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2015 Browns Offseason Thread

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BR1986FB

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Apr 23, 2015 1:03 PM
like_that;1723617 wrote:I would easily take their production, but it's not like those 2 are QBs who win games on their own. Everyone acts like you need a QB to single handed let win your games (Rodgers, Brady, luck, etc) and it's simply not the case. The Browns have the talent for a decent QB to thrive. Hell, even hoyer looked pretty damn serviceable until we lost Mack and our running game.
This has been my belief all along. Having that QB won't cure ALL ill's (shitty defense, no O-Line, etc) but it will help cover up some deficiences. I keep hearing double talk about "too many holes to fill" yet also "this team has a lot of talent." I'm one who doesn't think they have many holes to fill and can be a playoff contender with a good QB. I hate to borrow from dickwad over on his little thread but a good QB is going to keep defenses fresh (less '3 and outs') later in the game.

The name Russell Wilson keeps getting brought up. I heard one of the former NFL GM's say that Marcus Mariota's "upside" is a little better version of Russell Wilson (some have said Aaron Rodgers but I think it's BS) while his "downside" is a little better than Alex Smith. I'm not an Alex Smith fan but he'd look a helluva lot better in Brown & Orange than anything they currently have.
Apr 23, 2015 1:03pm
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like_that

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Apr 23, 2015 1:07 PM
SportsAndLady;1723618 wrote:Flacco is weird..he's not great but he's pretty damn good in the playoffs which is when it counts (if you get there).

Wilson is a stud imo

I would take either of those two qbs in a heartbeat. Flaccos contract though...
Russell Wilson is a better version of Alex smith imo. I'd be interested to see how he would perform without lynch and that defense. All he has to do is not fuck up and keep the chains moving here and there. Not as much pressure on him as most QBs in the NFL.
Apr 23, 2015 1:07pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 23, 2015 1:09 PM
like_that;1723625 wrote:Russell Wilson is a better version of Alex smith imo. I'd be interested to see how he would perform without lynch and that defense. All he has to do is not fuck up and keep the chains moving here and there. Not as much pressure on him as most QBs in the NFL.
Wilson, to me, is a better version of a game manager. He's not up there with the Luck's, Brady's, etc who are going to win games with their arms but he's not just a "hand it off and hide behind the defense" guy like an Alex Smith.
Apr 23, 2015 1:09pm
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SportsAndLady

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Apr 23, 2015 1:10 PM
like_that;1723625 wrote:Russell Wilson is a better version of Alex smith imo. I'd be interested to see how he would perform without lynch and that defense. All he has to do is not fuck up and keep the chains moving here and there. Not as much pressure on him as most QBs in the NFL.
He's not good enough to carry a team (like an Andrew Luck) but if you put Wilson on a team with average defense and a couple offensive weapons he will win you games. That's all we can really ask for.

Not asking for much lol it's not like we are begging for an Andrew luck or Tom Brady. Just give us a DECENT QB. For once..
Apr 23, 2015 1:10pm
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SportsAndLady

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Apr 23, 2015 1:10 PM
BR1986FB;1723626 wrote:Wilson, to me, is a better version of a game manager. He's not up there with the Luck's, Brady's, etc who are going to win games with their arms but he's not just a "hand it off and hide behind the defense" guy like an Alex Smith.
Agree with that. Better than a game manager but not elite.
Apr 23, 2015 1:10pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 23, 2015 1:13 PM
SportsAndLady;1723627 wrote: Not asking for much lol it's not like we are begging for an Andrew luck or Tom Brady. Just give us a DECENT QB. For once..
Amen. I'm sick of seeing the Frye's spinning 15x's into a sack, Weeden's getting trapped under flags/flipping the ball into No Man's Land and McCoy's/Hoyer's with their noodle ass arms. Just a COMPETENT QB that's not going to be a complete embarrassment where opposing teams can mark a "W" on their schedule every time they see "Breowns."
Apr 23, 2015 1:13pm
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sleeper

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Apr 23, 2015 1:17 PM
BR1986FB;1723631 wrote:Amen. I'm sick of seeing the Frye's spinning 15x's into a sack, Weeden's getting trapped under flags/flipping the ball into No Man's Land and McCoy's/Hoyer's with their noodle ass arms. Just a COMPETENT QB that's not going to be a complete embarrassment where opposing teams can mark a "W" on their schedule every time they see "Breowns."
This. The Browns QBs since the comeback have been a disaster at best. Manziel is just the next disaster and I don't see a strong solution on the horizon.
Apr 23, 2015 1:17pm
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lhslep134

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Apr 23, 2015 1:21 PM
Our QB play has been so bad I'll settle for anyone who looks competent moving around in the pocket lol

I agree with what's been said re: Wilson, Flacco, and QBs.
Apr 23, 2015 1:21pm
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Apr 23, 2015 1:22 PM
sleeper;1723635 wrote:This. The Browns QBs since the comeback have been a disaster at best. Manziel is just the next disaster and I don't see a strong solution on the horizon.
I'm alright with giving manziel the starts this year because fuck it we have no one else, let's see what he has with a competent mind and better work ethic.

