sleeper;1632611 wrote:What pieces are they going to get? Where is this mythical young talent that will do so on the cheap?

The Heat won't win another championship with their current core and trash aging bench pieces. It's not like the current core is exactly dominating on the court.

I don't know which is why it's too early to judge. If they bring back Beasley and sign someone like Trevor Ariza that is a big start though. Their current core got them to 4 straight NBA finals which hadn't been done in 30 years. If they get their again next year they may not be favored but it gives them an opportunity to compete for one obviously. Too early to make any judgements though because we have no idea how it's all going to shake out.

robj55;1632603 wrote:Let me know when Kobe or any other two guard for that matter shoots 55% from the field scoring 20 a game while still getting you 5 and 5. Kobe's highest fg% for a season is 47%, if he ever got to 55% people would be going nuts over it. Wade is easily a top 25 player still, people are grasping at straws with arguments against that. People are letting their hatred get in the way of reality as I let my bias get the best of me sometimes. Some of the names listed ahead of him were laughable stretches. He played in 73% of his team's games last year, good enough for me. No average player scores 20 a game on 55% shooting, that's an absolute ridiculous statement.

If a player can only play two-thirds of the games in a season due to his body being worn down and STILL be somewhat of a liability during the NBA finals because he couldn't handle the "stress" of not getting days off, he is not a Top 25 player. There's no way anyone remotely intelligent can even argue this. He didn't miss nearly 30 games because of an injury (like how Westbrook missed the first however many of the season) -- he missed them because his body simply can't handle back-to-backs any more.

lhslep134;1632558 wrote:LMAO at you dude. You just implicitly admitted your entire argument is premised on the eye test while explicitly saying it's not. And you haven't brought up any numbers to back you up, so you're out of legs to stand on.

Once again, you failed to use reading comprehension because I said my NBA knowledge is superior when it comes to your flaming homerism of the Heat. Your non-Heat NBA opinions are generally good so I excluded those from this conversation.

Not only did you fail to comprehend what I wrote, your reading comprehension of what everyone's been posting the last couple pages is horrific as well. NO ONE is saying the Thunder WOULD beat the Heat, just that you're an idiot homer for vigorously denying the possibility.

Based on what I've seen over the last few years, OKC can't beat them. There is a reason Miami has won 9 of the last 11 meetings, they don't possess the style to beat them. Durant and Westbrook would have to both shoot 60% and that's not happening with their shot selection. I gave you guys numbers on Wade and they were dismissed because they don't count when I use them, I get responses like Wade sucks lol. Name me another shooting guard who has ever scored 20 ppg on 55% shooting, I doubt Michael even did that ever. What does that tell us? That he is still very good because not only can get get the shots he wants, but he can convert on them too. That means that he hasn't falling off and is still in the upper echelon of the league. If he were shooting low 40's percentage wise I would flat out agree with all of you no problem.

Heretic;1632614 wrote:If a player can only play two-thirds of the games in a season due to his body being worn down and STILL be somewhat of a liability during the NBA finals because he couldn't handle the "stress" of not getting days off, he is not a Top 25 player. There's no way anyone remotely intelligent can even argue this. He didn't miss nearly 30 games because of an injury (like how Westbrook missed the first however many of the season) -- he missed them because his body simply can't handle back-to-backs any more.

He had a bad finals but still averaged 15 ppg, not like he scored single digits. He played 73% of his team's games this year and could have played more, he was held out by the coaching staff many nights that he could have/should have played. When he is on the floor he is easily a top 25 player, I don't care if he can't play back to backs that has nothing to do with production on the floor. I see your point but we are talking about impact ON THE FLOOR here and production. No way anyone on this earth can convince me he's not a top 25 nba player.

sleeper;1632611 wrote:What pieces are they going to get? Where is this mythical young talent that will do so on the cheap?

The Heat won't win another championship with their current core and trash aging bench pieces. It's not like the current core is exactly dominating on the court.

And on top of that, what young player wants to go on a team and be the 4th or 5th option? Especially when old ass wade and raptor bosh is shooting 5 more shots a game then they are.

The heat will continue to attract dinosaurs looking to add a ring, they will NOT get good young talent. Just look at lowrys decision to resign with fucking canada over the heat.

robj55;1632615 wrote:Name me another shooting guard who has ever scored 20 ppg on 55% shooting

No one has ever done it.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=fg_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=55&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

lhslep134;1632622 wrote:No one has ever done it.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=20&c2stat=fg_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=55&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

Thank you for the research.

SportsAndLady;1632621 wrote:And on top of that, what young player wants to go on a team and be the 4th or 5th option? Especially when old ass wade and raptor bosh is shooting 5 more shots a game then they are.

The heat will continue to attract dinosaurs looking to add a ring, they will NOT get good young talent. Just look at lowrys decision to resign with fucking canada over the heat.

You may be right, but they don't need young guys in their prime. Sure that would be nice but guys like Battier and Miller were not in their prime when they went to Miami 4 years ago. They just need guys who will play their role and play it well. Having younger legs and athleticism obviously wouldn't hurt either.

robj55;1632626 wrote:Thank you for the research.

