Cthelites;1713659 wrote:You answered your own question! Not all the coaches know all the stats and h2h results

Tony,

I agree with Cthelites... How are coaches suppose to know every little h2h stat? If we waited til after states, others would have an argument such as Gio over Transue. I believe Transue beat Gio 2 or 3 times and Gio got the better of him at states. Information needs to be brought to these meetings to help with other coaches that do not get to see the kids wrestle or know every tournament result. Do you expect a Division 3 coach to know what goes on between this? No, he has his own wrestlers to worry about. Also, congratulations to your boy on a great year!!

Ty for the congrats, and your points are exactly why i made this post! Cthelites made the best points on his last post. All results are one click away from almost all these results???? I know for a fact the d3 coach on the first team selection at 106 knows all these results why wouldnt any other coaches know? Like I said earlier I coached alot of years and i always knew all results from all weight classes, I still do. your all out of excuses. STATS ARE FACTS! Watch the show or click on the stats link! You dont have to wait tell after state to read results its a long season. the coaches are voting the day after one tournament of the year and basing EVERYTHING off that one tournament. Fix it its easy! Or continue to bow down to some sub par newspaper, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Like I said earlier onto Natys!

if it does not happen in d-1 it really did not happen.

I think a lot of comes down to: What is All-Metro supposed to represent?

Is it body of work or most accomplished?

As I think Newbie pointed out, if you make it after the State meet, State results are going to outweigh everything in most coaches mind, in my opinion.

I'm of the view that State is its own reward and All-Metro should be more of a body of work notion with some finite cutoff. I personally don't think that doing after Districts is a horrible idea. Coming after Sectionals & Districts, it sort of neutralizes the strength of schedule debate, etc.

Take the HWT all-metros for instance. I'd argue that they got it right. Throw Caldwell out of the debate for a moment (because I think he clearly deserved first team) and focus on Teacher and Crumb. Teacher had the far better regular season and won the H2H matchups. He had a disappointing State meet and Crumb wrestled well and ended up with the Runner-up. Had the vote come after State, Crumb might have ended up being 2nd team in front of Teacher. While he no doubt ended up with the greater single accomplishment, I think it is tough to argue that he had the better body of work and/or had the better the season.

If I had a vote, and I don't, I'd leave it where it is timing wise and focus on the information flow.

Dust_E_Roads;1714103 wrote:I think a lot of comes down to: What is All-Metro supposed to represent?

Is it body of work or most accomplished?

As I think Newbie pointed out, if you make it after the State meet, State results are going to outweigh everything in most coaches mind, in my opinion.

I'm of the view that State is its own reward and All-Metro should be more of a body of work notion with some finite cutoff. I personally don't think that doing after Districts is a horrible idea. Coming after Sectionals & Districts, it sort of neutralizes the strength of schedule debate, etc.

Take the HWT all-metros for instance. I'd argue that they got it right. Throw Caldwell out of the debate for a moment (because I think he clearly deserved first team) and focus on Teacher and Crumb. Teacher had the far better regular season and won the H2H matchups. He had a disappointing State meet and Crumb wrestled well and ended up with the Runner-up. Had the vote come after State, Crumb might have ended up being 2nd team in front of Teacher. While he no doubt ended up with the greater single accomplishment, I think it is tough to argue that he had the better body of work and/or had the better the season.

If I had a vote, and I don't, I'd leave it where it is timing wise and focus on the information flow.

Great point...But the coaches need to attend the meetings and promote the wrestlers...That's part of being a coach, if the head coach can't attend then send an asst coach...Yea, I get certain schools don't like the preview event, state duals but attend meetings and promote your athletes ! JMO

coaches should attend the meeting sunday morning at roosters the day after being away from their families all weekend? I wouldnt want my coaches doing that, FAMILY comes first, sorry its broke, fix it! Stats are facts!

who's in charged anyways? I will just email them stats every year.

Stats-
Brooks- 3rd at Medina, Champion at CIT, Nelsonville York, Groveport, Sectional and District. Pinned and teched his way through the district tournament!
Chase- District champ who beat the Transue in the finals! Darn good win in the biggest tournament of the year to that point!
Fogle- district champ

The coaches are in charge and this is the system that has been used for years. There is little argument. To say that district champs should not be recognized is incorrect. Of course if we waited until after the state, things would probably change. That would be the same case if we did an All Metro team at the beginning of the season or in the middle. Match results change throughout the year, but we have to look at the most recent results and go off of what we know. To say that every coach should know the results of every wrestler, from every team, in all of their matches, is just not logical. It is not the job of a coach to argue the case of wrestlers from other schools. As was stated above, we have families, and other things going on outside of our coaching duties. Coaches have the time to go through their own wrestlers stats, and prepare arguments when needed.



The coaches in this instance, went off the most important tournament of the year, at that point. There were 3 district champs in each weight class. That's where we start and then go from there.

