MIT Shooting/Bombing Suspect Manhunt - Suspect 1: DEAD, Suspect 2: In Custody

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Glory Days

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Apr 21, 2013 3:33 AM
Mulva;1430873 wrote:You're probably right. I'm naive to the fact that sometimes shootouts should end with wanted terrorists escaping on foot and disappearing into the night.
he escaped in an SUV...
Apr 21, 2013 3:33am
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gut

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Apr 21, 2013 3:36 AM
Mulva;1430871 wrote:One of the planes on 9/11 was crashed into a field. Should security not be criticized because it didn't end up taking out any buildings?
Another strawman. If he had the intention and ability to take out civilians, being caught or not is really irrelevant. He could have done it at any time. He could have done it in the hours he was laying in that boat. At any time in the night, he could have barged into a house and started shooting.

And, once again. They SEARCHED that house. That's not a failure of the department or methods, it is perhaps a failure of a few individuals.
/debate
Apr 21, 2013 3:36am
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said_aouita

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Apr 21, 2013 5:27 AM
OSH;1430809 wrote:, I am sure it wasn't easy to keep an eye on where an individual was going. Bottom line: no one on this board that is posting was there or knows how to do this properly.
Belly could have caught him with one eye tied behind his back.
Apr 21, 2013 5:27am
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said_aouita

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Apr 21, 2013 5:46 AM
Mulva;1430771 wrote:
Terrorist 2 of 2 is outside of 10,000 cop perimeter and discovered by citizen after law enforcement lifts indoor order because they didn't find him.

Yes, I think it should have been better.

Should we have monthly "hide and seek" games in all of the nations largest cities for law enforcement? To make it most realistic, one day a month you are not allowed to leave your home while the games go on.

The fact that only 10k cops found one individual within four square miles of an urban environment is impressive.
Apr 21, 2013 5:46am
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vball10set

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Apr 21, 2013 7:28 AM
They caught them within a week of the bombings. They found a needle in a haystack looking at homemade videos and a camera mounted above a department store. Above all, they caught suspect #2 without anyone else getting hurt/killed. I'd say they did a pretty decent job.
Apr 21, 2013 7:28am
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WebFire

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Apr 21, 2013 9:46 AM
Mulva;1430850 wrote:That's a fair point. He almost definitely wasn't getting out of the boat. But I don't think it negates the point that the perimeter established was too small. If he wasn't injured so severely he likely would have been well outside of the perimeter. And I don't think it negates that he shouldn't have been able to escape the initial shootout.

Terrorist or not, I kind of feel like its the cops jobs to make sure that doesn't happen. If a suspect engages a firefight with police, they shouldn't escape the scene. If it was a random gangbanger who eluded police I would be saying the same thing. There's just a lot more focus on this situation.
So based on the intelligence you had during the manhunt, how big would you have made the perimeter? I'm sure you've got it figured out. If they would have had a 1,000 block perimeter, and found him in the 1,001st block, you would be saying it wasn't big enough.

You and rec are making a lot of assumptions based on no fact. We don't know a fraction of the actual facts to make conclusions like you two are.

As for the initial shootout, did they even know at that point they were dealing with these two? I ask because I honestly don't know.

Here is my thought: They shoot the MIT guy and run. By the time police catch up, they are already 5 miles away. They have a shootout with their limited resources available in the time frame. One gets away, which is not an uncommon occurrence. That happens all the time across the country (not the shootout, but suspects fleeing and getting away). Based in the intelligence they had, they felt he was either within the perimeter they were searching, or he was long gone. Like I stated earlier, the bigger the perimeter, the more resources and the longer it takes. You can't feasibly just make the perimeter a gajillion square miles. In the end, they missed it by 1 block. Now, on one hand, that is pretty damn good. On the other, it could have been a fatal mistake.

But to sit here and criticize them with the limited knowledge we have, is just a damn joke.
Apr 21, 2013 9:46am
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ZWICK 4 PREZ

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Apr 21, 2013 9:53 AM
I can't believe you monkeys are still arguing over this.
Apr 21, 2013 9:53am
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WebFire

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Apr 21, 2013 9:54 AM
You guys stayed up pretty late arguing about this shit. :D
Apr 21, 2013 9:54am
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Pick6

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Apr 21, 2013 11:20 AM
sheesh, spending hours into a late saturday night arguing over trivial bullshit. get a life.
Apr 21, 2013 11:20am
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Mulva

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Apr 21, 2013 12:20 PM
said_aouita;1430879 wrote:The fact that only 10k cops found one individual within four square miles of an urban environment is impressive.
A civilian found him.
Glory Days;1430874 wrote:yes, and to do one correctly takes time. especially with many different agencies involved using different radios etc.
They should have taken a little bit more time then, because it apparently wasn't done correctly.
Glory Days;1430875 wrote:he escaped in an SUV...
Getting 2-3 blocks away doesn't qualifying as "escaping" after a police shootout.
gut;1430876 wrote:And, once again. They SEARCHED that house. That's not a failure of the department or methods, it is perhaps a failure of a few individuals.
/debate
That isn't what the police commissioner indicated.
WebFire;1430894 wrote:So based on the intelligence you had during the manhunt, how big would you have made the perimeter? I'm sure you've got it figured out.
I'm pretty sure I've covered the fact that I don't have it all figured out plenty of times at this point.
WebFire;1430894 wrote:But to sit here and criticize them with the limited knowledge we have, is just a damn joke.
The only knowledge I'm using is quotes from law enforcement press conferences, including "he fled on foot" and eluded by being "slightly outside of 20 block perimeter".
WebFire;1430896 wrote:You guys stayed up pretty late arguing about this shit. :D
No kidding. I had no idea until it was over.
Pick6;1430926 wrote:sheesh, spending hours into a late saturday night arguing over trivial bullshit. get a life.
No.
Apr 21, 2013 12:20pm
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WebFire

