I expect to be a borderline playoff team, no better, potentially worse.

GOONx19;1565002 wrote:I expect to be a borderline playoff team, no better, potentially worse.

I agree. With the moves that have been made in the division and then combined with our [lack of] moves, I would be surprised if we surpassed or even matched the 92 wins of last year. It is going to take some major development out of our guys.

Brantley, Santana and Kipnis have to turn into bona fide stars. Hopefully Gomes builds on the season he had last year. That should take a lot of stress off of Santana by allowing him to play 1st and DH much more. Swisher and Bourn need to play to their career averages.

Masterson will need to be a borderline CY Young candidate. Kluber and McAllister will need to combine more than 20 wins. Bauer or Salazar need to emerge as a steady #3ish starter this year with ace type potential in the future.

The Mafia needs to be the Mafia. Losing Joe Smith hurts.

If all of that happens...they should find themselves back in the playoff hunt.

Josh Tomlin is a wild card. There was a time when he was effective at getting hitters out. A consistent 4th or 5th starter out of him would be nice but asking a lot given his injury history.

Every day that passes without Ubaldo signing is good news for the Tribe. Very unlikely but a man can dream.

GOONx19;1565002 wrote:I expect to be a borderline playoff team, no better, potentially worse.

Face it........probably worse.

I agree. With the moves that have been made in the division and then combined with our [lack of] moves, I would be surprised if we surpassed or even matched the 92 wins of last year. It is going to take some major development out of our guys

Face it........probably worse.

Yeah, I don't see this team as better than last year...with the understanding that they are not done yet.


But the way I see it, we lost our #2 pitcher (UJ), our #4-5 pitcher (Kazmir).... and depth from our starting rotation with only Marcum added and there is no guarantee he is going to be worth anything. I think we have plenty of young arms to fill the bottom of the rotation....Bauer, Carrasco, Tomlin....but the loss of Jimenez, who was in no small way responsible to getting to 92 wins...is a HUGE loss (even if it hasn't become official yet.) Maybe Axford replacxes Perez...maybe Outman replaces Smith...and maybe Atchison replaces Albers....but that's a lot of maybes in the BP. worse, I think we got older and slower in Right field, and on the basepaths losing Stubbs.

Still I'll consider it a successful off season if they can somehow retain Ubaldo, or add a top of the rotation guy. I'm not interested in a bottom of the rotation addition. It would also bode well if they extend Masterson...
Otherwise you are ,looking at a .500 team easily beaten by KC and Detroit.

Why would Cleveland be worse? Only thing I can see is KC being legit this season, but Chicago and Minny still absolutely blow and the series between you guys and Detroit were pretty even so there's a lot of inter-divisional wins compared to teams in the East or West

^^^^note my edit to my earlier post

Classyposter58;1565208 wrote:Why would Cleveland be worse? Only thing I can see is KC being legit this season, but Chicago and Minny still absolutely blow and the series between you guys and Detroit were pretty even so there's a lot of inter-divisional wins compared to teams in the East or West

The Indians were 4-15 against Detroit......

They couldn't beat Detroit, Tampa, New York, or Boston if their lives depended on it. They were 8-31 against those teams.

Glory Days;1565374 wrote:The Indians were 4-15 against Detroit......

They couldn't beat Detroit, Tampa, New York, or Boston if their lives depended on it. They were 8-31 against those teams.

Lol I'm starting to think Classy doesn't actually watch baseball. Just a big troll.

GOONx19;1565402 wrote:Lol I'm starting to think Classy doesn't actually watch sports. Just a big troll.

FIFY

GOONx19;1565402 wrote:Lol I'm starting to think Classy doesn't actually watch baseball. Just a big troll.

You are just starting to think that?

like_that;1565418 wrote:You are just starting to think that?

No lol I really thought it was more even than that. Season was so long ago I don't remember

I always knew he was a moron, but I was under the impression he watched the games before he posted his horseshit.

The Indians were 4-15 against Detroit......

They couldn't beat Detroit, Tampa, New York, or Boston if their lives depended on it. They were 8-31 against those teams.

