Old Rider;1751158 wrote:The current 7th grade team has gotten pounded every game this season. This same class went undefeated as 6th graders in the pee-wee league with other teams from this county. Size of schools in the OCC even at the middle school level has had a huge impact on participation numbers also.

Time will tell with all that...that Pee-wee system in general needs to go IMO. That was the start of a very big problem for Orrville Football.

Its interesting you think your Pee-wee football program has caused such harm to your high school program. I can give you tons of examples of schools that struggled greatly until a little kids program was installed. Ashland had no program before Coach V came in 2003 in which he took over a bad program. Along with Hillsdale and Mapelton the three schools ran a great pee-wee program and continue to do so. Mapelton has since started doing their own thing, but all three programs are much much better then they were before the program started.

unc4life;1751389 wrote:Its interesting you think your Pee-wee football program has caused such harm to your high school program. I can give you tons of examples of schools that struggled greatly until a little kids program was installed. Ashland had no program before Coach V came in 2003 in which he took over a bad program. Along with Hillsdale and Mapelton the three schools ran a great pee-wee program and continue to do so. Mapelton has since started doing their own thing, but all three programs are much much better then they were before the program started.

IDK the situation in Orrville but I do think there is a lot more to a pee wee program than just starting one? Obviously, but where I live now they have had a program for a while and it has had no real measurable affect. I watched a few practices while waiting for my son's flag game to start and I can tell you they have 15 different coaches teaching 50 different things. I think these kinds of programs CAN work if the are run as a part of something larger and the overall program is always the driving force. I mean Jr. High coaches should be involved in assisting the coaches in what they want the boys to understand when they get to Jr. high, and the High school staff should be involved in what they see being important for the Jr. High kids... Needs to be a chain of building blocks and foster excitement. IDK, but I think it is REALLY easy to get it wrong. Easier to get it wrong than right.

sanitizer..i agree with you, a well run program has all of its parts from pee-wee to middle school to high school on the same page. I work more on the basketball side of things, and over the years it amazes me the number of schools that have a jr high program that has nothing to do with the high school program. If you want to succeed everyone must be on the same page.

unc4life;1751389 wrote:Its interesting you think your Pee-wee football program has caused such harm to your high school program. I can give you tons of examples of schools that struggled greatly until a little kids program was installed. Ashland had no program before Coach V came in 2003 in which he took over a bad program. Along with Hillsdale and Mapelton the three schools ran a great pee-wee program and continue to do so. Mapelton has since started doing their own thing, but all three programs are much much better then they were before the program started.

Since Pee wee went in the numbers of football players in High school and Jr. high have gone no place but down. Before Redrider jumps on me I know there are more reasons than just this. Here is my thought. Before the pee wee system kids did not get the chance to play in pads until 7th grade. Everyone wanted to so the numbers were extremely high. Each year that number goes down and by 12th grade the best kids are left.

Now we start weeding the kids out earlier and the numbers drop even before you get to 7th grade.

unc4life you bring up Ashland and I would add lets look at Coldwater. They are in the hunt every year and those kids DO NOT play pee wee of any kind.

Coldwater might not play pee-wee football but I highly doubt that no kid in that town does not play tackle football before 7th grade. I also believe that if a kid decides before middle school he doesn't want to play football, not starting him till middle school probably wont make that much of a difference, he probably wont end up playing in high school anyway. Kids stop playing sports all the time for different reasons. I've seen kids who were great in middle school, never show up in high school. I think the hard thing for most in Orrville is the history is so good, that, that alone should carry the program. The problem is that sometimes the the people outside the program want the program to succeed more then the people in it, and thats a major problem.

rrfan;1751429 wrote:Since Pee wee went in the numbers of football players in High school and Jr. high have gone no place but down. Before Redrider jumps on me I know there are more reasons than just this. Here is my thought. Before the pee wee system kids did not get the chance to play in pads until 7th grade. Everyone wanted to so the numbers were extremely high. Each year that number goes down and by 12th grade the best kids are left.

Now we start weeding the kids out earlier and the numbers drop even before you get to 7th grade.

unc4life you bring up Ashland and I would add lets look at Coldwater. They are in the hunt every year and those kids DO NOT play pee wee of any kind.

Just so you know your coach is very much in favor of the pee wee program. If it doesn't work why wouldn't he be stopping it?

Its real simple...we dont have the athletes in our system that we had for so many years. Pee Wee or no Pee Wee...Flag Football or no Flag Football... We have low enrollment numbers and it is affecting not only our school, but others around us. The move to the PAC is gonna help....but give it time!

unc4life;1751443 wrote:Coldwater might not play pee-wee football but I highly doubt that no kid in that town does not play tackle football before 7th grade. I also believe that if a kid decides before middle school he doesn't want to play football, not starting him till middle school probably wont make that much of a difference, he probably wont end up playing in high school anyway. Kids stop playing sports all the time for different reasons. I've seen kids who were great in middle school, never show up in high school. I think the hard thing for most in Orrville is the history is so good, that, that alone should carry the program. The problem is that sometimes the the people outside the program want the program to succeed more then the people in it, and thats a major problem.

