HelloAgain;1642061 wrote:Can't even keep trolling positions straight anymore. Sad to see a former great past his prime.

Not really. The initial article was terrible and didn't contain the truth. After hearing about the truth, my position changed into this being nothing more than a PC nightmare.

If anything is a pc nightmare it is the University of Michigan. Hilarious that their "fans" (note no one goes there because it is the most overrated college in the US) chime in on matters. Every single person I know that went to UM undergrad or grad school hated it.

Manhattan Buckeye;1642072 wrote:If anything is a pc nightmare it is the University of Michigan. Hilarious that their "fans" (note no one goes there because it is the most overrated college in the US) chime in on matters. Every single person I know that went to UM undergrad or grad school hated it.

Yes, only OSU "fans" can comment about the news. :rolleyes: I'm sure OSU fans never have opinions about UM or Michigan issues.

Here is my opinion, it is a horribly overrated school that still has major racial issues. It is a safety school for New Yorkers that don't get into the Ivies. Ohio State has had its problems in the past (particularly in the 80's - early 90's with open admissions, and racial issues as well). But no one would ever consider Ohio State to be one of the top public schools. Michigan is living off of its reputation from the 50's.

Manhattan Buckeye;1642087 wrote:Here is my opinion, it is a horribly overrated school that still has major racial issues. It is a safety school for New Yorkers that don't get into the Ivies. Ohio State has had its problems in the past (particularly in the 80's - early 90's with open admissions, and racial issues as well). But no one would ever consider Ohio State to be one of the top public schools. Michigan is living off of its reputation from the 50's.

Good for you! Get it all out!

Did you go there? Or are you just a fan? It used to be one of the most obnoxious fan bases (used to be because their program has stunk for so long) outside of the SEC.

Manhattan Buckeye;1642013 wrote:"100% agree. Unfortunately these are the times we live in."

+100,000,000. My wife and I have this conversation almost every night. Is it us or have we all lost our minds? I never thought I'd see the USA in this shape. Can't people just be normal?

Hyperbole?

Manhattan Buckeye;1642105 wrote:Did you go there? Or are you just a fan? It used to be one of the most obnoxious fan bases (used to be because their program has stunk for so long) outside of the SEC.

Just a fan since a kid. Went to a small school, so only cheering for their team would be a little boring. Hope this helps your rant.

ts1227;1642058 wrote:Explain to me how anything you said has any bearing on running a university. It's a college, not the mafia. All you did was throw around a bunch of buzzwords that translate to "our alumni are stubborn assholes"

We need people in charge that understand the culture. Holbrook did not. This guy is starting down that path.

The culture is Football ...NOT Band. IMO The Best Damn Band In The Land started considering themselves The Most Important Thing At the University...I'm glad to see a little wind taken out of their sails. And anybody that truly knows jack shit about OSU sports agrees with me.

^^^ why are you posting irrelevant sh**? You can find OSU football in the " College Football" forum. If you don't care about the band, don't click on this thread.

WebFire;1642114 wrote:Just a fan since a kid. Went to a small school, so only cheering for their team would be a little boring. Hope this helps your rant.

Would you send your kids there.? Ohio State has its issues, no doubt. But no one that went to Michigan that we knew enjoyed it. A simple google search turns up all the racial problems they've had, and apparently continue to have. It is nutty left wing, in an economic dying state.

ts1227;1642058 wrote:Explain to me how anything you said has any bearing on running a university. It's a college, not the mafia. All you did was throw around a bunch of buzzwords that translate to "our alumni are stubborn assholes"

Since you are talking about "running a university" and buzz words, one of the things that bothered me as soon as Drake made his statement is when he used the term "zero tolerance"... A term that is often used by bullies and politicians and people who want to appear like they're tough guys/gals. When you hear someone use that term about ANYTHING the first thing that should come to your mind is "that guy is an idiot". All that "zero tolerance" does for you is paint yourself into a corner and eliminate your option to apply wisdom, thoughtful solutions, and compassion to a situation. Almost certainly, I would not want my university president to be so inflexible as to cast things in such black and white terms that he is so immobilized.

Manhattan Buckeye;1642242 wrote:Would you send your kids there.? Ohio State has its issues, no doubt. But no one that went to Michigan that we knew enjoyed it. A simple google search turns up all the racial problems they've had, and apparently continue to have. It is nutty left wing, in an economic dying state.

This is just stupid. Everyone I know that has attended enjoyed it just the same as any other college kid enjoys their school. I even know someone that was in the band!

HitsRus;1642243 wrote:Since you are talking about "running a university" and buzz words, one of the things that bothered me as soon as Drake made his statement is when he used the term "zero tolerance"... A term that is often used by bullies and politicians and people who want to appear like they're tough guys/gals. When you hear someone use that term about ANYTHING the first thing that should come to your mind is "that guy is an idiot". All that "zero tolerance" does for you is paint yourself into a corner and eliminate your option to apply wisdom, thoughtful solutions, and compassion to a situation. Almost certainly, I would not want my university president to be so inflexible as to cast things in such black and white terms that he is so immobilized.

