Devils Advocate;1605222 wrote:

Originally Posted by sleeper
I'll give you the logical answer. Prayer does nothing of real value but what it does do is give delusional people the hope that there is someone out there who is all powerful who can change it. If he chooses not to change it, then its part of his 'grand plan' for that person and it meant to happen. It's a coping mechanism, nothing more nothing less. If it held any real value, believers would just pray and never go to the doctor where science does all the actual work.

As far as bad things happening, don't you know its all the devil's fault? Believers don't really like talking about how god's plan involves killing millions of young children in Africa each year dying from HIV.

It looks like no one can/wants to refute that.

jmog;1605212 wrote:You forgot about the assumption that none of the lead comes from other radioactive elements that finish at lead as well. It is kind of convenient to forget an important assumption, especially when some of those elements like Polonium have half lives of seconds and days instead of billions of years.

Think about it, if the zircon had a mixture of the 8 main radioactive isotopes that all lead to lead when it started, since all of the others have MUCH shorter half lives, after just a couple years one would see ZERO zero concentration of the other isotopes and only uranium and lead would be left. Uranium because it hasn't had time to decay, lead from the small amount of uranium that has decayed AND from all the others that have fully decayed.

jmog;1605223 wrote:While technically possible (if one assumes a god could create the laws of physics, the same god could change them), it is a bad stance/argument.

However, radioactive decay while VERY stable, is still a chemical reaction. Chemical reaction rates most certainly are affected by temperature, pressure, and chemical composition. Now, it has been tested, observed and theorized that radioactive decay changes VERY SLIGHTLY with these parameters compared to most chemical reactions. This means that it would require VAST changes in temperature or pressure to notice a change in the half life. In other words, to do what this creation science quote is suggesting is that EITHER God did it miraculously (just changed it) or that God miraculously changed the temperature and pressure (both much higher than normal) of the rocks...which would bring in a whole other list of problems.

jmog;1605245 wrote:I am no theologian, just a scientist.

HitsRus;1605614 wrote: Originally Posted by sleeper

Again sleeper, I hate to destroy your self esteem again, but there is no logic that follows from faulty assumptions and premises. Further, you continue to make your case against anthropromorphisms used to help people's understanding ...as if they were to be taken literally.....making the same 'error' as those you criticize.

Do I really have to explain death and suffering again? I explained it to you last Friday. Go back and reread post #312.

As for the value of prayer and spirituality, not only is it a coping mechanism, but it appears to have value enough that 80 medical schools have added it to their cirricula since 1993....
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/can-prayer-heal


Done.

Or just positive thinking/feeling lowering stress levels which in turn lowers risk for disease?/

HitsRus;1605614 wrote:

Done.

You didn't refute anything.

BoatShoes;1605617 wrote:NO Jmog. The reason that mankind knows that the original isotope was Uranium is because there is a specific, scientific reason that Uranium atoms easily substitute for Zirconium Atoms...and you ought to know this since you're our resident "Scientist"...the reason is that Uranium and Zirconium both have the same ionic charge. Polonium does not share the same ionic charge as Zirconium and will not substitute for Zirconium atoms in the formation of a Zircon crystal.

Again, there is a reason that humankind settled on Zircon...because the real scientists were able to think of all of the silly arguments pseudoscientists dream up in their Bible Study classes and rule them out.

BoatShoes;1605618 wrote:You're right...it's an absolutely terrible stance/argument and yet it is the one being put out by the only Creation Science institute in the world because that is the best they can do despite their researchers with Ph.D's who are just as desperate for their wishful thinking to be true as you are. Anything is technically possible. A Teapot could be orbiting the sun, we could be in the matrix, there could be a flying spaghetti monster...but there's no good reason to believe any of that nonsense unless you want to take the Cartesian spiral and then you don't get anywhere anyway...you know nothing.

