MIT Shooting/Bombing Suspect Manhunt - Suspect 1: DEAD, Suspect 2: In Custody

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Apr 20, 2013 10:33 PM
Mulva;1430735 wrote: Even in a normal situation I would find no backup arriving after 10 minutes troubling so close to a major city. This shortly after a major terrorist incident is pretty inexcusable. And assuming it did show up then letting him get away is equally inexcusable.
I don't know. I haven't been able to find a good account of that shootout. Assuming it lasted 10 minutes, I'd agree with you that plenty of back-up should have gotten there. But I don't know that he was surrounded (not sure how they'd set-up to avoid cross-fire) and I don't know how many pursued him (and there were unexploded IED's left behind probably slowed them).

I said earlier in the thread that it didn't seem unreasonable that they could lose him among the houses. He's heavily armed and you have civilians to be concerned with, so they aren't following him blindly in aggressive pursuit in between the houses. He knows the neighborhood so I'm not surprised at all he was able to put some distance between himself.

As for lifting the lockdown, I'm not sure how it's really any more dangerous. If he was conscious and armed there was never anything preventing him from raiding a home. It's not like everyone was going to go congregate in a big group, and in fact they still urged people to remain indoors.

You don't typically lock everyone down for an armed and dangerous suspect. I think that was as much to make the cops job easier as anything, and because they weren't sure if there were unexploded IED's scattered around. They swept the area, they don't know where he is, I'm not sure why a continued lockdown would have been justified.
Apr 20, 2013 10:33pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:35 PM
WebFire;1430745 wrote:I thought you weren't criticizing.

Please, I ask again, how would YOU have done it?
Honestly, I would hope the people trained to do this shit would establish a better barricade/perimeter so that a wanted terrorist would have no ability to drive or run away.

You wouldn't necessarily have to do anything differently. You would just have to do it better. That's why the blame isn't on one person.
Apr 20, 2013 10:35pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:39 PM
sherm03;1430743 wrote:Come on now. It wasn't even close to 24 hours. Don't be that guy and blow it up like he was on the run in this small area the entire weekend.
It wasn't even close to 24 hours? Don't be that guy and play it down like he wasn't on the run in this small area for an entire day. He was. After hijacking a car at around 10 p.m. and then being surrounded by possibly two dozen armed police officers, the most wanted teenage terrorist in the world -- and his brother -- killed one of them and injured 15 others before fleeing by foot. He was discovered by a civilian at around 8 p.m. the next day. So it was approximately 22 hours, almost a full day.
Apr 20, 2013 10:39pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:39 PM
Mulva;1430749 wrote:Honestly, I would hope the people trained to do this shit would establish a better barricade/perimeter so that a wanted terrorist would have no ability to drive or run away.

You wouldn't necessarily have to do anything differently. You would just have to do it better. That's why the blame isn't on one person.
What was the perimeter/barricades like?
Apr 20, 2013 10:39pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:40 PM
WebFire;1430745 wrote:I thought you weren't criticizing.

Please, I ask again, how would YOU have done it?
The Syracuse two-three zone or Jerry Tarkanian's amoeba.
Apr 20, 2013 10:40pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:40 PM
reclegend22;1430751 wrote:It wasn't even close to 24 hours? Don't be that guy and blow it up like he wasn't on the run in this small area for an entire day. He was. After hijacking a car at around 10 p.m. and then being surrounded by possibly two dozen armed police officers, the most wanted teenage terrorist in the world -- and his brother -- killed one of them and injured 15 others before fleeing by foot. He was discovered by a civilian at around 8 p.m. the next day. So it was approximately 22 hours, almost a fully day.
Which is NOT 2 days. Or almost 2 days.
Apr 20, 2013 10:40pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:41 PM
reclegend22;1430753 wrote:The Syracuse two-three zone or Jerry Tarkanian's amoeba.
Nah. Michigan got through that pretty easy. Although they did have a lot of weapons. :D
Apr 20, 2013 10:41pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:43 PM
WebFire;1430754 wrote:Which is NOT 2 days. Or almost 2 days.
Fair enough.
Apr 20, 2013 10:43pm
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gut

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Apr 20, 2013 10:44 PM
WebFire;1430752 wrote:What was the perimeter/barricades like?
I'd be curious to know. Fox showed the street, maybe there was a cross street somewhere, but they should have been able to block him in without too much trouble. Depends on how many units, the timing, and the coordination (which, if it could have been done better is probably where they fell apart).

Details just seem really sketchy.
Apr 20, 2013 10:44pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:45 PM
karen lotz;1430161 wrote:
So I kind of suspected last night when this pic was first posted, but apparently he is getting a tracheotomy in this pic

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-attack/index.html
The surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings suffered an injury to his throat and may not be able to talk, a federal official told CNN on Saturday, possibly hindering attempts by authorities to question him about a motive in the attack.
Apr 20, 2013 10:45pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:47 PM
LJ;1430758 wrote:So I kind of suspected last night when this pic was first posted, but apparently he is getting a tracheotomy in this pic

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-attack/index.html
Of course he did.
Apr 20, 2013 10:47pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:48 PM
reclegend22;1430751 wrote:It wasn't even close to 24 hours? Don't be that guy and play it down like he wasn't on the run in this small area for an entire day. He was. After hijacking a car at around 10 p.m. and then being surrounded by possibly two dozen armed police officers, the most wanted teenage terrorist in the world -- and his brother -- killed one of them and injured 15 others before fleeing by foot. He was discovered by a civilian at around 8 p.m. the next day. So it was approximately 22 hours, almost a full day.
WebFire;1430754 wrote:Which is NOT 2 days. Or almost 2 days.
This.

