The attendance problem is mostly the Dolan's fault in that they poisoned the well with too many fans that don't want to support them personally.

That period where they were doing the severe penny pinching and public whining about fans being mad turned off a tremendous amount of the fan base and many people haven't and won't get over it as long as they own the team.

They are a case study in how to alienate a fan base.

HitsRus;1650730 wrote:The Cleveland Organization you just described is THE BROWNS . Shapiro/Antonetti have done a pretty good job allocating the money that our piss poor attendance brings in....this coming from a guy who regularly criticizes their off season hot stove moves. They hit and miss like most organizations, but unlike a lot of organizations, they have no room for error .

They are one in the same. It's not like this shitty front office (Tribe) hasn't had plenty of high draft picks that they've whiffed on. Yes, the Browns have sucked but there's WAY too many Tribe apologists for these clowns (Shapiro/Antonetti).

I'm not talking about free agents or young guys they've gotten in trades. I'm talking about their talent evaluating in the draft, the lifeblood of small market teams. They've been beyond miserable in their assessment of talent.

IggyPride00;1650736 wrote:The attendance problem is mostly the Dolan's fault in that they poisoned the well with too many fans that don't want to support them personally.

That period where they were doing the severe penny pinching and public whining about fans being mad turned off a tremendous amount of the fan base and many people haven't and won't get over it as long as they own the team.

They are a case study in how to alienate a fan base.

I think what pissed off a lot of fans is that, when in striking distance near the trading deadline, they've sat on their hands and done nothing. The only "splash" I can recall was the Ubaldo trade.

BR1986FB;1650742 wrote:I think what pissed off a lot of fans is that, when in striking distance near the trading deadline, they've sat on their hands and done nothing. The only "splash" I can recall was the Ubaldo trade.

The response to the 2007 season when they did nothing after being 1 out from the world series was a tipping point. The parade of trades started at that point the next season and from there the Dolan hate really grew.

They spent years telling people they would spend once we were in contention, and the payroll never appreciably changed and they never went "all in" to try for a push when we were close. People just had enough, and have been apathetic ever since.

HitsRus;1650730 wrote:The Cleveland Organization you just described is THE BROWNS . Shapiro/Antonetti have done a pretty good job allocating the money that our piss poor attendance brings in....this coming from a guy who regularly criticizes their off season hot stove moves. They hit and miss like most organizations, but unlike a lot of organizations, they have no room for error .

Difference being the Browns clean house and attempt to get it right, whereas the Indians promote you to team president.

Mulva;1650746 wrote:Difference being the Browns clean house and attempt to get it right, whereas the Indians promote you to team president.

If that is true, what is the reasoning behind the small-market baseball team having the occasional playoff season and being in contention this year despite being one of the lowest-spending squads in their league while the football team, which competes under a more equal field with a salary cap, rarely is even at .500, let alone in playoff contention?

I mean, while I agree that the Indians are more of a "hanger-on" team than a legit contender, they have to be doing something right just to be in that position with reasonable frequency that, to me, makes it weird to be negatively comparing them to a franchise that has been legitimately poorly run.

Antonetti took over in 2010, and while his drafts have definitely been subpar overall, he has (at least seemed to, as most haven't been promoted yet) made good/great RD 1 selections.

Pomeranz
Lindor
Naquin
Frazier
Zimmer
Sheffield

And this past draft (Zimmer/Sheffield) was applauded national as being very solid for the Tribe even past the two RD1 picks.

Now, I'm not completely sold on him either as past those guys, he misses. Cody Allen and Tyler Holt off the top of my head are the only picks who have made an impact for us (and Pom, if you count the trade).

Heretic;1650751 wrote:If that is true, what is the reasoning behind the small-market baseball team having the occasional playoff season and being in contention this year despite being one of the lowest-spending squads in their league while the football team, which competes under a more equal field with a salary cap, rarely is even at .500, let alone in playoff contention?

I mean, while I agree that the Indians are more of a "hanger-on" team than a legit contender, they have to be doing something right just to be in that position with reasonable frequency that, to me, makes it weird to be negatively comparing them to a franchise that has been legitimately poorly run.

