There were a few dedicated kids in the weight room...but not enough. Look back when we played. There were a dedicated few, a few others that dedicated themselves just during the season, and others just going through the motions. I wont name any names, but many of the great athletes from our past have been those "go through the motions" in the weight room. The difference is when the lights came on, they were ready to perform. Talent wins out!

This was true 20 years ago and will always be true.

If you are afraid of a butt-kicking you better get Triway and Northwest off your schedule.

Old Rider;1707713 wrote:The 5th and 6th graders go to the middle school with the 7th and 8th graders so they see and hear about it everyday. That may not have anything to do with it, but kids do talk/complain/cry...Not to mention when these kids go to the game on Friday nights and see our varsity team get the shit knocked out of them.

It has to be hard as a coach to continue to tell the kids "we have to lift more weights, practice harder, get tougher"...only to go out on the field and take ANOTHER ass whooping.

Let me get this straight, your AD, Coaches and some fans are complaining about the lack of support and ticket sales and attendance but the 5th and 6th graders are going to all the games to see the scores?

Coach is a verb, get over it and do the job. Sounds like a ton of excuses to me with nothing to back it up other than kids just don't want to play sports as much as they did. A new schedule will not change that. Numbers may go up but the type of kid and parent you get will be glory hunters and not workers or program builders you are looking for.

Let me get this straight, your AD, Coaches and some fans are complaining about the lack of support and ticket sales and attendance but the 5th and 6th graders are going to all the games to see the scores?

Coach is a verb, get over it and do the job. Sounds like a ton of excuses to me with nothing to back it up other than kids just don't want to play sports as much as they did. A new schedule will not change that. Numbers may go up but the type of kid and parent you get will be glory hunters and not workers or program builders you are looking for.

Valid observation, only time will tell if this is the case. IDK if the number one complaint is lack of support, ticket sales and attendance? They could certainly be influencing factors but perhaps not the TOP three? IDK.

Where are you from? The reason I ask is to see if your home town is experiencing the same kinds of problems with numbers and overall attitude? I sense a little agitation in your post in the comment

Sounds like a ton of excuses to me with nothing to back it up other than kids just don't want to play sports as much as they did

.

Just curious and I would agree that A LOT of kids just are more interested in playing video games and ping pong than to play ball. Just curious.

Been going to football and basketball games for years at many schools, i just enjoy watching sports, and the same is true at most places. Participation numbers are declining, attendance is down and the reasons seem to be just a changing of the times we live in. Really no connection with winning or losing as I've seen successful programs play with half empty stands this year.

Oldrider-Talent does win no doubt but I think you are selling the weight room very short. There were a lot of players in our day that were self maid. By that I mean that it may have not been the person who scores three TD's a night but Line man that became a force because they did a lot of work. Lets say that there were 4-5 players like that every year and most of them played two ways. In a small school that is a huge difference. You are right that certain players went through the motions but the lights went on and so did they. But there were a core of guys that maid themselves into a starter or a starter to a better starter because they did the work.

I know we will not name names on here but think in your head and you have the ability to talk to coaching staff...can you name one player in the last two years at any position who has done this. Watch the West Holmes game...the talent level difference was not that huge but the strength level was drastic. You could tell by looking and then it showed up on the field. I am not going to give the kids a pass on that.

Another think to point out...the boys club in Jr High for many of us had Jerry Lane working us on the hammer strength machines. I remember those workouts and they were tough but it prepared us to continue to do the work. I don't know what the program is for Jr. High kids now? Maybe it is really good and maybe you can talk to this point so I can hear what it is. It makes a difference.

Trevor Summers and Harrison Brown were two players from last years team that worked very hard in the weight room. As for the middle school workouts...they are always invited to the high school weight room, but how many 7th and 8th graders are gonna do that? I lifted a little at the boys club as a middle schooler, but never would have considered entering the high school weight room at that age. Intimidation being the main reason for that and I am sure its the same. Not sure that at that age I would have wanted to occupy a bench for a workout while Doug Reusser, Eric Marks, and Willard Gibson wait on me to put up 110 lbs!! LOL

Old Rider;1707790 wrote:Trevor Summers and Harrison Brown were two players from last years team that worked very hard in the weight room. As for the middle school workouts...they are always invited to the high school weight room, but how many 7th and 8th graders are gonna do that? I lifted a little at the boys club as a middle schooler, but never would have considered entering the high school weight room at that age. Intimidation being the main reason for that and I am sure its the same. Not sure that at that age I would have wanted to occupy a bench for a workout while Doug Reusser, Eric Marks, and Willard Gibson wait on me to put up 110 lbs!! LOL

I don't disagree with you on that which is why I think a very valuable piece of this is missing. These kids are starting to work out much later than before. They get behind and never catch up. Don't you think there may be an issue there?