If you want us to wait until after the state tournament, then we will lose an opportunity to have our athletes recognized on the biggest weekend of the year for wrestling. We have to work with the Dispatch and when they want to print this. If that is not OK, then you can write the Dispatch and talk to them about their wrestling coverage and see if you can get it changed. Until then, this is the system. Congrats to the guys who made the All Metro team.

Great points huntergreen26! Who would you replace? Chase who won the district and beat the kid that beat Mead? Brooks who also was a district champ and split with Chase plus an impressive 3rd at Medina after an opening round loss to Chase? The D2 Champ just because he is D2? Transue who won his latest match against Mead? I think Mead is worthy but somebody has to be displaced if he is on the list.

I know who the best 4 wrestlers are at 106 in the all metro, as does every other coach in central ohio. you all are talking in circles, the conversation ended a long time ago, its broke and it needs fixed, but like cruiser said the only way to keep the dispatch involved the very little they are is to suck it up and do what they want. Mead and Brooks are by far the best two kids in central ohio. They have beaten everyone else. Ask the other kids on the list what they think. Chase had 3 chances vs mead 18 minutes and didnt score a single offensive point. (sectional finals was 11-1 vs Mead) half you coaches watched this match! Chase did beat brooks the first time brooks made scratch but Brooks beat him again out back. Fogel did not score a single point on mead either. At this point I have been over it but you guys keep blowing smoke up each others behinds talking in circles. Final results can be found at Baums page, those are the best kids in the state of ohio not just central Ohio.

Yes mead had a bad match at districts, it did not phase him and he should not be punished by it. Just in case you all need me to do the research for you. Mead D1 2nd place, Brooks D3 5th place, Chase D1 7th place. Transue DNP Fogel DNP These were the top three according to results all SEASON long, The top 3 before districts and the top three after districts. but you coaches want to vote on one single day, where injuries, illness or shyt draws come into play. Its been like this for a long time, and its been broke for a long time. This day an age all these results are minutes away on your phone before you carelessly cast your votes..... just saying Now if you guys can't see what I am telling you, lets see who the best kids are in the NATION!

I remember one time Kid A was 3-0 against Kid B (7-0, 6-1, 11-2). Kid A got All-Metro. Later that week, Kid B outplaced Kid A at the state tournament.

Heres the rub: All-Metro selection done prior to the state tournament, Kid A gets All-Metro selection. Post state tournament, it goes to a coaches vote. Very few people are going to pick an 8 in the state over a 3 in the state. And if the coaches do, they'll read forum posts about how stupid coaches are, 3rd place is higher than 8th place, the STATE TOURNAMENT is the pinnacle of the tournament process, etc. Would really hate to base the vote off of one tournament, eh?

My kid went 3-0 and placed higher and a better record ya dig?

It only seems to be broke to one person and if you look at Football or other sports they do not wait till the all-state teams are picked or anything like that the all-metro team has always been a subjective team there are no set rules that say this kid must be above that kid based on this set item and I really don't see the point about a coaches time every coach has a family they want to spend time with if those coaches took the time to show up and another didn't it's not there job to look up anything for another teams wrestler. Also look at 160 the 1st and 2nd team kids wrestled a bunch this season the first team kid lost in the regular season but won sectionals and district then lost at state. Point is it happens at other weights also state is it's own reward and everyone I have talked to about it is fine with the current system make time for the meeting or know if you don't it's on you. Liberty has a great head coach and wrestling in the State Finals far out weigh being named to any local team I don't see the need to drag kids through the mud on a public forum this will change nothing these arguments should be brought to the Central District coaches meetings among coaches.

merica, just vote the way the commercials tell you to, or in this case the kid that won the next to last tourney. (o:

would love to know whos in charge or who to contact, which was the point of this post. I would gladly send a kind email to those folks. Most all of you have spoke in cirlces on here blowing smoke up my arse without giving me what i really need or spoke without reading the previous post. Stats are Facts, read them before you post nonsense. Not sure who to contact but for the love of baby jesus just give me a email or coach thats in charged instead of your idiotic opinions! 3 pages of crap, can someone please post a email or contact! Thank you!

Tony Mead;1715514 wrote: 3 pages of crap, can someone please post a email or contact! Thank you!

Google is your best friend....

http://www.cdwca.org/

The fact is you could care less how it's picked only that your son is not on if he had been I'm sure this entire thread would be about how great the Metro team is if you wanted to know who to contact it's pretty clear the CDWCA is who to contact the only one talking out their arse is you.

Wow, hard to believe this topic is still alive! :RpS_blink:

Like my grandfather always told me, "if you argue with a fool, then it's hard to tell who the fool is!"

tried to end it but everyone kept having to add their two cents, I cant change stats they are facts, was just looking for away to correct the wrong, but forgot you guys all do what the dispatch wants you to do. Instead of the All Metro Team it should be called the columbus dispatch Central district team then everything would make much more sense, cause thats exactly what this is.

The fact that this thread got so far off track does not mean that the original question is still not valid. Regardless of who sponsors the All Metro team, should the team be chosen based on the results of the district tournaments alone or should it be based on the entirety of the season up to and including the districts? Currently, it seems coach voting only takes place when you have cross division questions.

Somebody used football All Metro as an example. That team is not chosen based on individual performance during one event in the post season. It is based on the entire season up to the point the team is released. Electing the team prior to the state tourney is not the issue. It is fine to release after districts, but should it take into account the body of work and not just district placing? Using 106 as the example... forget about Mead's state tourney performance, it would be hard to argue that his entire performance thru Districts would not merit a top 4 placement on the All-Metro team. Kinda hard to believe there is not a better way to do it when one sees such an obvious omission.

KSU55;1715795 wrote: Regardless of who sponsors the All Metro team, should the team be chosen based on the results of the district tournaments alone

Don't think that is what is presently happening nor is that what anyone has suggested, have they?

KSU55;1715795 wrote: or should it be based on the entirety of the season up to and including the districts? .

I think this is what is, has been, and should be happening.




As I look a the list, most names are hard to argue with, in my opinion. Seems we're getting wrapped around the axel on the exception rather than the rule.

IN my personal opinion, doing after Districts is about the perfect time. Most local and levelized field. I think if it was put off until after the State meet, State results would outweigh everything and State is its own separate award, IMO. Just my two cents.

excellent points kSU! I contacted the committee and gave them my ideas, alot about the entire season, records, head to head, percentages of the season wrestling at that weight class, strength of schedule. All the rankings that are out there, especially ITC, all the results, If your coach is not in attendance the kid should not get punished. To much goes into a season for one match to derail a kids chances of being part of something of this caliber. I have spoken my thoughts, now let the thread die, Unless you all want to keep talking in circles, I can go on for days! (o:

Dust_E_Roads;1715846 wrote:Don't think that is what is presently happening nor is that what anyone has suggested, have they?



I think this is what is, has been, and should be happening.




As I look a the list, most names are hard to argue with, in my opinion. Seems we're getting wrapped around the axel on the exception rather than the rule.

IN my personal opinion, doing after Districts is about the perfect time. Most local and levelized field. I think if it was put off until after the State meet, State results would outweigh everything and State is its own separate award, IMO. Just my two cents.

the 106 results are based solely on district results, not one aspect of the season was figured into that vote. all the points have been made thruout this post and to the committee.

I am not sure how they did things but i would assume each coach had a list of the district champs and just went down and checked them all and were done. I have figured all other ways to find no conclusion of how they voted 2nd and 3rd teams above the rest. This is not my opinion, this is based on stats from the ENTIRE season. In most cases this works, in some it dosent, Trying to make sure that some dosent get the end results in the future.

Tony Mead;1715851 wrote: i would assume each coach had a list of the district champs and just went down and checked them all and were done.

Shame on anyone who voted that way then.

All I'll say is that more information is available to them, if they decide to take the vote seriously. And, in my opinion, the timing (after District, but before State) is ideal (in my opinion. Others are free to disagree).

Dust_E_Roads;1715846 wrote:Don't think that is what is presently happening nor is that what anyone has suggested, have they?



I think this is what is, has been, and should be happening.




As I look a the list, most names are hard to argue with, in my opinion. Seems we're getting wrapped around the axel on the exception rather than the rule.

IN my personal opinion, doing after Districts is about the perfect time. Most local and levelized field. I think if it was put off until after the State meet, State results would outweigh everything and State is its own separate award, IMO. Just my two cents.

That is exactly what was suggested:

These are voted on by the coaches the day after the district. The dispatch demands it is done that way so that they can release the team picture during state weekend. In my opinion...they want to only run a single weekend of wrestling coverage all year so they force it to be done this way. There were only about 30 total coaches at this years meeting. Quite a few kids on the list were spoken for by other coaches who had seen them this season. I know I tried to help a few kids whose coaches weren't in attendance.

It pretty much works like this: District champs are 1st unless there are more than 1 or a head to head that overrides it. Then work your way down the district placement using the same logic. Many are no brainers, coaches vote when there is a dispute.

If you look at the results for 106 that is exactly what happened. The district winners were 1st thru 3rd team and D1 runner up was Honorable Mention. Look at all the other weights and one can assume a very similar process based on the results. There is no way an objective evaluation of complete body of work with H2H was ever considered let alone voted on. You could argue Brooks should be 1st based on his season. You could even argue Transue based on body of work and H2H over Mead. But to argue Chase or Fogle, as good as they are, is not objective or logical in any way. Mead had as good or better bodies of work when you look at who he beat and who he lost to, but dominated the H2H.


I have never spoken to Mead or his Dad, so this is not about defending a personal wrong. If the process to select the team is in fact as outlined above, that is fine as 106 played out just as explained. I just think that is a myopic and narrow criteria. If the process is not that cut and dry and includes objective evaluation of the entire season prior, 106 is a glaring example a failure somewhere. There seem to be others but 106 just stands out so is a good example.

Is Tony Mead actually Falcons81? I feel as if I have read all of this before.