I think there is reason for that, and I think this will continue next year. Francona is a great manager, but he underutilized the team's speed and under ran Stubbs and Bourn. When you line up against teams that are superior in hitting/pitching you are going to lose on average unless you can beat them in other ways. When we played Detroit in particular, they had slightly better pitching and we were outgunned by a wide margin at the plate. The Tribe kept things close by having the superior defense. I think we could have evened the series a bit if we attacked their relatively weak/slow defense with our speed. It was maddening to me to see Stubbs or Bourn staying put( and dying) on fiirst base while we waited for the big hit.

It seemed to me that the Tigers were more aggressive on the basepaths than we were. I would be curious to see how many attempted steals/hit and runs they ran against us versus vice versa. One thing is for sure, and that is we could have attacked their catcher (who threw out would be base stealers at about 1 for 6) much more than we did. That would not have made the difference in all the games, but might have made the difference in the close losses.....7-12 is not good, but alot better than 4-15.

So far this year, we have lost Stubbs, opting for a platoon out in right, so we have gotten slower... hoping that Murphy will provide more pop at the plate. Considering how little we used Stubbs speed, what difference does it make?
Unless we add a big bat, we are still going to line up against Detroit (and this year KC too) and come up short on the pitching and hitting...only now we no longer have as much speed.

adding a bat......was reading bleacherreport, and they were talking about the Tribe being interested in Bobby Abreu (age 40)????? more lightning in a bottle.

GOONx19;1565402 wrote:Lol I'm starting to think Classy doesn't actually watch baseball. Just a big troll.

Especially since during the season, he was always crowing about how Detroit owned Cleveland in baseball.

Heretic;1565513 wrote:Especially since during the season, he was always crowing about how Detroit owned Cleveland in baseball.

Oh stfu I forgot, I just remember them being somewhat decent. But yeah now I think about all the shit you guys talk about Detroit and wow have you seen that lineup, yet the Tigers ran a train on them like a drunk girl at a Steubenville high school party. Hey at least no one was actually there at Progressive Field to actually watch the Tigers do that though

The Tribe is in the mix for Masihiro Tanaka.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/01/indians-notes-tanaka-rotation-johan-abreu.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

We as Tribe fans have been conditioned not to expect too much. Mentioning Tanaka and the Indians in the same sentence seems pretty far fetched.

Tanaka is the domino that will get the rest of the free agent pitchers falling....Ubaldo, Garza, Santana, Arroyo. The pitching market has been quiet ...waiting for Tanaka to sign and establish the market. With pitchers and catchers reporting in just 5 weeks once Tanaka signs expect a flurry of activity as the 'losers' in this competition go after the other 4.
One other thing that Tanaka is holding up.....the Tribe's attempt at extending Justin Masterson. Both the Tribe and Masterson are said to be willing, but they are waiting to see this year's market to establish his value.

HitsRus;1565798 wrote:The Tribe is in the mix for Masihiro Tanaka.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/01/indians-notes-tanaka-rotation-johan-abreu.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

We as Tribe fans have been conditioned not to expect too much. Mentioning Tanaka and the Indians in the same sentence seems pretty far fetched.

Tanaka is the domino that will get the rest of the free agent pitchers falling....Ubaldo, Garza, Santana, Arroyo. The pitching market has been quiet ...waiting for Tanaka to sign and establish the market. With pitchers and catchers reporting in just 5 weeks once Tanaka signs expect a flurry of activity as the 'losers' in this competition go after the other 4.
One other thing that Tanaka is holding up.....the Tribe's attempt at extending Justin Masterson. Both the Tribe and Masterson are said to be willing, but they are waiting to see this year's market to establish his value.

Tanaka could potential change this team significantly. And could potentially put us as contenders. I don't see it happening at all though.

classlessdipshit58;1565796 wrote:Oh stfu I forgot, I just remember them being somewhat decent. But yeah now I think about all the shit you guys talk about Detroit and wow have you seen that lineup, yet the Tigers ran a train on them like a drunk girl at a Steubenville high school party. Hey at least no one was actually there at Progressive Field to actually watch the Tigers do that though

http://www.ohiochatter.com/forum/showthread.php?43464-Classy-s-Detroit-thread&p=1565854&viewfull=1#post1565854

HitsRus;1565798 wrote:The Tribe is in the mix for Masihiro Tanaka.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/01/indians-notes-tanaka-rotation-johan-abreu.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

We as Tribe fans have been conditioned not to expect too much. Mentioning Tanaka and the Indians in the same sentence seems pretty far fetched.