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Apr 21, 2013 12:36 PM
What I heard was that he fled by vehicle, and at some point ditched the vehicle and continued on foot.
Apr 21, 2013 12:36pm
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Mulva

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Apr 21, 2013 12:40 PM
WebFire;1430951 wrote:What I heard was that he fled by vehicle, and at some point ditched the vehicle and continued on foot.
The only specific comments I found were that he ditched the vehicle after 2-3 blocks. I think the entire discussion has probably run its course by this point though haha.
Apr 21, 2013 12:40pm
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WebFire

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Apr 21, 2013 1:04 PM
Mulva;1430953 wrote:The only specific comments I found were that he ditched the vehicle after 2-3 blocks. I think the entire discussion has probably run its course by this point though haha.
It hasn't run the course as long as people are going to be critical of the shootout without knowing this. Wouldn't you agree?
Apr 21, 2013 1:04pm
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said_aouita

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Apr 21, 2013 1:21 PM
reclegend22;1430820 wrote:? Maybe I will go out and rob a bank tonight. Sounds like the getaway will be a surefire thing as long as I'm in an SUV.
Best chances to escape is fleeing on foot, especially if you were only 19 and a former varsity athlete who still works out.
Apr 21, 2013 1:21pm
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Mulva

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Apr 21, 2013 1:37 PM
WebFire;1430957 wrote:It hasn't run the course as long as people are going to be critical of the shootout without knowing this. Wouldn't you agree?
I would not. Hence my comment.
Apr 21, 2013 1:37pm
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vball10set

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Apr 21, 2013 1:39 PM
With all due respect, there are a helluva lot of stupid comments on here. IMO.
Apr 21, 2013 1:39pm
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WebFire

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Apr 21, 2013 2:15 PM
Mulva;1430981 wrote:I would not. Hence my comment.
I see. You are making a case using facts you do not know of, and that is the end of it.
Apr 21, 2013 2:15pm
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Mulva

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Apr 21, 2013 2:27 PM
WebFire;1430994 wrote:I see. You are making a case using facts you do not know of, and that is the end of it.
I "made a case" based on police quotes. If they're stating incorrect information that isn't my problem. You do realize that everyone else here is doing the exact same thing - with the exact same information - only from the opposite perspective, right?
Apr 21, 2013 2:27pm
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OSH

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Apr 21, 2013 6:31 PM
Mulva;1430998 wrote:I "made a case" based on police quotes. If they're stating incorrect information that isn't my problem. You do realize that everyone else here is doing the exact same thing - with the exact same information - only from the opposite perspective, right?
Not really. I am taking the stance of "not being critical since we do not know everything that the authorities did."

We know nothing. Just because someone states 2-3 blocks/streets doesn't mean it couldn't be 4-5. He could've driven close to a half mile (which is 3-4 blocks possibly) and also had how much of a head start on any pursuing authorities?

We don't know anything really. So, I am not quick to criticize those that saved lives.
Apr 21, 2013 6:31pm
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gut

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Apr 21, 2013 6:49 PM
OSH;1431080 wrote: We don't know anything really. So, I am not quick to criticize those that saved lives.
Pretty much. Former NYC chief (I think) called the lockdown "genius". It was really an unprecedented move. And a lot of suppositional criticism going on here calling it a failure based on not grabbing him in a few hours and what could have happened. Problem is what DID happen simply isn't remotely a failure.

And, for that matter, we could all play the suppositional game of "what could have happened" if they don't lock things down in the first place. They got people off the streets, and they had everyone on high alert. That might very well have saved lives. And in the end it worked, because even though he was outside the perimeter he really had nowhere he could go.

Maybe it simply illustrates how tough it is to search door-to-door effectively. For all the talk of 10k cops, consider just in Watertown the lockdown took 30k civilians off the street. If that security guard goes to work instead of staying home, they might have had that boat photo early in the morning. There are clear advantages and disadvantages to the lockdown, and I think the efficacy of it is pretty hard to determine.
Apr 21, 2013 6:49pm
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LJ

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Apr 21, 2013 6:55 PM
Mulva;1430953 wrote:The only specific comments I found were that he ditched the vehicle after 2-3 blocks. I think the entire discussion has probably run its course by this point though haha.
So he busted through police lines in an SUV with an unknown amount of explosives, ditched the car in around 250 yards probably with it still rolling and disappears into a dense neighborhood. This isn't Cops where they were already chasing him and he ran into a neighborhood full of 1/2 acre lots
Apr 21, 2013 6:55pm
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skank

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Apr 21, 2013 7:10 PM
vball10set;1430983 wrote:With all due respect, there are a helluva lot of stupid comments on here. IMO.


And that is differs from any other day/subject on here how?
Apr 21, 2013 7:10pm
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WebFire

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Apr 21, 2013 7:11 PM
Mulva;1430998 wrote:I "made a case" based on police quotes. If they're stating incorrect information that isn't my problem. You do realize that everyone else here is doing the exact same thing - with the exact same information - only from the opposite perspective, right?
False. All I am doing is saying you shouldn't be so critical. If we were to learn facts to say otherwise, then I'd say fire away. It seems to me people have false expectation of what really happens, though.
Apr 21, 2013 7:11pm