But i agree with you that I don't think he'll amount to anything. That's just my opinion and a guess though. Let's see what he has this year and hopefully he proves us wrong.
Apr 23, 2015 1:22pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 23, 2015 1:23 PM
sleeper;1723635 wrote:This. The Browns QBs since the comeback have been a disaster at best. Manziel is just the next disaster and I don't see a strong solution on the horizon.
Unlike you, I'm VERY skeptical that Manziel will be the guy (you've just flat out dismissed him) but the best thing that could happen is for him to actually be good. I agree with your "horizon" comment. Legit QB's, like Drew Brees, become free agents once in a lifetime (and even he was considered 'damaged goods') and I don't see any college QB's on the horizon that look like "can't misses."

The former GM who remarked about Mariota's upside/downside said that NFL teams are going to have to be less stubborn and implement more spread offense options into their systems to get these college QB's up and running. He said 98% run the spread (not sure how accurate that is) and if the only 2% that run traditional systems have shitty QB's, where are you going to get your QB from? Teams need to adapt more to the player than the player adapting to the system (square peg, round hole).
Apr 23, 2015 1:23pm
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sleeper

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Apr 23, 2015 1:27 PM
BR1986FB;1723640 wrote:Unlike you, I'm VERY skeptical that Manziel will be the guy (you've just flat out dismissed him) but the best thing that could happen is for him to actually be good. I agree with your "horizon" comment. Legit QB's, like Drew Brees, become free agents once in a lifetime (and even he was considered 'damaged goods') and I don't see any college QB's on the horizon that look like "can't misses."

The former GM who remarked about Mariota's upside/downside said that NFL teams are going to have to be less stubborn and implement more spread offense options into their systems to get these college QB's up and running. He said 98% run the spread (not sure how accurate that is) and if the only 2% that run traditional systems have shitty QB's, where are you going to get your QB from? Teams need to adapt more to the player than the player adapting to the system (square peg, round hole).
Manziel has about a 0% chance of being a relevant QB in the NFL. I don't get why everyone thinks he's going to be anything above terrible. He's an undersized QB with an attitude problem who ran a spread offense in college that rarely works in the NFL.

Anyways, I think the strategy to get a top tier QB is to find a diamond in the rough in the 4th+ rounds. While the chance is low, its certainly better than gambling on an overrated prospect out of college with a high draft pick.
Apr 23, 2015 1:27pm
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Commander of Awesome

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Apr 23, 2015 1:27 PM
Think we're all in agreement, run the ball, stop the run and a qb that doesn't turn the ball over = success. Like I said, don't stop the run it doesn't matter how good your qb is bc you will suck ass.
Apr 23, 2015 1:27pm
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Apr 23, 2015 1:30 PM
Commander of Awesome;1723643 wrote:Think we're all in agreement, run the ball, stop the run and a qb that doesn't turn the ball over = success. Like I said, don't stop the run it doesn't matter how good your qb is bc you will suck ass.
Stop the run? LOL

Again, that sounds like something out of a bad football movie. NFL offenses are slowly moving away from having a dominant running game to succeed and more into exploiting mis-matches in the passing game. I think the TE position is extremely important because of this. The reality is, if you want to win in the NFL you need a defense that can stop the pass and an offense that has flexibility to exploit mis-matches. In addition, your offense needs a QB that understands the game and can execute accordingly.
Apr 23, 2015 1:30pm
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Commander of Awesome

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Apr 23, 2015 1:33 PM
Worked for the saints/Falcons/chargers. /sarcasm

Hell Dallas figured it out eventually. Run the ball, stop the run. EZ

Also a lot cheaper way to win than trading away the future (multiple 1st ala failskins) for an overrated qb.
Apr 23, 2015 1:33pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 23, 2015 1:38 PM
Yeah, you do need to "stop the run" when you have a lights out secondary. If teams are afraid to throw the ball at Haden, Williams, Whitner and the Shark, they are going to run it ALL...DAY....LONG and it doesn't matter HOW good your QB is if he can't get on the field. I uderstand what COA is saying but I kind of disagree in that it's much easier to find run stuffers in the draft than it is to find a competent QB.
Apr 23, 2015 1:38pm
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Commander of Awesome

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Apr 23, 2015 1:38 PM
Br it's easier and cheaper to stop the run. No debate.