Tanaka is the domino that will get the rest of the free agent pitchers falling....Ubaldo, Garza, Santana, Arroyo. The pitching market has been quiet ...waiting for Tanaka to sign and establish the market. With pitchers and catchers reporting in just 5 weeks once Tanaka signs expect a flurry of activity as the 'losers' in this competition go after the other 4.
One other thing that Tanaka is holding up.....the Tribe's attempt at extending Justin Masterson. Both the Tribe and Masterson are said to be willing, but they are waiting to see this year's market to establish his value.

Seems like a pipe dream. Would be pretty exciting, though.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/cle/justin-masterson-michael-brantley-among-six-to-file-for-arbitration?ymd=20140114&content_id=66613344&vkey=news_cle

5 Tribe players filed for arbitration yesterday, including Justin Masterson and Micheal Brantley. This is a critical process and time for Masterson and the Indians as they seek to work out an extension (Both parties are willing) to keep the big right hander in Cleveland more than next year. If no agreement is reached, Masterson could become a free agent in 2015. Based on his performance last year, Masterson will earn at least $9-10 million this year...so if an extension is to be reached, expect it to be considerably north of that figure.

Newly acquired reliever Josh Outman (drew Stubbs trade) signed a one year deal and avoided arbitration.

Tony Plush signed to a minor league deal.

^^^Tribe taking care of the minutia as it waits for the Tanaka deal to go down, break the logjam and set the market for the remainder of the free agent pitching. Picking up 'Tony' could be the sleeper deal of the year


JMHO, but I would consider it a good off season, if the team extends Masterson and either 1) retains Ubaldo Jimenez for at least another year, or, 2) signs a middle of the order bat...(Kendrys Morales??)

Those two moves, along with Bourne and Swisher being under contract, and several other players being under control, would guarantee a 'window of opportunity' for a few years..... We would have a solid starting pitching staff with depthand a reasonably potent offense.

In the "Where are They Now" department....

....looking for jobs.

Travis Hafner has taken a coaches position at Notre Dame College (D2). There has been little interest in offering the free agent a major league contract. Hafner hit .202 with 12 home runs in 82 games for the Yanks last year. Hafner may consider retirement.
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2014/01/notre-dame-college-adds-travis-hafner-to-baseball-staff/

Grady Sizemore conitnues to work out. The Reds apparently have at least talked to him. Sizemore has had 12 surgeries since 2009. He is only 31 years old.
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24397050/gm-walt-jocketty-confirms-reds-have-talked-to-grady-sizemore

The Yankees are supposedly really high on Tanaka. Hal Steinbrenner (the smart one) is on the record as saying he thinks Tanaka is going to be a great pitcher, and that the Yankees need another starter.

The Dodgers on the other hand want Tanaka, and their GM has said that Kershaw's extension has no bearing on their ability to bid on Tanaka.

“The Yankees have the greater need, and maybe a little more pressure to sign Tanaka after learning they won't have to pay A-Rod in 2014,” Olney writes. “The Dodgers are perceived by some rival officials to be more shameless in their bidding, untethered to market prices shaped by other teams, and more driven by what they want.”

A pissing contest between these 2 likely leaves the Tribe looking for other options.

If the Yankees land Tanaka, that presumably would take them out of play for Ubaldo, which could create a scenario in which he could come back to Cleveland. It's just not going to be for $10 million a year, and the Dolan's are going to have to pry open their checkbook.

The same is going to apply to a Masterson extension. You might not have to pay full blown market pricing, but he is going to be a $14-15 million a year guy at a minimum, and if they aren't willing to go there they should move him as much as it sickens me to say.

Tribe has agreed with 'Scrabble' on a one year $1.375 million contract....After coming over from the Cardinals, he posted a .089 ERA in 27 games out of the pen.


Tigers' note: Kittys and Scherzer have agree to a one year $15.25 million deal.