Eddie Griffin is a great call. He was a monster.

Griffin wasn't even a bad NBA player. Had he not died, he's probably still playing. Died at age 25...a shame.

Relative to his collegiate numbers and where he was drafted -- lottery -- Griffin's career averages of 7 points and 5 rebounds were not great. Maybe bust was too harsh a word, but, when also considering all of his off-the-court issues (i.e. substance abuse) and problems with teammates, I'm not so sure. Agreed that it is a tragedy he died so young. Maybe he could've turned it around.

SportsAndLady;1528127 wrote:May not be a bad list to start...OC's 10 greatest freshman since 2000.

Why since 2000?

Anyways....Carmelo makes the top 10 easily

Azubuike24;1528138 wrote:That I've seen with having a conscious view of college ball as I see it today (we'll go about the last 15 years). I'm only 30, so I can't include guys who were there when I was like 8 years old. Really hard to categorize.

1. Michael Beasley
2. Kevin Durant
3. Derrick Rose
4. Kevin Love
5. Anthony Davis
6. Allen Iverson
7. Chris Webber
8. Carmelo Anthony
9. Luol Deng
10. Jason Kidd

I've excluded Chris Jackson, Patrick Ewing and Wayman Tisdale, who are all usually on top 10 lists of greatest Freshman ever, only because I was in single digits when those guys played.

Everyone always ranks Carmelo high, same with Anthony Davis. Both must be on here because of their impact in March.

My first though was Chris Jackson....he was unbelievable. He seemed to play ever quarter "in the zone" lightning quick shot and would pull up from ridiculous parts of the court.

He became a bit of an oddball in the NBA but his game and his story of having turrets was incredible. He would takes several minutes getting out the door because he had to touch it a certain way or he wouldn't turn it to open. Took forever to tie his shoes because had to feel exactly right and the best was every day he ended practice shooting free throws.....but he would not leave until he made 10 shots in a row and they had to make the same noise....or he'd start over. Needless to say he was a decent free throw shooter.

What does everyone think about the new rules?

Sounds like there are going to be some terrible games to watch, especially early. Refs are going to have an even greater influence, which I think is the last thing anybody wanted.

Ironman92;1528230 wrote:My first though was Chris Jackson....he was unbelievable. He seemed to play ever quarter "in the zone" lightning quick shot and would pull up from ridiculous parts of the court.

He became a bit of an oddball in the NBA but his game and his story of having turrets was incredible. He would takes several minutes getting out the door because he had to touch it a certain way or he wouldn't turn it to open. Took forever to tie his shoes because had to feel exactly right and the best was every day he ended practice shooting free throws.....but he would not leave until he made 10 shots in a row and they had to make the same noise....or he'd start over. Needless to say he was a decent free throw shooter.

http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1137903/1/index.htm

30.2 ppg as a frosh and scored 55 in a game

I'm not sure yet re the rule changes, but I do hope that teams like Louisville are no longer allowed to employ their hoodlum approach to defense. Sans the mugging aspect of Louisville's full-court press, they do not win last season's national championship. Honestly, I would rather have watched a free-throw contest than what they were doing. Removing some of that junk, at least on the perimeter, will really open up the game in the long run.

Ironman92;1528240 wrote:http://si.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1137903/1/index.htm

30.2 ppg as a frosh and scored 55 in a game

http://www.lmulions.com/sports/m-baskbl/archive/022405aab.html

That is basketball. Wish the game was still played that way today. LSU, Oklahoma, Loyola and US International broke all sorts of scoring records back in the day. And in the NBA, there was the Showtime Lakers, Nellie's Golden State Warrior, Doug Moe's Denver Nuggets and an overall more exciting brand of basketball.

There has been a downward trend in offense in hoops at all levels for almost two decades. Hell, last season's national scoring leader in college basketball was Northwestern State at 81 points per game. Only TWO teams averaged more than 80. Ten years earlier, in 2001-02, three teams eclipsed 90 points per game, with Cincinnati leading the nation at 95.5. Eighteen teams in all topped 80 points per night.

Would love to see that type of game again.

The new rules are really going to help teams with guys who can attack the basket relentlessly AND make their FT's. It's also going to help teams who can create match-up problems, like forcing bigs to come out and guard or vice versa.

It should be a much higher scoring, more entertaining season. However, there are going to be some games here and there that are complete stinker, foul-fests. Louisville will be involved in a few of them...

