2014-2015 NBA Off Season, Draft, Free Agency

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robj55's avatar

robj55

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9,511 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:32 PM
SportsAndLady;1632644 wrote:Disregards a stat. Doesn't know what the stat entails.

/rob
Always on my shit huh lol I don't follow those metrics very much because like anything they can be skewed. They are an interesting tool but I would never BASE my argument around them.
Jul 3, 2014 12:32pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:35 PM
Laley23;1632645 wrote:Do we have a depiction of where Wades shots were from. The guy is awful behind the arc, so I'd be curious how many runners and lay-ups he had. No way is he a 55% shooter if we are taking about actual shots.

Jul 3, 2014 12:35pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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9,511 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:35 PM
Laley23;1632649 wrote:He wasn't on the court for 3/4 unless counting playoffs...and at that point he broke down after/during the ECF with Pacers.
Yes I'm counting playoffs because the regular season obviously has less meaning to the Miami Heat than other teams. He did break down against the Spurs but still averaged 15 ppg but his fg% dipped to 44%, which is still better than almost any two guard in the league lol
Jul 3, 2014 12:35pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:36 PM
robj55;1632648 wrote:It doesn't matter, he has never been a three point shooter. Therefore he is still able to get the shots he wants and make them at a ridiculously high rate for a two guard. Michael's highest fg% was 53 and Kobe's is 47 to put it in perspective.
And they also shot 3's.
Jul 3, 2014 12:36pm
wildcats20's avatar

wildcats20

In ROY I Trust!!

27,794 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:37 PM
robj55;1632653 wrote:Yes I'm counting playoffs because the regular season obviously has less meaning to the Miami Heat than other teams. He did break down against the Spurs but still averaged 15 ppg but his fg% dipped to 44%, which is still better than almost any two guard in the league lol
Still wasn't 75%.
Jul 3, 2014 12:37pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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9,511 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:39 PM
lhslep134;1632654 wrote:And they also shot 3's.
Jordan never shot a lot of threes early in his career. The point of the game is to put the ball n the hole, Wade is able to do that and extremely efficiently because he can take and make his shots. Those were Kobe and Jordan's shots. That does weigh in but you can't penalize Wade because of it. Kobe should have had a higher fg% based on playing with the most dominant center we've ever seen and playing in one of the most advantageous systems this game has ever seen.
Jul 3, 2014 12:39pm
Classyposter58's avatar

Classyposter58

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Jul 3, 2014 12:40 PM
robj55;1632604 wrote:I stand by what I said, the east was bad but Miami beats all those other teams in a seven game series. No way to prove right or wrong.
Top 4 seeds in the West would all of have taken out Miami almost definitely. 50% chance they beat Portland, Golden State and Memphis
Jul 3, 2014 12:40pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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9,511 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:40 PM
wildcats20;1632655 wrote:Still wasn't 75%.
73%, see this is what you guys do to me lol Grasp at straws in effort to make me look bad/stupid and win an argument lol
Jul 3, 2014 12:40pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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9,511 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:41 PM
Classyposter58;1632657 wrote:Top 4 seeds in the West would all of have taken out Miami almost definitely. 50% chance they beat Portland, Golden State and Memphis
LOL, not even worth an intelligent response
Jul 3, 2014 12:41pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:43 PM
The absolute truest way to stack up Wade's regular season performance would be to take his true shooting percentage, which takes into account the difference between 2's, 3's, and FT's, and combine that to see who else has done what he did, >18.9 ppg and >.587 (Wade's TS% this year was .588).

The answer? 69 GUARDS (it wouldn't even be fair to use F/C, thus irrelevant) have averaged 19 while shooting .588 from the field. 66 players had better seasons doing it than Wade. 60 of those players were over 66% more effective than Wade when it comes to WS. The numbers simply do not lie.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=18.9&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.587&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
Jul 3, 2014 12:43pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

27,879 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:44 PM
Wade is not a top 25 player. End of discussion.
Jul 3, 2014 12:44pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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Jul 3, 2014 12:46 PM
lhslep134;1632660 wrote:The absolute truest way to stack up Wade's regular season performance would be to take his true shooting percentage, which takes into account the difference between 2's, 3's, and FT's, and combine that to see who else has done what he did, >18.9 ppg and >.587 (Wade's TS% this year was .588).

The answer? 69 players have averaged 19 while shooting .588 from the field. 66 players had better seasons doing it than Wade. 60 of those players were over 66% more effective than Wade when it comes to WS. The numbers simply do not lie.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&per_minute_base=36&type=advanced&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=18.9&c2stat=ts_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=.587&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
Once again you spin it because you were wrong. Carry on. I can tell about 2 people on here ever even touched a basketball in their lives. Referring to those metrics as your main argument means nothing to me in the end. Just a way for you to skew an argument in your favor. The facts are that Wade averaged 19, 5 and 5 on 55% shooting, that's what happened.
Jul 3, 2014 12:46pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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9,511 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:47 PM
sleeper;1632661 wrote:Wade is not a top 25 player. End of discussion.
Name me 25 better, this will be funny.
Jul 3, 2014 12:47pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:49 PM
robj55;1632662 wrote:Once again you spin it because you were wrong. Carry on. I can tell about 2 people on here ever even touched a basketball in their lives. Referring to those metrics as your main argument means nothing to me in the end. Just a way for you to skew an argument in your favor. The facts are that Wade averaged 19, 5 and 5 on 55% shooting, that's what happened.
So you're just completely disregarding a more relevant stat that takes into account the difference in shot types, in order to rest your argument on an archaic stat?
Jul 3, 2014 12:49pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:50 PM
robj55;1632662 wrote:Once again you spin it because you were wrong. Carry on. I can tell about 2 people on here ever even touched a basketball in their lives. Referring to those metrics as your main argument means nothing to me in the end. Just a way for you to skew an argument in your favor. The facts are that Wade averaged 19, 5 and 5 on 55% shooting, that's what happened.
Also, what exactly am I spinning? And what am I wrong about again?? I used Wade's numbers to see who else has done it. 68 others have done it, including 3 others this year, and 97% of them did so while providing more value.
Jul 3, 2014 12:50pm
sleeper's avatar