You make a good point. The NFL with its cap makes everything think it is the most fair way to go. Selig a few years ago mentioned how he didnt feel a cap was needed because of the diff amount of unique teams making the postseason, so I looked it up.

It was probably 3 years ago but I went back 10 season in the big four sports. MLB had the most number of diff franchises making the 'final 4'.
but that is a diff story for a diff day.

Laley23;1650657 wrote:If Tomlin is on this team next year Ill be furious. That guy is fucking horrible.

I'm with you--this is pathetic.

Josh Tomlin (6-9) gave up five runs and three hits in one-third of an inning.

I'm okay with Tomlin as a fifth starter or long relief man, but why use him in such a critical spot of a critical game? Didn't Francona have any other options?

BR1986FB;1650741 wrote:They are one in the same. It's not like this shitty front office (Tribe) hasn't had plenty of high draft picks that they've whiffed on. Yes, the Browns have sucked but there's WAY too many Tribe apologists for these clowns (Shapiro/Antonetti).

I'm not talking about free agents or young guys they've gotten in trades. I'm talking about their talent evaluating in the draft, the lifeblood of small market teams. They've been beyond miserable in their assessment of talent.

That's why Detroit has been so good, for the most part it's been terrific deals. Trading almost nothing to get Miggy, picking up VMart for peanuts, drafting Verlander, trading Granderson for Jackson and Scherzer, dealing for Kinsler, and even while Cleveland was all in on Ubaldo the Tigers went with relative unknown Doug Fister who was so much better. Heck even Sanchez signed for like $12 million a year and he has been arguably the best pitcher the last 2 years in the AL.

Still the city of Cleveland should be ashamed of it's fan support of relatively successful team especially when you consider how bad the Browns are

Classyposter58;1650874 wrote:That's why Detroit has been so good, for the most part it's been terrific deals. Trading almost nothing to get Miggy, picking up VMart for peanuts, drafting Verlander, trading Granderson for Jackson and Scherzer, dealing for Kinsler, and even while Cleveland was all in on Ubaldo the Tigers went with relative unknown Doug Fister who was so much better. Heck even Sanchez signed for like $12 million a year and he has been arguably the best pitcher the last 2 years in the AL.

Still the city of Cleveland should be ashamed of it's fan support of relatively successful team especially when you consider how bad the Browns are

SOOOO good, yet they haven't won a World Series.

The shit hole village of detroit should be ashamed of the condition of what once was a city.

HitsRus;1650670 wrote:Beat silly twice? The final score tonight was not indicative of how the team played for 10 innings.

Laley23;1650713 wrote:We have a winning record versus Detroit. We also weren't beat silly in 2 games. That's a ridiculous statement, or a statement of someone who didn't watch the games.

So 7 runs in ANY inning isn't acceptable. playing your hearts out for 10 innings doesn't count as win. and what else isn't acceptable is blowing the lead in the 9th inning during a possibly playoff run, that isn't what a contender would do. I am sick of the excuses. Call it like it is.

Detroit isn't the same Detroit they have been the last couple years. And we are 8-8 verse Detroit this year and outscored by 8 runs.

I am calling it like it is. They weren't "beat silly" in 3 of the games. They were just beat in 2 of them and "best silly" in one of them.

like_that;1650887 wrote:SOOOO good, yet they haven't won a World Series.

The shit hole village of detroit should be ashamed of the condition of what once was a city.

I mean they've advanced to the ALCS for 3 consecutive years something that was only duplicated 6 times previously

Classyposter58;1650992 wrote:I mean they've advanced to the ALCS for 3 consecutive years something that was only duplicated 6 times previously

Wow, it must be pretty hard to do that and STILL not have won a ship.

Classyposter58;1650992 wrote:I mean they've advanced to the ALCS for 3 consecutive years something that was only duplicated 6 times previously

Tribe fans have been there. If you don't win one, the "glory years" are gonna hurt to look back on, no matter how fun they are now.