Well we don't agree here. Coldwater kids play together back yard football and things but not pee wee system and I don't know this for a fact but have heard no flag system.

In Football you know kids are going to drop off every year it is just how it is. But if you have 10-12 kids less to start you are in a bad place from the beginning. Yes many would probably not end up being a star in high school but you need some numbers.

Red Rider Nation- I don't agree with Coach Davault on the pee wee system, but that does not make me think he is bad and should go. Vince Lombardi would not win with what is out there right now.

rrfan;1751520 wrote:Well we don't agree here. Coldwater kids play together back yard football and things but not pee wee system and I don't know this for a fact but have heard no flag system.

In Football you know kids are going to drop off every year it is just how it is. But if you have 10-12 kids less to start you are in a bad place from the beginning. Yes many would probably not end up being a star in high school but you need some numbers.

Red Rider Nation- I don't agree with Coach Davault on the pee wee system, but that does not make me think he is bad and should go. Vince Lombardi would not win with what is out there right now.

Improvements have been made to the flag program. Long overdue but it needs time to be implemented.

I wont argue with anyone who thinks tackle isn't a benefit....we'll disagree on the matter, but I'm sure there are kids who try it out in 4th grade and get hurt or just don't enjoy it and football isn't an option the next year. Same thing can happen in flag football while we're at it. It's all about the experience for the kid and how leagues are organized and ran.

As far as Coldwater...they're a completely different animal. Those are farm kids. They work on the farm before and after school in addition to school work and athletics. The effort to lift weights and work hard is almost a break from farm work for them. It's a huge German Catholic area. Two parents, go to church, work hard, play hard type of community. We USED to be that.

There are youth leagues around Coldwater, lets not pretend they have never heard of football before 7th grade. Celina is 12 minutes away and have youth football beginning in kindergarten. So while it may not exist in Coldwater, it's available close by.

Also no soccer in Coldwater. Helps numbers when you're not competing with other sports. There's only 1 school in Coldwater's conference has soccer...and that's because they're so small they don't have football.

Not as many farm kids as you may think. In that part of the state soccer is high school girls sport at many district so boys can play golf, football or cross country only. They currently have 86 roster-ed players in high school and 25 seniors. I read a lot of blame for changes being put on "today's kids" but I say they are being raised by today's parents. That is the reason for most of the differences from the history we speak of.

An-Old-Fan;1751636 wrote:Not as many farm kids as you may think. In that part of the state soccer is high school girls sport at many district so boys can play golf, football or cross country only. They currently have 86 roster-ed players in high school and 25 seniors. I read a lot of blame for changes being put on "today's kids" but I say they are being raised by today's parents. That is the reason for most of the differences from the history we speak of.

BINGO!!! Absolutely agree...kids are molded by their parents and if hard work and toughness are not being taught at an early age...then we see the results as they currently are with our football team!

An-Old-Fan;1751636 wrote:Not as many farm kids as you may think. In that part of the state soccer is high school girls sport at many district so boys can play golf, football or cross country only. They currently have 86 roster-ed players in high school and 25 seniors. I read a lot of blame for changes being put on "today's kids" but I say they are being raised by today's parents. That is the reason for most of the differences from the history we speak of.

Take a bow, drop the mic, walk off stage. This (OMHO) is the largest contributing factor to many of the issues that plague sports and our society today. Much more was expected of us so much more was given. If we EXPECT kids to behave a particular way you can be 90% sure they will live up to those expectations. I know I am not perfect as a parent but the biggest compliment I can receive is hearing my siblings say "Geesh you act JUST like dad"! You bet I do! The same parents who push blame EVERYWHERE but between the front and back door of their house. But we live in a culture that feeds this "selfie centered" culture..... Really hard situation, these parents are also the ones who "Let" the kids walk away from a commitment they make to a team, club, or any extra activity.... What we have come to accept from these young people has changed so why wouldn't THEY change????

Guys all I keep hearing on here is "Poor Orrville". Excuses as to why kids aren't coming out for football. Look all around your surrounding communities where the complete opposite is taking place. This is arguably the best the Wayne County Athletic league has ever been! In addition tonite's Fox 8 game of the week is Rittman/Chippewa! Look around you in Orrville on Friday nights if you do actually go to a game!! A lot more has changed than kids not coming out. Your community doesnt either. People want change! They may not say it on here but believe me I have had several conversations with folk I won't say names. Names that you would be shocked to hear. Change your leadership and the results will change too!

Red Rider Nation;1751690 wrote:Guys all I keep hearing on here is "Poor Orrville". Excuses as to why kids aren't coming out for football. Look all around your surrounding communities where the complete opposite is taking place. This is arguably the best the Wayne County Athletic league has ever been! In addition tonite's Fox 8 game of the week is Rittman/Chippewa! Look around you in Orrville on Friday nights if you do actually go to a game!! A lot more has changed than kids not coming out. Your community doesnt either. People want change! They may not say it on here but believe me I have had several conversations with folk I won't say names. Names that you would be shocked to hear. Change your leadership and the results will change too!