Azubuike24;1528282 wrote:The new rules are really going to help teams with guys who can attack the basket relentlessly AND make their FT's. It's also going to help teams who can create match-up problems, like forcing bigs to come out and guard or vice versa.

It should be a much higher scoring, more entertaining season. However, there are going to be some games here and there that are complete stinker, foul-fests. Louisville will be involved in a few of them...

How about VCU with the "Havoc" defense?

Better prepare to miss the first ten minutes of any game being played in those 7pm and then 9pm splits. The fouls are going to make the games that much longer. Teams walking up and down the court to shoot free throws.

Pick6;1528284 wrote:How about VCU with the "Havoc" defense?

I think they will be fine. Unlike Louisville, they dont go 1-1 in their press often. Its more of a run and jump and off the ball they jump passing lanes. That shouldnt find them committing too many more fouls than last year.

Shocked nobody mentioned Blake Griffin in that top 10, dude was a monster at Oklahoma. Averaged 23 and 14.4, shot 65% and had basically had a double double in every game of his Soph year. Another guy I loved was ET, dude averaged 20-9-6 his final season, hit the greatest buzzer beater of all time, and was PG on offense and PF on D because we had nobody big other than Lauderdale. Just an awesome college player

Classyposter58;1528317 wrote:Shocked nobody mentioned Blake Griffin in that top 10, dude was a monster at Oklahoma. Averaged 23 and 14.4, shot 65% and had basically had a double double in every game of his Soph year. Another guy I loved was ET, dude averaged 20-9-6 his final season, hit the greatest buzzer beater of all time, and was PG on offense and PF on D because we had nobody big other than Lauderdale. Just an awesome college player

Probably because they weren't great FRESHMAN.

Classyposter58;1528317 wrote:Shocked nobody mentioned Blake Griffin in that top 10, dude was a monster at Oklahoma. Averaged 23 and 14.4, shot 65% and had basically had a double double in every game of his Soph year. Another guy I loved was ET, dude averaged 20-9-6 his final season, hit the greatest buzzer beater of all time, and was PG on offense and PF on D because we had nobody big other than Lauderdale. Just an awesome college player

Lol it's a list of best freshmen.

smh...

For those who care, Id go Durant #1. I almost skipped an IU game to stay home and watch his match-up with OKST (I think it was them), ended up just DVRing it and thank God. Dude went off and it was just an awesome game (even though Texas lost).

1. Durant
2. Beasley
3. Oden (how am I the ONLY one who has mentioned him...??)
4. Rose
5. Love
6. Carmelo
7. Davis
8. Curry (call me crazy, cause of competition...but anyone who watched him in his first week knew what was ahead)
9. Chris Paul (another guy you just had to watch. #s dont jump out, but he was something special on the court as a FR)
10. Gordon (my homer pick. Wish he hadnt broken his wrist in his only year)

Azubuike24;1528282 wrote:It should be a much higher scoring, more entertaining season.

I think there's going to be almost no flow to games, at least for the first couple months. It may be higher scoring, but unless you love watching free throws I doubt it will be more entertaining.

I agree with you to some extent, but I also think people are not giving coaches enough credit. Some will pick up on it quicker than others and you will see some very, very entertaining games with very little physical defense and some great offensive performances.

Now, people are also going to perceive this as guys "not D'ing up", but it will be simply because they think they can out-run some of their opponents and go deeper.

What are these new rules? I haven't read much into it (obviously)

SportsAndLady;1528593 wrote:What are these new rules? I haven't read much into it (obviously)

I don't know the exact wording, but you basically cannot touch an opponent on defense at all if they are not in the paint (I believe).

SportsAndLady;1528593 wrote:What are these new rules? I haven't read much into it (obviously)

If two hands are caught on an offensive player, it's an automatic foul. Basically, every hand check will be called.

Also, there will be slightly more "continuation" this year as if the hand, arm or ball is at all going toward the basket, it will be a shooting foul.

Or if a forearm is on the player, or if 1 hand is on "continuously".

I love the block/charge change. Hopefully it dramatically cuts back on the flopping. But the hand check rule is just going to be ridiculous.

Bottom line, Rick Pitino has some major adjustments to make. The NCAA was watching last spring. Thank God.

While I do agree with Mulva, in that I don't want the referees to have too much control that they are in effect deciding the games with their whistles, what teams like Louisville were doing had to stop. This isn't Mortal Kombat. It's basketball. Hand-to-hand combat was completely changing the game, and, as evidenced by the downward trend in scoring nationwide that I referenced above, it was not for the better.