Yeah, Zero tolerance has gotten kids suspended for drawing a gun, or pointing wasnt it like a potatoe chip shaped like a gun?

Not a big fan of zero tolerance in many instances.

WebFire;1642247 wrote:This is just stupid. Everyone I know that has attended enjoyed it just the same as any other college kid enjoys their school. I even know someone that was in the band!

Well everyone I know that went there hated it. And the racial stuff is public knowledge. There is no way I'd send our kids there.

HitsRus;1642243 wrote:Since you are talking about "running a university" and buzz words, one of the things that bothered me as soon as Drake made his statement is when he used the term "zero tolerance"... A term that is often used by bullies and politicians and people who want to appear like they're tough guys/gals. When you hear someone use that term about ANYTHING the first thing that should come to your mind is "that guy is an idiot". All that "zero tolerance" does for you is paint yourself into a corner and eliminate your option to apply wisdom, thoughtful solutions, and compassion to a situation. Almost certainly, I would not want my university president to be so inflexible as to cast things in such black and white terms that he is so immobilized.

I'm cool with the university having a zero tolerance policy on administrators participating in hazing of a sexual nature on 18 year olds. Just one guy's opinion!

Instead of whining on the internet, why don't you people put your money where your mouth is? Boycott the football games, OSU merchandise, etc. if you think this is such a disgrace. Crying won't change anything.

sleeper;1642006 wrote:Oh christ. VOLUNTARY underwear practices. Have you read anything about the program from former band members? You don't have to be naked/in your underwear and there are no repercussions if you don't participate.

Imagine the life scarring that these kids went through though; oh no I have to stand around my friends in underwear. Oh the humanity. Grow up.

sleeper;1638565 wrote:Embarrassed. Glad he is gone. He'll end up in the SEC somewhere.

HelloAgain;1642315 wrote:I'm cool with the university having a zero tolerance policy on administrators participating in hazing of a sexual nature on 18 year olds. Just one guy's opinion!

Instead of whining on the internet, why don't you people put your money where your mouth is? Boycott the football games, OSU merchandise, etc. if you think this is such a disgrace. Crying won't change anything.

....except it's not true Pinocchio.

HitsRus;1642334 wrote:....except it's not true Pinocchio.

He's already admitted he was in attendance when students marched in their underwear as part of a hazing tradition. Even one time of overseeing sexual hazing of 18 year olds as a university employee is more than sufficient grounds for firing.

Let's see...you said he was "hosting".... "participating"..."overseeing"...
The complaintant said he was "present".....any other way you want to spin that?

I guess he did "participate", at least as a member of the band since they have been doing that for the past 50 years.
He also ended it.

HitsRus;1642349 wrote:Let's see...you said he was "hosting".... "participating"..."overseeing"...
The complaintant said he was "present".....any other way you want to spin that?

He's the director of the marching band. Anytime he is at a band function he is ultimately in charge and responsible. As such, his very presence at the hazing was an implicit endorsement.

Manhattan Buckeye;1642013 wrote:"100% agree. Unfortunately these are the times we live in."

+100,000,000. My wife and I have this conversation almost every night. Is it us or have we all lost our minds? I never thought I'd see the USA in this shape. Can't people just be normal?

You are one big douche.

...and now it's come out that high level University officials knew about Midnight Ramp AT LEAST as early as 2009...a full 3 1/2 years before Waters became director. Moreover, the previous band director would get the ok from the OSU police chief to hold it at the stadium.
Waters had a meeting with his squad leaders where they discussed ending the archaic traditions that could be deemed offensive, and ended midnight ramp 3 weeks before he learned that OSU was conducting an investigation.
There is no doubt, that as a former member of the band, Waters knew about these traditions, but by all accounts from current band members, was working to change the culture to modern standards. None of this mattered to the new University president, who, to cover his own ass was determined to sever any links to the past, whether Jonathan Waters deserved it or not. He was guilty by association. Hence, a sham in house investigation was done, discovering what everybody knew anyway to create a reason to fire Waters. All they had to do was sell it....and that seemed to be the easy part.(Even Hello again bought it!)

HitsRus;1642369 wrote:...and now it's come out that high level University officials knew about Midnight Ramp AT LEAST as early as 2009...a full 3 1/2 years before Waters became director. Moreover, the previous band director would get the ok from the OSU police chief to hold it at the stadium.
Waters had a meeting with his squad leaders where they discussed ending the archaic traditions that could be deemed offensive, and ended midnight ramp 3 weeks before he learned that OSU was conducting an investigation.
There is no doubt, that as a former member of the band, Waters knew about these traditions, but by all accounts from current band members, was working to change the culture to modern standards. None of this mattered to the new University president, who, to cover his own ass was determined to sever any links to the past, whether Jonathan Waters deserved it or not. Hence, a sham in house investigation was done, discovering what everybody knew anyway to create a reason to fire Waters. All they had to do was sell it....and that seemed to be the easy part.(Even Hello again bought it!)

None of this changes the fact he supported, as band director, an event where 18 year olds he was in charge of overseeing were being hazed in a sexual nature. As long as that is fact(he's admitted to it) then the decision to fire him was justified, regardless of subsequent behavior.