and have different impacts and benefits. It you don't believe the laws regarding drugs and alcohol are working out, what is it that you believe the laws are failing to do? They might be carrying out another function quite effectively...but I don't know what you believe they aren't effective at.
Nov 4, 2015 7:57pm
majorspark's avatar

majorspark

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queencitybuckeye;1761004 wrote:All well and good, but this knowledge is offset in that my opinion of where I stand on an issue doesn't depend in large part to the relative influx of cash by the opposing sides.
You are not the average voter. Nor am I. The average voter can easily be manipulated by media outlets which are driven by the influx of cash.
queencitybuckeye;1761004 wrote:One of the biggest problems a representative form of government solves is logistical, an issue that largely no longer exists.
I disagree. I see it more as a buffer to (for the lack of a better term) mob rule.
queencitybuckeye;1761004 wrote: If I could set things up today, I would leave detailed and highly technical issues to the legislature. Much of what the legislature deals with could now easily be handled via pure democracy.
Too subjective for me. I'll give you one objective example. In no way shape or form should direct democracy have any impact on constitutional law. I am not against direct democracy in total but I do draw hard lines.
Nov 4, 2015 9:09pm