3+ 1sts for Mariota or stay and draft Shelton? Paying a huge fucking contract to Mariota if he works out, or paying DT money to a run stuffer? That's how I look at it.
Apr 23, 2015 1:38pm
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BR1986FB

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Apr 23, 2015 1:45 PM
Commander of Awesome;1723651 wrote:Br it's easier and cheaper to stop the run. No debate.

3+ 1sts for Mariota or stay and draft Shelton? Paying a huge fucking contract to Mariota if he works out, or paying DT money to a run stuffer? That's how I look at it.
If they give three 1st's for Mariota, it says a) they are ridiculously desperate and b) they're incompetent. I think he can be good but he's going to have to sit a year. I'd love to have Shelton but he's not going to help them score points.
Apr 23, 2015 1:45pm
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Apr 23, 2015 1:47 PM
Jesus Christ this argument again? We need a QB more than anything. We also need to stop the run. Not going to win without both of those. Can we just end it at that?
Apr 23, 2015 1:47pm
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Apr 23, 2015 1:48 PM
Commander of Awesome;1723648 wrote:Worked for the saints/Falcons/chargers. /sarcasm

Hell Dallas figured it out eventually. Run the ball, stop the run. EZ

Also a lot cheaper way to win than trading away the future (multiple 1st ala failskins) for an overrated qb.
???

Dallas figured it out by winning nothing with a dominant run game. I can't even name the Patriots starting RB, you know the team who won the Super Bowl, but I do know Tom Brady, Gronkowski, and Eldeman were the reason. In fact, the Patriots were shitty to average at stopping the run as Lynch had a field day.

Again, your logic is broken at best and this kind of old fashioned thinking is exactly why the Browns continue to fail year after year.
Apr 23, 2015 1:48pm
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Apr 23, 2015 1:50 PM
BR1986FB;1723650 wrote:Yeah, you do need to "stop the run" when you have a lights out secondary. If teams are afraid to throw the ball at Haden, Williams, Whitner and the Shark, they are going to run it ALL...DAY....LONG and it doesn't matter HOW good your QB is if he can't get on the field. I uderstand what COA is saying but I kind of disagree in that it's much easier to find run stuffers in the draft than it is to find a competent QB.
It's like saying "You need to score more points than the other team if you want to win". Well fucking duh. Stopping the run isn't the priority anymore especially when winning NFL offenses are focusing more on the passing game. It's important to stop the run, sure, but its even more important to have a strong flexible secondary.
Apr 23, 2015 1:50pm
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like_that

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Apr 23, 2015 1:51 PM
SportsAndLady;1723627 wrote:He's not good enough to carry a team (like an Andrew Luck) but if you put Wilson on a team with average defense and a couple offensive weapons he will win you games. That's all we can really ask for.

Not asking for much lol it's not like we are begging for an Andrew luck or Tom Brady. Just give us a DECENT QB. For once..
I'm not going to go far and say an average defense for Wilson lol. QBs like Brady and manning make up for an average defense, not QBs like flacco, Wilson, smith, etc.
Apr 23, 2015 1:51pm
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SportsAndLady

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Apr 23, 2015 2:22 PM
like_that;1723660 wrote:I'm not going to go far and say an average defense for Wilson lol. QBs like Brady and manning make up for an average defense, not QBs like flacco, Wilson, smith, etc.
Haha true I meant a good defense. Doesn't have to be an elite defense just a good defense a good O-line and a weapon or two and he'll get the job done.
Apr 23, 2015 2:22pm
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Crimson streak

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Apr 23, 2015 2:44 PM
The rivers rumors are flying out again today. Some are saying a first and a 3rd for rivers. I'd take that deal in a heart beat. Especially if it's the 19th pick. Draft Shelton, draft green-beckham in the 2nd and we got a pretty damn good team


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Apr 23, 2015 2:44pm
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thavoice

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Apr 23, 2015 2:46 PM
Only thing that comes out now is misinformation......
Apr 23, 2015 2:46pm
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sleeper

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Apr 23, 2015 2:50 PM
Crimson streak;1723673 wrote:The rivers rumors are flying out again today. Some are saying a first and a 3rd for rivers. I'd take that deal in a heart beat. Especially if it's the 19th pick. Draft Shelton, draft green-beckham in the 2nd and we got a pretty damn good team


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I think that's a little expensive for Rivers but again I'm not a huge fan of Rivers. He is much better than any of the QBs we have on the roster for next year so maybe its worth a shot.
Apr 23, 2015 2:50pm