That weight room was very busy place back in the day and was run by an excellent man that would do anything for all of us. I would have felt guilty to not show up because I know Jerry would be there waiting on us. I really think this is a huge piece that is not being done correctly at this level. Oh and by the way that helps every sport boys and girls.

I give you credit for both those names and it showed on Fridays too. What if there would have been 4 or 5 more that really did the work?

Boys Club weight room doesnt even exist. Again...the boys club has entirely changed. Not at all what we remember it to be! I would love to see more young kids working out and making themselves better in the offseason. Times have changed...very few kids want to do the extra things to make themselves better. Rrfan...times simply are different. Tough to accept, but its reality!

Old Rider;1707800 wrote:Boys Club weight room doesnt even exist. Again...the boys club has entirely changed. Not at all what we remember it to be! I would love to see more young kids working out and making themselves better in the offseason. Times have changed...very few kids want to do the extra things to make themselves better. Rrfan...times simply are different. Tough to accept, but its reality!

I know things are different but that does not make it right...maybe some things need to get back to what used to be to get back to where we used to be.
Make a separate time for the Jr. High kids to lift get someone who can start to influence those kids to help lead them and then hold them accountable.

OldRider do you remember the charts in the old weight room that had the max of your core lifts? Does that happen anymore? It was motivation for those kids you did not want to be low on that chart and you sure as heck did not want to be not strong enough to get on the board at all. I think some little things can help to change things but they have to take place.

rrfan;1707813 wrote:I know things are different but that does not make it right...maybe some things need to get back to what used to be to get back to where we used to be.
Make a separate time for the Jr. High kids to lift get someone who can start to influence those kids to help lead them and then hold them accountable.

OldRider do you remember the charts in the old weight room that had the max of your core lifts? Does that happen anymore? It was motivation for those kids you did not want to be low on that chart and you sure as heck did not want to be not strong enough to get on the board at all. I think some little things can help to change things but they have to take place.

Sounds like your the man for the job! The high school coaches can't even get a dozen kids to the weight room on a regular basis. Try getting those numbers with the youngsters.

Old Rider;1707821 wrote:Sounds like your the man for the job! The high school coaches can't even get a dozen kids to the weight room on a regular basis. Try getting those numbers with the youngsters.

Culture needs changed!

Old Rider;1707821 wrote:Sounds like your the man for the job! The high school coaches can't even get a dozen kids to the weight room on a regular basis. Try getting those numbers with the youngsters.

Has to get to a point where good dads in this community stop bitching about what is wrong, and do something to change it. There's a lot fewer good dads than there were 30 years ago, but still plenty out there....and plenty of them sitting on the sidelines.

Invest your time to be a coach, to help out, to volunteer, to reach out to the coaches now and ask "how can i help?"

If the problems are so obvious and easy to fix, then it should be a breeze to get done.

At the youth sports meeting last night....Kent said the average class of boys & girls in the 1970's was around 175......now it's 122. That's the AVERAGE. Some classes around 135....some barely 100.

So......60 boys & 60 girls per class. Throw out the "non-doers" (kids who don't participate in sports, music, arts...nothing) and you're down to 40 boys and 40 girls per class who are active in extra curricular activities.

That number used to be near 60 per class in the 70's & 80's.

Less kids, more sports, more "distractions" (video games, TV, social media etc.) other than sports. Start there with any discussion about the current state of Orrville sports....or sports in any community. That's reality.

RedRider1;1708065 wrote:Has to get to a point where good dads in this community stop bitching about what is wrong, and do something to change it. There's a lot fewer good dads than there were 30 years ago, but still plenty out there....and plenty of them sitting on the sidelines.

Invest your time to be a coach, to help out, to volunteer, to reach out to the coaches now and ask "how can i help?"

If the problems are so obvious and easy to fix, then it should be a breeze to get done.

At the youth sports meeting last night....Kent said the average class of boys & girls in the 1970's was around 175......now it's 122. That's the AVERAGE. Some classes around 135....some barely 100.

So......60 boys & 60 girls per class. Throw out the "non-doers" (kids who don't participate in sports, music, arts...nothing) and you're down to 40 boys and 40 girls per class who are active in extra curricular activities.

That number used to be near 60 per class in the 70's & 80's.

Less kids, more sports, more "distractions" (video games, TV, social media etc.) other than sports. Start there with any discussion about the current state of Orrville sports....or sports in any community. That's reality.

Do you have a list of class size from say the 90's to today? I think you can spin numbers to fit an agenda until you see them all you don't know the whole story. My class did not have more than 130-135 total so I am not sure that some of those numbers are accurate.

rrfan;1708074 wrote:Do you have a list of class size from say the 90's to today? I think you can spin numbers to fit an agenda until you see them all you don't know the whole story. My class did not have more than 130-135 total so I am not sure that some of those numbers are accurate.

You could go through the OHS hallways and count all the kids in each class on the big photos on the walls.