sleeper

Legend

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Jul 3, 2014 12:50 PM
robj55;1632664 wrote:Name me 25 better, this will be funny.
There are 15 players on the Spurs team for starters.
Jul 3, 2014 12:50pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jul 3, 2014 12:54 PM
Rob this isn't just directed at you, but rather all ignorant people: ADVANCED STATS EXIST FOR A REASON. THEY TELL A MORE COMPLETE STORY THAN BASIC, ARCHAIC STATS. TO DISREGARD ADVANCED NUMBERS IN FAVOR OF BASIC ONES THAT THE ADVANCED METRICS ALREADY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IS IGNORANT, SHORT-SIGHTED, AND THE MARK OF THE DUMB/STUBBORN.
Jul 3, 2014 12:54pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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Jul 3, 2014 12:54 PM
lhslep134;1632665 wrote:So you're just completely disregarding a more relevant stat that takes into account the difference in shot types, in order to rest your argument on an archaic stat?
If you're right then why don't we go off true shooting percentage historically? Because it's only another metric to look at and doesn't indicate what happened factually on the basketball court. I'm not ignoring it but it doesn't come first for me, or anyone else for that matter when comparing players and shooting percentages. When any expert discusses players they never discuss true shooting percentage because it's not as relevant as actual FG%.
Jul 3, 2014 12:54pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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Jul 3, 2014 12:55 PM
lhslep134;1632668 wrote:Rob this isn't just directed at you, but rather all ignorant people: ADVANCED STATS EXIST FOR A REASON. THEY TELL A MORE COMPLETE STORY THAN BASIC, ARCHAIC STATS. TO DISREGARD ADVANCED NUMBERS IN FAVOR OF BASIC ONES THAT THE ADVANCED METRICS TAKE INTO ACCOUNT IS IGNORANT, SHORT-SIGHTED, AND THE MARK OF THE DUMB.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but they should never been your main argumentative tool.
Jul 3, 2014 12:55pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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Jul 3, 2014 12:55 PM
sleeper;1632667 wrote:There are 15 players on the Spurs team for starters.
haha you're the best kind of troll, that's why we all love you
Jul 3, 2014 12:55pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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Jul 3, 2014 12:56 PM
lhslep134;1632666 wrote:Also, what exactly am I spinning? I used Wade's numbers to see who else has done it. 68 others have done it, including 3 others this year, and 97% of them did so while providing more value.
No 68 other shooting guards have not scored 19 ppg and shot 55% from the field.
Jul 3, 2014 12:56pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

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Jul 3, 2014 12:58 PM
robj55;1632669 wrote:doesn't indicate what happened factually on the basketball court.

HOW THE ACTUAL F*CK DOES IT NOT??? You're now arguing against an obvious fact, a staple of FW. Congrats

True shooting percentage does a BETTER JOB of detailing what factually happened.

Since you're advanced metric retarded, this conversation is over. Enjoy simmering in your primordial soup of basketball analysis.
Jul 3, 2014 12:58pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Jul 3, 2014 12:59 PM
I just dont know how you can watch Wade and say he is a top 25 player. He looks old, slow and incapable of doing anything on his own. He still holds value, but not top 25 player value.

Frankly, if you cant stay on the court and you cant make a 3PT shot, I dont want you as my starting 2G.
Jul 3, 2014 12:59pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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Jul 3, 2014 1:00 PM
lhslep134;1632675 wrote:HOW THE ACTUAL F*CK DOES IT NOT??? You're now arguing an obvious fact, a staple of FW. Congrats
You didn't answer my question, then why aren't advanced stats use when comparing players on a common basis? I agree that they are a measurable tool, but they should never be the first one you go to. Who's to say that those are accurate with all the different elements that go into them?
Jul 3, 2014 1:00pm
robj55's avatar

robj55

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Jul 3, 2014 1:02 PM
Laley23;1632676 wrote:I just dont know how you can watch Wade and say he is a top 25 player. He looks old, slow and incapable of doing anything on his own. He still holds value, but not top 25 player value.

Frankly, if you cant stay on the court and you cant make a 3PT shot, I dont want you as my starting 2G.
No he looked that way in the finals, he didn't look that way the rest of the season. If you didn't know who it was and I told you player A averaged 19 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg on 55% shooting as a TWO guard while only taking 14 shots per game and playing just over 32 mpg you would say that player is fantastic. There has been am overreaction since the finals performance, just like Pat Riley said.
Jul 3, 2014 1:02pm