WCAL is not even close to the best it has ever been. Chippewa is the only true contender. A few years back you had Waynedale/Northwestern/Hillsdale as legit playoff contenders. Smithville/Norwayne, Before that Waynedale/Dalton/Smithville. Smithville/Dalton. Waynedale/Dalton/Chippewa. Ect... I'll take the 95-2005 WCAL over anything this year. There is zero argument this year. 1 team is a legit team and even they have a few questions with their schedule. Waynedale was the challenger I thought. They lost tonight. Smithville lost tonight. It will be a dog fight for 2nd and a first round game that I believe could be a big disappointing loss.

Triway is down in numbers this year, Waynedale has been very up and down the last few, but are on an upswing this year. Dalton has next to nothing, Hillsdale is up/down, and Smithville has been low until this year. It's cycles. It's small school football, which is what Orrville is now a member of. Numbers are positive right now with 40+ this year. That is good, but the last few years our numbers have been garbage because a very, very, very low percentage of that class participated in sports. It looks like the freshman this year are bucking that trend. Blaming it on our leadership is asinine.

Please direct me to the "Poor Orrville" comments. Most of those type of comments I believe you are referencing, are truths that you refuse to believe.

Oldest Rider2;1751749 wrote:WCAL is not even close to the best it has ever been. Chippewa is the only true contender. A few years back you had Waynedale/Northwestern/Hillsdale as legit playoff contenders. Smithville/Norwayne, Before that Waynedale/Dalton/Smithville. Smithville/Dalton. Waynedale/Dalton/Chippewa. Ect... I'll take the 95-2005 WCAL over anything this year. There is zero argument this year. 1 team is a legit team and even they have a few questions with their schedule. Waynedale was the challenger I thought. They lost tonight. Smithville lost tonight. It will be a dog fight for 2nd and a first round game that I believe could be a big disappointing loss.

Triway is down in numbers this year, Waynedale has been very up and down the last few, but are on an upswing this year. Dalton has next to nothing, Hillsdale is up/down, and Smithville has been low until this year. It's cycles. It's small school football, which is what Orrville is now a member of. Numbers are positive right now with 40+ this year. That is good, but the last few years our numbers have been garbage because a very, very, very low percentage of that class participated in sports. It looks like the freshman this year are bucking that trend. Blaming it on our leadership is asinine.

Please direct me to the "Poor Orrville" comments. Most of those type of comments I believe you are referencing, are truths that you refuse to believe.

Actually they are excuses and no I will NOT buy into them!

Red Rider Nation;1751770 wrote:Actually they are excuses and no I will NOT buy into them!

I thought you weren't going to comment here anymore because you were following St Peters school of blind children? or something?

sanitizer;1751669 wrote:Take a bow, drop the mic, walk off stage. This (OMHO) is the largest contributing factor to many of the issues that plague sports and our society today. Much more was expected of us so much more was given. If we EXPECT kids to behave a particular way you can be 90% sure they will live up to those expectations. I know I am not perfect as a parent but the biggest compliment I can receive is hearing my siblings say "Geesh you act JUST like dad"! You bet I do! The same parents who push blame EVERYWHERE but between the front and back door of their house. But we live in a culture that feeds this "selfie centered" culture..... Really hard situation, these parents are also the ones who "Let" the kids walk away from a commitment they make to a team, club, or any extra activity.... What we have come to accept from these young people has changed so why wouldn't THEY change????

Man...this sounds eerily familiar...I know I have seen this before?!?!?!?!:huh:

An-Old-Fan;1751636 wrote:Not as many farm kids as you may think. In that part of the state soccer is high school girls sport at many district so boys can play golf, football or cross country only. They currently have 86 roster-ed players in high school and 25 seniors. I read a lot of blame for changes being put on "today's kids" but I say they are being raised by today's parents. That is the reason for most of the differences from the history we speak of.

Old Rider;1751644 wrote:BINGO!!! Absolutely agree...kids are molded by their parents and if hard work and toughness are not being taught at an early age...then we see the results as they currently are with our football team!

Man these sound eerily familiar...I know I have seen this posted on another forum...I know I have?!?!?!?!:huh:

1_beast;1751924 wrote:I thought you weren't going to comment here anymore because you were following St Peters school of blind children? or something?

You are a class act!

Red Rider Nation;1751957 wrote:You are a class act!

You are undefeated as a player. I don't know why people don't take you more seriously.

Red Rider Nation;1751770 wrote:Actually they are excuses and no I will NOT buy into them!

Ok. Keep your head in the clouds and continue to live in 1996 Orrville. That will solve all these problems that will be fixed immediately with a leadership change.

Al Bundy;1751979 wrote:You are undefeated as a player. I don't know why people don't take you more seriously.

I would love to see Mr. Heisman steer us in the right direction.

Oldest Rider2;1751988 wrote:I would love to see Mr. Heisman steer us in the right direction.

I would love to! Call me up 330-605-6038

Red Rider Nation;1752070 wrote:I would love to! Call me up 330-605-6038

The Troll King is going to get jealous if you are giving out your number to other men.