All I'm saying is that we were told last night that the AVERAGE # of kids in a class right now is 122. Kindergarten through 12th grade.

Pretty sure we had 150 in my class (1995). If the average is 122 now (and that's probably inflated by the larger elem. classes) that's still almost 20% less kids in a class than there was 20 years ago. 20% less kids for sports...and we have more sports (soccer & swimming) than we had in 1995. Again, less kids...more sports. That's reality. Not an agenda.

What was it in 1975, 1985, 1995, 2005?? I have no idea. But I bet it was more then than it is now.

Would be interesting to find out.

rrfan;1708074 wrote:Do you have a list of class size from say the 90's to today? I think you can spin numbers to fit an agenda until you see them all you don't know the whole story. My class did not have more than 130-135 total so I am not sure that some of those numbers are accurate.

If the late 70's had a class around 175, my class in 1995 had 150...and your class had 135....is that not a downward trend?

In 2007 we had 234 boys in grades 10 through 12, 190 girls
In 2009 we had 211 boys in grades 10 through 12, 182 girls
In 2011 we had 214 boys in grades 10 through 12, 175 girls
In 2013 we had 185 boys in grades 10 through 12, 174 girls

21% decrease in the # of boys. 9% decrease in the # of girls. In just 6 years.


All of these are from the OHSAA site. No agenda, and nothing being imagined.

Downward trend?

Those numbers are hard to look at...and unfortunate. Whats even more disgusting is that in 2013 we had about 30 kids on the football team. So about 150 boys are walking the halls choosing not to play football. OUCH!!

I think we should cancel all sports until we can figure out how to get some numbers back up. I have to believe there have been peaks and valleys over time. You just said that the numbers in the elementary so who is to say that numbers are not soon going to start trending up? I get it less kids right now and when you team that with less talent (boys) it get ugly and everybody thinks the world is ending. I also know that the boys out there are not working like they need to in order to get better. I can not make more kids come to Orrville HS so I look at what can change. There are things as we have discussed the last few days that have changed and I believe for the worse and it can add to some of the trouble that we are having. There is not a cure all but you have to start somewhere...how about concentrating on putting some time into the Jr High kids and getting them strong separate of the HS kids. Teach them young to be motivated and hungry. I also agree with you some of the parents of kids out there right now do know what it takes because they have done it before. They have to help these coaches out because I believe the hands are tied until all are on same page.

What's that.....you need more data? Happy to provide it.

From the Ohio Dept of Education:

1979 Orrville City Schools Enrollment
K-134
1st-185
2nd-165
3rd-175
4th-143
5th-145
6th-146
7th-149
8th-183
9th-198 (!!!!!)
10th-187
11th-166
12th-175

Total - 2151
Average per class - 165
That's 82.5 boys and 82.5 girls if you split the # in half.

If our average per class now is 122, that's 61 boys and 61 girls.

The smallest class sizes in 1979 would be HUGE classes now. What's that say?

So 35 years ago, we had 20 more boys and 20 more girls....PER CLASS. 2151 kids in the district versus around 1600 now. That's a 25% decrease in enrollment since 1979.

Look at those upper 3 grades. 528 kids. Split in half that's 264 boys and 264 girls. And we're at 185 boys as of the 2013 OHSAA count. 30% less now than in 1979.

Think we'd see some better numbers with nearly 100 more boys in the top 3 grades???

Yeah...Orrville is the same town it's always been. L.O.L.

Okay so that is part of the problem but you are still talking about stuff you can not change. Like crying over spilled milk.

I also see some class sizes that are very positive and fit in to many of the years of the past.

I just added up those numbers and came up with 2,151 kids in the district right now where did you come up with the 1,600 number?

The 2151 enrollment was from 1979.

The 1600 number was taking our AD's comment last night that an average class size is 122. 122 X 13 = 1586.

Got some more numbers that are pretty eye opening. Will post later.

Okay so we have identified part of the problem. It is also one that can't be changed...Next!

RR1...always good for providing numbers. And when I see those numbers the first thing I ask is WHY? Where have the kids gone? Well....as we have said many times before on this site there is nothing to attract people to this town to call it home. New schools were built in hopes to help attract people to live here and by looking at those numbers, it appears to be doing just the opposite. There is absolutely NOTHING to attract young couples to this town!

rrfan;1708118 wrote:Okay so we have identified part of the problem. It is also one that can't be changed...Next!

This CAN be changed....IMO. But that is a discussion for another day...

The more interesting question is why less? Obvious reason is less blue collar industry. More Christian school alternatives. I think we have just as many or more jobs, its just a shift from blue collars who lived in town to white collars that don't live here. How much of it is housing? We lost some single family housing around Smucker's but gained some on Hostetler Rd. and Paradise Rd. Some of these concerns were addressed at the last city comprehensive plan but those wheels turn slowly. In the short term changing how people think about competing in multiple +sports can't hurt.