SportsAndLady;1738778 wrote: I'm not one of those religion bashers but come on...

Liar

superman;1738828 wrote:Liar

I'm a religious whackjob basher. Doesn't make me a religion basher.

SportsAndLady;1738829 wrote:I'm a religious whackjob basher. Doesn't make me a religion basher.

Calling the bible a looney tune book is bashing all Christians.

....further elaborating....
As in the case that Highroller74 cited a few posts back, a business providing "marriage services" for profit, would be forced under law to provide services for gay unions, even if it was vehemently against the religion of the owners. By properly defining the term, the 14 th amendment is satisfied without the state forcing people to do something against their religion. When you go to McDonalds you can order anything you want on the menu and they must serve you no matter your race religion, gender, etc etc. but you can't walk in and demand they serve you filet mignon because it is not on the menu. Like wise, same sex couples should not expect to go into a place offering Christian marriage services and demand a gay civil union service, because that is simply not on the menu.

Now I expect progressadore to get on here and call it bigotry and call me the same, but it is really about allowing people freedom to live their lives as happily as possible and as free from government encumbrances as possible. Gay couples should have no problem finding people to provide civil union services without having to force someone to provide it... Just because ......

HitsRus;1738816 wrote:It's not about the secular state "following" the bible,... there is to be no state sanctioning of a religion.... It's about the rights of religious people to the term " marriage", a term that they have historically defined.

gosh a ruddies and how did the Bible define marriage:

[h=3]What the Bible says about Polygamy[/h]<dl> <dt>Genesis 4:19 <dd>And Lamech took unto him two wives. <dt>Genesis 16:1-4 <dd>Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived. <dt>Genesis 25:6 <dd>But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had.... <dt>Genesis 26:34 <dd>Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. <dt>Genesis 31:17 <dd>Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels. <dt>Exodus 21:10 <dd>If he take him another wife.... <dt>Deuteronomy 21:15 <dd>If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated.... <dt>Judges 8:30 <dd>And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives. <dt>1 Samuel 1:1-2 <dd>Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah. <dt>2 Samuel 12:7-8 <dd>Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives.... <dt>1 Kings 11:2-3 <dd>Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines. <dt>1 Chronicles 4:5 <dd>And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah. <dt>2 Chronicles 11:21 <dd>Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines. <dt>2 Chronicles 13:21 <dd>But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives.... <dt>2 Chronicles 24:3 <dd>Jehoiada took for him two wives.... <dt>Mt.25:1 <dd>Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. </dd></dl>[HR][/HR]<!--webbot bot="Include" U-Include="../ads/bottom.html" TAG="BODY" startspan --> <ins id="aswift_0_expand" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: currentColor; width: 728px; height: 90px; display: inline-table; visibility: visible; position: relative; background-color: transparent; border-image: none;"><ins id="aswift_0_anchor" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: currentColor; width: 728px; height: 90px; display: block; visibility: visible; position: relative; background-color: transparent; border-image: none;"><iframe name="aswift_0" width="728" height="90" id="aswift_0" frameBorder="0" marginWidth="0" marginHeight="0" scrolling="no" vspace="0" hspace="0" allowfullscreen="true" style="left: 0px; top: 0px; position: absolute;" allowTransparency="true"></iframe></ins></ins>

isadore;1738848 wrote:gosh a ruddies and how did the Bible define marriage:

[h=3]What the Bible says about Polygamy[/h]<dl> <dt>Genesis 4:19 <dd>And Lamech took unto him two wives. <dt>Genesis 16:1-4 <dd>Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived. <dt>Genesis 25:6 <dd>But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had.... <dt>Genesis 26:34 <dd>Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. <dt>Genesis 31:17 <dd>Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels. <dt>Exodus 21:10 <dd>If he take him another wife.... <dt>Deuteronomy 21:15 <dd>If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated.... <dt>Judges 8:30 <dd>And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives. <dt>1 Samuel 1:1-2 <dd>Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah. <dt>2 Samuel 12:7-8 <dd>Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives.... <dt>1 Kings 11:2-3 <dd>Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines. <dt>1 Chronicles 4:5 <dd>And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah. <dt>2 Chronicles 11:21 <dd>Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines. <dt>2 Chronicles 13:21 <dd>But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives.... <dt>2 Chronicles 24:3 <dd>Jehoiada took for him two wives.... <dt>Mt.25:1 <dd>Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. </dd></dl>[HR][/HR]<!--webbot bot="Include" U-Include="../ads/bottom.html" TAG="BODY" startspan --> <ins id="aswift_0_expand" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: currentColor; width: 728px; height: 90px; display: inline-table; visibility: visible; position: relative; background-color: transparent; border-image: none;"><ins id="aswift_0_anchor" style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: currentColor; width: 728px; height: 90px; display: block; visibility: visible; position: relative; background-color: transparent; border-image: none;"><iframe name="aswift_0" width="728" height="90" id="aswift_0" frameBorder="0" marginWidth="0" marginHeight="0" scrolling="no" vspace="0" hspace="0" allowfullscreen="true" style="left: 0px; top: 0px; position: absolute;" allowTransparency="true"></iframe></ins></ins>