You said almost 2 days. It wasn't even a full 24 hours (which is what I meant to post the first time...I'll go ahead and blame the percocet for the "even close to" in my post).
Apr 20, 2013 10:48pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:50 PM
sherm03;1430760 wrote:...I'll go ahead and blame the percocet for the "even close to" in my post).
Hydrocodone. :D
Apr 20, 2013 10:50pm
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Apr 20, 2013 10:56 PM
WebFire;1430752 wrote:What was the perimeter/barricades like?
I have no idea. 8-10 miles from the Boston Marathon finish line. And established enough to kill 1 suspect and wound another. That's all I can tell you.

If they weren't able to get enough law enforcement on scene that's just as bad, though, in my opinion.
Apr 20, 2013 10:56pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:01 PM
Serious question: How does the most most wanted man in the world -- so, essentially, Osama Bin Laden -- steal a car, get surrounded by a couple dozen armed police officers, survive a shootout by killing one of them and injuring 15 others, and then manage to escape on foot? The most wanted man in the world. Sounds like a bit of a blunder to me.

As Mulva said, it's a really good thing that he ended being injured, because there easily could have been more deaths or bombs detonated in the almost full day that he was on the loose after toying with the police on the MIT campus.
Apr 20, 2013 11:01pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:03 PM
reclegend22;1430766 wrote:Serious question: How does the most most wanted man in the world -- so, essentially, Osama Bin Laden -- steal a car, get surrounded by a couple dozen armed police officers, survive a shootout by killing one of them and injuring 15 others, and then manage to escape on foot? The most wanted man in the world. Sounds like a bit of a blunder to me.

As Mulva said, it's a really good thing that he ended being injured, because there easily could have been more deaths or bombs detonated in the almost full day that he was on the loose after toying with the police on the MIT campus.
The 15 injured was for the entire incident, not the lone shootout.
Apr 20, 2013 11:03pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:05 PM
Mulva;1430764 wrote:I have no idea. 8-10 miles from the Boston Marathon finish line. And established enough to kill 1 suspect and wound another. That's all I can tell you.

If they weren't able to get enough law enforcement on scene that's just as bad, though, in my opinion.
So you have no idea what the perimeter and barricades were like, but think they should have been better?
Apr 20, 2013 11:05pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:07 PM
Apr 20, 2013 11:07pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:08 PM
reclegend22;1430766 wrote: As Mulva said, it's a really good thing that he ended being injured, because there easily could have been more deaths or bombs detonated in the almost full day that he was on the loose after toying with the police on the MIT campus.
Only thing I can find is a comment in the Washington Post from an officer saying "we didn't have enough people to establish a proper perimeter". That's after he got away from the shootout.

Had to be pretty chaotic to coordinate everything. Let's not forget you've got shots fired and a dead cop at MIT. Reports of as many as 12 cars initially on the shootout scene. I wonder if they formed a barrier for the shootout, and then in classic Blues Brothers style couldn't got out of their own way to pursue when he fled in the car (sounds like they did lose sight of the vehicle but found it shortly later - at which point they lacked resources to set-up a proper perimeter).
Apr 20, 2013 11:08pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:09 PM
WebFire;1430768 wrote:So you have no idea what the perimeter and barricades were like, but think they should have been better?
Terrorists set off bombs at major public event. Days later, terrorists engage in gunfight with law enforcement, 1 of 2 is killed, the other is wounded. 10,000 law enforcement officers on scene by the next day roll tanks through area and tell public to stay indoors.

Terrorist 2 of 2 is outside of 10,000 cop perimeter and discovered by citizen after law enforcement lifts indoor order because they didn't find him.

Yes, I think it should have been better.
Apr 20, 2013 11:09pm
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gut

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Apr 20, 2013 11:11 PM
WebFire;1430767 wrote:The 15 injured was for the entire incident, not the lone shootout.
Sounds like maybe 1-2 injured in the shootout - the RTA(?) cop taken to the hospital.

Maybe we'll find out more in the coming days when people start asking questions about what went wrong and what could have been done better. Post 9/11 I think maybe we expect the response to be be tighter (although on Monday it WAS very tight).
Apr 20, 2013 11:11pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:12 PM
Hiding inside that boat was actually pretty ingenious. It's an excellent place to seek shelter for a short period of time and then wait for night fall to move again. Unlike a shed or other building, no everyday person is going to stumble upon you in a covered boat. He definitely was skilled in the art of evasion and possessed a great survivalist mentality.
Apr 20, 2013 11:12pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:12 PM
Mulva;1430771 wrote:Terrorists set off bombs at major public event. Days later, terrorists engage in gunfight with law enforcement, 1 of 2 is killed, the other is wounded. 10,000 law enforcement officers on scene by the next day roll tanks through area and tell public to stay indoors.

Terrorist 2 of 2 is outside of 10,000 cop perimeter and discovered by citizen after law enforcement lifts indoor order because they didn't find him.

Yes, I think it should have been better.
I don't think he was ever in the perimeter.
Apr 20, 2013 11:12pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:14 PM
WebFire;1430774 wrote:I don't think he was ever in the perimeter.
... which makes me think something should have been done better. I have no idea what you're arguing.
Apr 20, 2013 11:14pm
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Apr 20, 2013 11:16 PM
Mulva;1430775 wrote:... which makes me think something should have been done better. I have no idea what you're arguing.
So you think the perimeter should have been bigger?
Apr 20, 2013 11:16pm