No I mean not even Wade has done it.

lhslep134;1632629 wrote:No I mean not even Wade has done it.

He averaged 19, close enough.

And rob, if you jigger it to 18.5 and 53% this is the list. Lo and behold, Wade is at the bottom when sorted by win shares because he didn't play enough games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=18.5&c2stat=fg_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=53&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

Funny enough, Magic Johnson was more valuable in 1980-81 playing in only 37 games putting up 18.5+ and 53%+ than Wade was last year playing in 54.

sleeper;1632611 wrote:What pieces are they going to get? Where is this mythical young talent that will do so on the cheap?

The Heat won't win another championship with their current core and trash aging bench pieces. It's not like the current core is exactly dominating on the court.

And on top of that, what young player wants to go on a team and be the 4th or 5th option? Especially when old ass wade and raptor bosh is shooting 5 more shots a game then they are.

The heat will continue to attract dinosaurs looking to add a ring, they will NOT get good young talent. Just look at lowrys decision to resign with fucking canada over the heat.

robj55;1632630 wrote:He averaged 19, close enough.

No, not close enough. Your point was invalid because no one has done it. You can't just discredit stats and then say 19 is 20. WTF are you trying to do here??

But I guess anytime Wade puts up the same numbers as Sarunas Marciulionis while generating less win shares, he's clearly​ a top 25 player. That's your point, right rob?

But I guess anytime Wade puts up the same numbers as Sarunas Marciulionis while generating less win shares, he's clearly​ a top 25 player. That's your point, right rob?

lhslep134;1632632 wrote:And rob, if you jigger it to 18.5 and 53% this is the list. Lo and behold, Wade is at the bottom when sorted by win shares because he didn't play enough games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=2014&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&shoot_hand=&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&qual=&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=18.5&c2stat=fg_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=53&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws

Funny enough, Magic Johnson was more valuable in 1980-81 playing in only 37 games putting up 18.5+ and 53%+ than Wade was last year playing in 54.

I don't know what all goes into win shares. All I know is he had a great season.

robj55;1632637 wrote:I don't know what all goes into win shares. All I know is he had a great season.

It's what it literally sounds like: the amount of wins you generate on your own.

lhslep134;1632635 wrote:No, not close enough. Your point was invalid because no one has done it. You can't just discredit stats and then say 19 is 20. WTF are you trying to do here??

It's one point per game, don't be a dick about it. Who has averaged 19 and shot 55% then as a two guard? Probably no one. You're trying to spin it anyway you can. You shoot that well from the field and you are still very good, no matter how you look at it.

lhslep134;1632638 wrote:It's what it literally sounds like: the amount of wins you generate on your own.

What all goes into it and how is it calculated?

robj55;1632637 wrote:I don't know what all goes into win shares. All I know is he had a great season.

It's how many wins a player generates over the season. It's among the truest approximations of value because it takes everything (injuries, playing time, etc.) into account.

Last year, Wade was 73rd in large part because of his inability to play a full season. But just because he shot the ball well doesn't mean he had a great season. Like the link shows, Magic's 37 game season was more than 1 win better than Wade's 54 game season. I don't know why it has to be repeated 40,000 times to you, but even if Wade has top 25 talent (which, arguably he does I can't deny that), he's not a top 25 player or top 25 in value because he can't stay on the court unless he does so ineffectively.

robj55;1632640 wrote:What all goes into it and how is it calculated?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

Disregards a stat. Doesn't know what the stat entails.

/rob

Do we have a depiction of where Wades shots were from. The guy is awful behind the arc, so I'd be curious how many runners and lay-ups he had. No way is he a 55% shooter if we are taking about actual shots.

lhslep134;1632641 wrote:It's how many wins a player generates over the season. It's among the truest approximations of value because it takes everything (injuries, playing time, etc.) into account.

Last year, Wade was 73rd in large part because of his inability to play a full season. But just because he shot the ball well doesn't mean he had a great season. Like the link shows, Magic's 37 game season was more than 1 win better than Wade's 54 game season. I don't know why it has to be repeated 40,000 times to you, but even if Wade has top 25 talent (which, arguably he does I can't deny that), he's not a top 25 player or top 25 in value because he can't stay on the court unless he does so ineffectively.

I completely understand that line of thinking, but he played 3/4's of his team's game, not like he only played 20 games this year. He is on the court for 3/4's of his team's games and is a top 20 player in this league hands down. Those metrics are interesting though. To the bolded part, how do we know that? He wasn't ineffective all season so how can you say that with certainty? The coaching staff held him out of games purposely to keep him fresh for what they knew would be a long, grueling playoff run.

Laley23;1632645 wrote:Do we have a depiction of where Wades shots were from. The guy is awful behind the arc, so I'd be curious how many runners and lay-ups he had. No way is he a 55% shooter if we are taking about actual shots.

It doesn't matter, he has never been a three point shooter. Therefore he is still able to get the shots he wants and make them at a ridiculously high rate for a two guard. Michael's highest fg% was 53 and Kobe's is 47 to put it in perspective.

He wasn't on the court for 3/4 unless counting playoffs...and at that point he broke down after/during the ECF with Pacers.