Fail!

You obviously don't know the difference between the New and old testament.

HitsRus;1738833 wrote:....further elaborating....
As in the case that Highroller74 cited a few posts back, a business providing "marriage services" for profit, would be forced under law to provide services for gay unions, even if it was vehemently against the religion of the owners. By properly defining the term, the 14 th amendment is satisfied without the state forcing people to do something against their religion. When you go to McDonalds you can order anything you want on the menu and they must serve you no matter your race religion, gender, etc etc. but you can't walk in and demand they serve you filet mignon because it is not on the menu. Like wise, same sex couples should not expect to go into a place offering Christian marriage services and demand a gay civil union service, because that is simply not on the menu.

Now I expect progressadore to get on here and call it bigotry and call me the same, but it is really about allowing people freedom to live their lives as happily as possible and as free from government encumbrances as possible. Gay couples should have no problem finding people to provide civil union services without having to force someone to provide it... Just because ......

So if a photographer, baker or florist offer their services to the public, they should provide them to gays for the marriage celebration.<o></o>
Religions do not own the word marriage. Gosh a ruddies they should have copyrighted it. Guess they screwed up.<o></o>

Shane Falco;1738849 wrote:Fail!

You obviously don't know the difference between the New and old testament.

gosh a ruddies :Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, &#8216;The Scripture cannot be broken&#8217; (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as &#8216;the commandment of God&#8217; (Matthew 15:3) and as the &#8216;Word of God&#8217; (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: &#8216;Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished&#8217; (Matthew 5:18).


http://www.bethinking.org/bible/q-how-did-jesus-view-the-old-testament

2 Timothy 2:15

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

isadore;1738853 wrote:gosh a ruddies :Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God. He said, &#8216;The Scripture cannot be broken&#8217; (John 10:35). He referred to Scripture as &#8216;the commandment of God&#8217; (Matthew 15:3) and as the &#8216;Word of God&#8217; (Mark 7:13). He also indicated that it was indestructible: &#8216;Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished&#8217; (Matthew 5:18).


http://www.bethinking.org/bible/q-how-did-jesus-view-the-old-testament

&#8230;37And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.' 38"This is the great and foremost commandment. 39"The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'&#8230;

He also said love your neighbor as much as yourself, and if you are doing that you are more likely going to be the peacemaker versus the divider. This is, in my opinion, where religion is going wrong. If they were using this advice, I think the nation would be looking at Christians as the "role models" of how to live a purposeful life versus being the bigot-enemies.

HitsRus;1738784 wrote:If your objection is that it is not a historically accurate document, that is irrelevant. There is no doubt that it has been around for thousands of years, people have lived their lives according to its precepts which forms the basis of our morality and relationship to one another and our laws. Over 80% of our citizens believe in God, and their ability to have a relationship with their God and the free exercise of their religion is guaranteed by the Constitution.

It's a book that people cherry-pick which aspects relate to their lives and which aspects are irrelevant today due to being based on an outdated society. If you want to follow religion, cool. If you want to use that book as a method of governing others' lives, then you better be following every single word and not, say, cherrypicking how homosexuality is a sin and its participants shouldn't be allowed to marry, while ignoring stuff that just isn't convenient to follow.

Then again, when it comes to actually following the word, people on this site are abject failures since there is the one line about "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" and a person could make a good living if they were paid to find incidents of people figuratively throwing stones at others here.

isadore;1738850 wrote:So if a photographer, baker or florist offer their services to the public, they should provide them to gays for the marriage celebration.<o></o>
Religions do not own the word marriage. Gosh a ruddies they should have copyrighted it. Guess they screwed up.<o></o>

So you feel someone should be forced to do something even if it is against their religious beliefs? Let's just ignore the first amendment.

