Archive 2015 NFL Regular Season Chatter

Commander of Awesome

Posts: 23,151

Feb 17, 2015 10:23am

Lol dalton stinks azubuike

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 10:27am

Commander of Awesome;1706135 wrote:Lol dalton stinks azubuike

I like how Bengals fans disparage other QB's to make themselves feel better about Dalton.

Azubuike24

Posts: 15,933

Feb 17, 2015 10:33am

Commander of Awesome;1706135 wrote:Lol dalton stinks azubuike

Yes, I said as much.

My point was...if you define him as that, what have the others done besides be drafted high?

SportsAndLady

Posts: 35,632

Feb 17, 2015 10:36am

It amazes me how many times buike says on here, "it's amazing how many people say dalton sucks but________"

It's clockwork whenever a middle of the pack QB's debate comes up lol

Azubuike24

Posts: 15,933

Feb 17, 2015 10:38am

lhslep134;1706133 wrote:Because those guys are better at throwing the football than Dalton. I feel comfortable saying the Bengals would have won a playoff game by now with Ryan. Stafford, maybe, but I think Stafford is much closer to Dalton as a passer than Ryan. Stafford's got the arm strength but man does his accuracy leave him sometimes.

That being said, in my QB hierarchy it's not:

Ryan

Stafford
Dalton

But more like:

Ryan

Stafford
Dalton

I completely disagree. I'd take Stafford over both any day. Question remains, does Stafford or Ryan have "it" to where you would be confident on them in a clutch situation?

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 10:39am

Azubuike24;1706139 wrote: My point was...if you define him as that, what have the others done besides be drafted high?

Rate significantly better in stats/metrics. Win playoff games.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Dalton finished 25th in DVOA, at 3% worse than the average QB per play.

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 10:40am

Azubuike24;1706141 wrote:I completely disagree. I'd take Stafford over both any day. Question remains, does Stafford or Ryan have "it" to where you would be confident on them in a clutch situation?

The above chart shows why I'm not high on Stafford. You wanna talk about someone who isn't as good as perception? Stafford is that guy.

Even last year, Stafford was 15th in DVOA and Ryan was 8th.

So I'm baffled by your disagreement. You might be the first person I've seen that actually thinks Stafford is better than Ryan.

Laley23

Posts: 29,506

Feb 17, 2015 10:42am

Stafford can't beat anyone who is worth anything in the NFL.

But, while neither he, Ryan nor Dalton can win in December, at least the other 2 put up massive numbers with their great offensive talent. Dalton doesn't. Which is why is have him 3rd of those 3.

Azubuike24

Posts: 15,933

Feb 17, 2015 10:43am

SportsAndLady;1706140 wrote:It amazes me how many times buike says on here, "it's amazing how many people say dalton sucks but________"

It's clockwork whenever a middle of the pack QB's debate comes up lol

That's the thing, after last year I'm resigned to admitting that Dalton isn't great. But taking that on the surface, are any of the others? I will admit that I'd take Ryan and Stafford over Dalton, there's just a huge discrepency in perception.

The next one to debate is Ryan Tannehill.

Azubuike24

Posts: 15,933

Feb 17, 2015 10:45am

Ryan had the best season of the three last year, but it's hard to look at just a single season. Do you have the comparison of them over their career? I'd be curious to see it.

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 10:52am

Last 5 years DVOA (from 2014 to 2010):

M. Ryan: 9, 9, 8, 7, 7

Stafford: 22, 15, 12, 10, 21

Stafford over Ryan? lol

Commander of Awesome

Posts: 23,151

Feb 17, 2015 10:54am

lhslep134;1706142 wrote:Rate significantly better in stats/metrics. Win playoff games.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

Dalton finished 25th in DVOA, at 3% worse than the average QB per play.

According to this list, Hoyer was better than Kap, TBW, Newton, Carr, Mettenberger, Blake Bortles. Interesting, before this I'd think most ppl would take all of the mentioned over Hoyer.