BoatShoes;1605619 wrote:New Rule. People who believe that an anthropomorphic God had a drunkard and giant rock monsters build a ship that housed all of the animals of the Earth including baby dinosaurs and repopulated the world on the promise (from a rainbow) that God wouldn't destroy mankind again with a flood don't get to call themselves scientists.

jmog;1605639 wrote:You left out the fact that Thorium is one of those in the HFSE group with Zirconium and Uranium (aka compatible) as well as in the decay chain between Uranium and Lead.

jmog;1605647 wrote:See, another example of you having no clue what you are talking about. You googled something, saw the descriptions of the movie Noah, and assumed the script writers followed the text in the Bible exactly.

There were no "rock monsters" in the Bible, that was added (as well as MANY other things in that movie) for whatever reason.

New rule, I could give a rats ass what you say I can call myself. You can also stop being a pretentious pompous ass at any time

characterized by assumption of dignity or importance, especially when exaggerated or undeserved: a pretentious, self-important waiter.

jmog;1605645 wrote:The only creation science institute? Come on...seriously?
The best they can do? Seriously?

You are better than that, you have become rather adept at googling things you don't understand and copy/pasting it in this thread, would it have been that hard to google other creation science groups like AiG, etc...here, I'll google that for you...

http://creation.com/creationist-organizations-in-the-usa

I count over 130 creation science groups there.

Also, who said that "that was the best they can do"? It was one article by one guy giving his one opinion that I am sure you cherry picked because of its argument. I am sure that either that particular group, AiG, and/or many others have other discussable theories but you didn't spend more than 30 seconds googling.

HitsRus;1605614 wrote: Originally Posted by sleeper

Again sleeper, I hate to destroy your self esteem again, but there is no logic that follows from faulty assumptions and premises. Further, you continue to make your case against anthropromorphisms used to help people's understanding ...as if they were to be taken literally.....making the same 'error' as those you criticize.

Do I really have to explain death and suffering again? I explained it to you last Friday. Go back and reread post #312.

As for the value of prayer and spirituality, not only is it a coping mechanism, but it appears to have value enough that 80 medical schools have added it to their cirricula since 1993....
http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/can-prayer-heal


Done.

^^^again Pmoney...you are making God into a being that we can easily understand...that would act like a human...with the reasoning of a human whose pattern/method of thinking is largely confined to three spatial dimensions and one dimension of time. Clearly, "He" would be so much more than that. "Listening and granting" would be something that a humanlike entity with simply more abilities would do

HitsRus;1605637 wrote:What didn't you understand? He said that prayer was nothing more than a coping mechanism. The link was about how science is studying prayer and it's effect on medicine. I added the statement about medical school curriculum because it is a related fact that shows that medical people take prayer and its ability to effect positive outcomes seriously....even if "sleeper" doesn't.

Please note: sleeper did not include a link to any legitimate scientific organization or scientific study that shows the prayer is nothing more that a 'coping mechanism".

His remark is simply 'off the cuff' as are most of his blathering.

HitsRus;1605637 wrote:What didn't you understand? He said that prayer was nothing more than a coping mechanism. The link was about how science is studying prayer and it's effect on medicine. I added the statement about medical school curriculum because it is a related fact that shows that medical people take prayer and its ability to effect positive outcomes seriously....even if "sleeper" doesn't.

Please note: sleeper did not include a link to any legitimate scientific organization or scientific study that shows the prayer is nothing more that a 'coping mechanism".

His remark is simply 'off the cuff' as are most of his blathering.

BoatShoes;1605653 wrote:I figured you might say that but that doesn't help your case either! The half-life of thorium-232 is 14 billion years and none of the isotopes of thorium have a half life that would be compatible with an Earth that is 6,000 - 10,000 years old. And, either way, they know that Zircons only contain trace amounts of Thorium!

jmog;1605700 wrote:Nice google error...

The 2 Thorium isotopes that are in the U-Pb decay chain are Thorium 234 and Thorium 230 NOT Thorium 232.

What are the half lives of those 2 Thorium isotopes?

Th234 half life is 24.10 days.
Th230 half life is 75,000 years.

Neither of which are billions of years.

You are not very good at googling this sciency stuff, you should keep trying though...what copy/paste information or video can you put up next? It is your M.O. is it not?

none of the isotopes of thorium have a half life that would be compatible with an Earth that is 6,000 - 10,000 years old.