Al Bundy;1738858 wrote:So you feel someone should be forced to do something even if it is against their religious beliefs? Let's just ignore the first amendment.

and many had belief based on Bible verse that intermarriage with blacks was wrong, that any type of racial intermixing was wrong, they should be allowed according to you to act on those beliefs. That is what good old Bob Jones University did, supposedly based on their interpretation of the Bible.

So if a photographer, baker or florist offer their services for civil unions/ ceremonies to the public, they should provide them to gays for the celebration.>>

FIFY. Yes, if they do civil ceremonies for straight couples they cannot discriminate against gays.

isadore;1738861 wrote:and many had belief based on Bible verse that intermarriage with blacks was wrong, that any type of racial intermixing was wrong, they should be allowed according to you to act on those beliefs. That is what good old Bob Jones University did, supposedly based on their interpretation of the Bible.

You keep comparing being gay with being black. That is extremely racist and a horrible comparison. I'd pay money to see you go to East Cleveland and explain to people there that being black is the same as being gay.

Al Bundy;1738863 wrote:You keep comparing being gay with being black. That is extremely racist and a horrible comparison. I'd pay money to see you go to East Cleveland and explain to people there that being black is the same as being gay.

Which annoys the fuck out of me! I can't come out of any closet everyone can see that I'm black lol.

Al Bundy;1738863 wrote:You keep comparing being gay with being black. That is extremely racist and a horrible comparison. I'd pay money to see you go to East Cleveland and explain to people there that being black is the same as being gay.

Gosh a ruddies:
1. The original subject was whether someone should have to provide a service to someone if they the marriage was against their beliefs. And I provided the example of a University opposing interracial marriage on religious grounds. Your answer to project your homophobia on African Americans.
2. Blacks are similar to gays in that they are part of a group that have a history of facing prejudice as have such diverse groups as Kurds, Cheyenne and left handed.

HitsRus;1738862 wrote:FIFY. Yes, if they do civil ceremonies for straight couples they cannot discriminate against gays.

gosh a ruddies
do these folks marry divorced people, do they do mixed marriages, do they do marriages of people who can not have children?

Serious question. Why would you sue someone to force them to be a part of your wedding?

isadore;1738871 wrote:Blacks are similar to gays in that they are part of a group that have a history of facing prejudice as have such diverse groups as Kurds, Cheyenne and left handed.

How is being black similar to being left-handed?

As a proud left-handed person, I now am demanding mah reparations for being prejudiced against my entire life. Those left-handed scissors I had to use back in elementary school sucked compared to the right-handed model.

Heretic;1738882 wrote:As a proud left-handed person, I now am demanding mah reparations for being prejudiced against my entire life. Those left-handed scissors I had to use back in elementary school sucked compared to the right-handed model.

Lol......and if mlb wasn't against left-handed shortstops, you'd be a millionaire.

Al Bundy;1738880 wrote:How is being black similar to being left-handed?

How is being black similar to being left-handed?[/QUOTE]both groups minorities defined by a characteristic that they were born with and who faced prejudice. In language right means correct. Left is derived from the anglo-saxon word for weak. In Latin sinister meant left. This type association is found in the major languages of the world. Carries over into expressions like to have two left feet or a left handed compliment. We talk about the Right Hand of God, not the left. To carry over into another prejudice, gay were describes as being left handed in 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century Europe. Schools well into the 20[SUP]th[/SUP] Century punished children for writing with their left hand and forced them to write with the right hand. Many tools are made for the right handed and more difficult for lefties to use like scissors, camera, some computer input devises, vast majority of firearms, school desks, even pencil sharpeners.<o></o>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-handed_people#Disparaging_associations_in_language<o></o>
<o></o>

Heretic;1738882 wrote:As a proud left-handed person, I now am demanding mah reparations for being prejudiced against my entire life. Those left-handed scissors I had to use back in elementary school sucked compared to the right-handed model.

Those were separate but equal.

Heretic;1738882 wrote:As a proud left-handed person, I now am demanding mah reparations for being prejudiced against my entire life. Those left-handed scissors I had to use back in elementary school sucked compared to the right-handed model.

Don't give the liberals any more ideas.