Or should I focus on the Rank more?

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 10:58am

Here's the complete list. On a per play basis, yes, Hoyer was better than those guys.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 11:05am

COA, the numbers those guys put up in 2013 would be well above Hoyer this year. But those guys were pretty terrible this year.

like_that

Posts: 26,625

Feb 17, 2015 11:07am

Azubuike24;1706132 wrote:Besides put up inflated numbers with tons of great offensive talent around them, why should you be? It's amazing how people perceive that Dalton sucks but include these guys in the "great potential" category. Maybe it's the former top pick thing? In-terms of accomplishments, none have done anything.

Azubuike24;1706139 wrote:Yes, I said as much.

My point was...if you define him as that, what have the others done besides be drafted high?

Geezus, just give it up. Dalton sucks. Like I have said numerous times, if Dalton/Hoyer switch teams this past season, the results would have been the same for each team.

I agree that Stafford is overrated too though, but don't tell let classy know that. He thinks the lions starting roster has 22 HOFers on it.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Feb 17, 2015 11:23am

lhslep134;1706133 wrote:Because those guys are better at throwing the football than Dalton. I feel comfortable saying the Bengals would have won a playoff game by now with Ryan. Stafford, maybe, but I think Stafford is much closer to Dalton as a passer than Ryan. Stafford's got the arm strength but man does his accuracy leave him sometimes.

That being said, in my QB hierarchy it's not:

Ryan

Stafford
Dalton

But more like:

Ryan

Stafford
Dalton

Lol

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Feb 17, 2015 11:31am

Thanks for the metric lhs....I didn't like Brady that low and Eli is too high, but everything else looks good to me.

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 11:33am

Ironman92;1706161 wrote:Lol

??

Azubuike24

Posts: 15,933

Feb 17, 2015 12:01pm

Thanks for posting. Sounds like my own perception of Stafford is based on the same flaws I'm attacking.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Feb 17, 2015 2:53pm

lhslep134;1706163 wrote:??

It's not a metric but it means laughed out loud

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Feb 17, 2015 2:55pm

lhslep134;1706133 wrote:Because those guys are better at throwing the football than Dalton. I feel comfortable saying the Bengals would have won a playoff game by now with Ryan. Stafford, maybe, but I think Stafford is much closer to Dalton as a passer than Ryan. Stafford's got the arm strength but man does his accuracy leave him sometimes.

That being said, in my QB hierarchy it's not:

Ryan

Stafford
Dalton

But more like:

Ryan

Stafford
Dalton

I just found the little difference in the two humorous.

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 5:42pm

I92 some people use lol to mean laugh out loud, the OC uses it to laugh at an opinion, so I wasn't sure.

It was just another way to explain there's a gap between Ryan and Stafford/Dalton but to me it's not as big as some people might have it but my gap might be bigger than other's so I thought a visual would be useful.

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Feb 17, 2015 7:32pm

lhslep134;1706211 wrote:I92 some people use lol to mean laugh out loud, the OC uses it to laugh at an opinion, so I wasn't sure.

It was just another way to explain there's a gap between Ryan and Stafford/Dalton but to me it's not as big as some people might have it but my gap might be bigger than other's so I thought a visual would be useful.

I'm losing interest in this.

Are their any metrics to measure WR and cornerbacks? (I'm serious and interested in looking at those)

Ironman92

Posts: 49,363

Feb 17, 2015 7:32pm

* there

lhslep134

Posts: 9,774

Feb 17, 2015 7:39pm

Ironman92;1706218 wrote:
Are their any metrics to measure WR and cornerbacks? (I'm serious and interested in looking at those)

Same site, footballoutsiders. I'll link you to WRs. DVOA is value per play compared to average and DYAR (far left) is year end value. DVOA is a much more useful stat, IMO, because it's per play and gives you a percentage relative to the average that makes it easier to use.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr