believer;1689836 wrote:No collapse - yet - but certainly no economic boom either under Barry's Rule.

6 straight years of Big Gubmint spending and we still have high unemployment (despite the "official" numbers coming from the Feds) and under-employment.

But keep sucking down the kool aid....

The facts of life do not matter...still.

“But what the BCA showed is that Washington can cut spending. And because of this law, that’s just what we’ve done. For the first time since the Korean War, government spending has declined for two years in a row. That’s the first time in 50 years.

^^^Mitch McConnell...the new Republican Majority Leader of the U.S. Senate.

600,000 Federal Employees have been fired.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/11/07/the-federal-government-now-employs-the-fewest-people-since-1966/

Not since July 1966 has the federal government’s workforce been so small. … But that’s only the raw numbers! As a share of the total workforce … data going back to 1939 would show no point where the federal government’s share of employment was so low.

We now have the fewest public employees in the federal government since 1966. Compare that to Bush who hired 1.5 million public teat-suckers for the federal government to search and seize your property. YOU should be happy. The guy you voted for Romney promised 6% unemployment in four years with his policies...we got there in half the time with Obama in charge and his Fed picks! Thanks Obama!

But you'll be voting for Jeb Bush in two years just in time to fuck it all up despite all of that!

gut;1689894 wrote:Obama - the great part-time jobs creator. And labor participation rate is still the lowest in nearly 40 years.

Truthfully, the Obamaconomy is the failed Bush fiscal and monetary policy on steroids. Some people understand this, others are kool-aid drinkers clueless about economics. And plus the Obamacare disaster (which essentially spent tens of billions to sign-up people for Medicare who weren't aware they qualified).

Now if you want to talk gas prices and their impact on Russia...Obama nut-huggers will give him all the credit, despite doing all he can to hike prices higher and favor alternative energy. Credit here really goes to Bush and "drill baby, drill" (and, perhaps, a Republican Senate that will finally pull the Keystone Pipeline from under Harry Reid's ass).

5% growth. Unemployment rate under Romney's target in half the time.

But oh that's right Gut's been saying the same thing for five years and only he knows economics whereas all of the investment banks on wall street, the federal reserve and the treasury don't know what he knows.

Also keep telling yourself Obummercare is a disaster lol. If the conservative states wouldn't have backed out of expanding medicaid it would be even more of a clear success than it is now. If Texas expands medicaid (and it's getting close) it will be even more solidified.

And yes, Obama's artful foreign policy with the likes of Saudi Arabia, using soft power to counter Putin's idiocy and Iran deserves credit for the positive oil supply shock. Way better than invading and bombing Iran like those Republicans you always vote for would prefer.

Now take some time to go through the thread and look at all of your doom and gloom that was wrong, wrong, wrong.

gut;1689894 wrote:Obama - the great part-time jobs creator. And labor participation rate is still the lowest in nearly 40 years.

Truthfully, the Obamaconomy is the failed Bush fiscal and monetary policy on steroids. Some people understand this, others are kool-aid drinkers clueless about economics. And plus the Obamacare disaster (which essentially spent tens of billions to sign-up people for Medicare who weren't aware they qualified).

Now if you want to talk gas prices and their impact on Russia...Obama nut-huggers will give him all the credit, despite doing all he can to hike prices higher and favor alternative energy. Credit here really goes to Bush and "drill baby, drill" (and, perhaps, a Republican Senate that will finally pull the Keystone Pipeline from under Harry Reid's ass).

Also, the lecturer about economics in chief again appears not to understand how the labor force participation rate is calculated. I remember you telling Jmog that baby boomers retiring would actually be a boon for the rate but this is wrong because they're still in the civilian non-institutional population which the rate is measured from.

Here is an explanation for you from the Bureau of Labor Statistics:

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_htgm.htm#nilf

Labor force measures are based on the civilian noninstitutional population 16 years old and over. Excluded are persons under 16 years of age, all persons confined to institutions such as nursing homes and prisons, and persons on active duty in the Armed Forces. As mentioned previously, the labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed. The remainder—those who have no job and are not looking for one—are counted as "not in the labor force." Many who are not in the labor force are going to school or are retired. Family responsibilities keep others out of the labor force.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-and-the-decline-in-the-labor-force-participation-rate-2012-2#ixzz3NEFlqzDJ

So, your argument about the labor-force participation rate is silly (and of course you would not care about that if Romney won in any event. Indeed you would be cheering 5% growth).


The Chicago FED blames more than half of the drop in the labor force participation rate to retiring baby boomers.

http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-and-the-decline-in-the-labor-force-participation-rate-2012-2

The Chicago Fed has weighed in with a paper on the topic where they argue that about half of the decline is due to baby boomers retiring.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/baby-boomers-and-the-decline-in-the-labor-force-participation-rate-2012-2#ixzz3NEG8IbKi

Again....Gut should love Obama and he would cheer Romney for the same results.

5% growth. Unemployment rate under Romney's goal in half the time. Deficit below the historical average. The fewest federal government employees since 1966. A reduction of free loaders without health insurance. The end of two wars that were a waste of over 1.5 trillion dollars (at least).

#ObamaFail.

believer;1689898 wrote:Profound and thought provoking feedback from a couple of OC's more astute pinheads.

Believer voted Romney and all he got was a communist who delivered results that he should love but can't bring himself to because he is a partisan conservative and is told by talk radio commercials that Obama is gonna come and take his food through an executive order.

For me, Obamacare has provided with a higher premium, higher family deductible, and took out the individual deductibles all together. Is that success?

Obamacare is a success??

Every small business guy/gal that I know are singing the blues about their increases in premiums or have taken steps to cut their losses. ( which was not in the interest of their employees). Personally, our office has a 70% higher premium and a lesser plan that what we had 3 years ago.

WebFire;1690114 wrote:For me, Obamacare has provided with a higher premium, higher family deductible, and took out the individual deductibles all together. Is that success?

Since the Affordable Care Act has gone into effect, as a general rule, annual increases in premiums have been better than prior to the passage of the affordable care act.



With that said we have to ask what was the goal of Obamacare: The main goal of Obamacare was to make sure that Cancer survivors can get health insurance because prior to obamacare, in our regulated capitalist system, private for-profit health insurers would not insure the health of people who had been sick like Cancer Survivors.

It was to correct a market failure. And, to do that and keep our private, for-profit health insurance industry...some people (mostly depending on what state you lived in and if they already had community rating) were going to see higher costs than they would if cancer survivors did not have access to the risk pool. Moreover, it became important to get young people and free loaders to insure themselves.

So yes, Obamacare is working.

HitsRus;1690150 wrote:Obamacare is a success??

Every small business guy/gal that I know are singing the blues about their increases in premiums or have taken steps to cut their losses. ( which was not in the interest of their employees). Personally, our office has a 70% higher premium and a lesser plan that what we had 3 years ago.

Your 70% increase in the premium is significantly higher than average for employee plans and plans in the individual marketplace. Perhaps you might consider looking for better managed competitors at Healthcare.gov

BoatShoes;1689976 wrote: But oh that's right Gut's been saying the same thing for five years and only he knows economics whereas all of the investment banks on wall street, the federal reserve and the treasury don't know what he knows.

Also keep telling yourself Obummercare is a disaster lol. If the conservative states wouldn't have backed out of expanding medicaid it would be even more of a clear success than it is now. If Texas expands medicaid (and it's getting close) it will be even more solidified.

And yes, Obama's artful foreign policy with the likes of Saudi Arabia, using soft power to counter Putin's idiocy and Iran deserves credit for the positive oil supply shock. Way better than invading and bombing Iran like those Republicans you always vote for would prefer.

Now take some time to go through the thread and look at all of your doom and gloom that was wrong, wrong, wrong.

LMAO. No

BoatShoes;1690257 wrote:Since the Affordable Care Act has gone into effect, as a general rule, annual increases in premiums have been better than prior to the passage of the affordable care act.
So yes, Obamacare is working.

You do realize Obamacare was enacted in 2010....and there's no change in premiums since then (supposedly).

I've yet to meet an individual or company with less than 30% increases since then. But, hey, the govt says it's working and the govt never lies.

Real world that everyday people and business have lived with over the past six years.
look around where that individual architect, independent excavator, those sub contactors, civil engineering companies and small to mid size developers? What happen to those independent truckers, small freight companies, small diesel shops, small retail shop and those start up business?
Starting in the end of 2009, beginning 2010 with the bottom falling and even now the roller coaster ride of the enconomy has driven many small and midsize companies to close. One of my business when from 12 employees to closing this year with my other soon to follow.
There is a real world of everyday businessness and individual survival, then there the government and media perception of misleading information. Thousand of thousands individual are off the unemployment records, other are working under the table to avoid the government and others have just given up.
There will be another Obama enconomy failure. Yes... the problem is when .. I predict beginning of the 2016 ...
Obamacare is a start up business and growth killer... The poor will be soon find out the pit falls of obamacare

i will begin my "earned" entitlement social security soon, along with my military retirement. Will I stop working or stop thinking of ways to create my personal wealth and or new business profits ... No

Yes --- obamacare has been nothing short of a complete nightmare and disaster. I have not talked to one single solitary person or business that has one good thing to say about it. And yes, it is a job killer, not to mention the terribly negative effects it is wreaking on health care in general and health care premiums. It is categorically, an EPIC FAIL.

We have had 6 years of the worst growth rates ever, and the worst job creation rates ever, especially 'coming out of a recession' ........all this depsite obama increasing the national debt by 80%, another $8 trillion. Why is that? Because of his all-out assault on the private sector and the producers in this country. Will he ever stop hating on us? Hell no.

I was a big opponent of Obama but he has done a pretty good job actually. I understand many republicans will never say this but hiring is way up over what it was 4 years ago

Well, I think the upturn in the economy has been the increase in energy output. That is funny as if you would have listened to the R's, you would think the President would never ever allow drilling and fracking.He has, it goes on and has dramatically changed the energy market, and thus the rest of the U.S. economy.

Add to that other sectors are adapting and improving. Wall Street is essentially back after it has successfully shredded most of the stops put in place after the 2008 collapse.
But, I do think the Small Businesses are still left out in the cold. The increasing health care costs cannot be understated. Also, wages for workers outside of CEOs has remained flat.

The economy is not collapsing, it is stronger now than in 2012, but remains I would say still unstable. A decrease in energy production or another shock could easily send us back to say 2009 levels.

That said, honestly, it would not have mattered if Obama or Romney were in the White House. Both were essentially running the same macro economic policies anyways. The differences were on the edges.

ptown_trojans_1;1690524 wrote:Well, I think the upturn in the economy has been the increase in energy output. That is funny as if you would have listened to the R's, you would think the President would never ever allow drilling and fracking.He has, it goes on and has dramatically changed the energy market, and thus the rest of the U.S. economy.

If he had complete control over private lands he would have banned it, just like his radical friends in places like NY state. Where he has been able to stymie drilling and exploration, he has done so. He has interjected the state department (along with EPA) in stopping the Keystone pipeline (despite knowing full well that there are already millions of miles of pipeline in this country that are operating completely safely year after year providing the nation and the economy with the energy it needs to survive). Fracking is our energy salvation, but his allies are doing everything they can to stop it. If Ohio did not have a strong republican governor and administration, I am sure they would have done what the radical democrats in NY have done, ban it.

The economic renaissance is due to private investment in private technology and innovation, and it is resulting in tremendous supply and lower costs for Americans; and all of it is occurring despite obama and the radical left, not because of him. Please get that straight.

QuakerOats;1690612 wrote:If he had complete control over private lands he would have banned it, just like his radical friends in places like NY state. Where he has been able to stymie drilling and exploration, he has done so. He has interjected the state department (along with EPA) in stopping the Keystone pipeline (despite knowing full well that there are already millions of miles of pipeline in this country that are operating completely safely year after year providing the nation and the economy with the energy it needs to survive). Fracking is our energy salvation, but his allies are doing everything they can to stop it. If Ohio did not have a strong republican governor and administration, I am sure they would have done what the radical democrats in NY have done, ban it.

The economic renaissance is due to private investment in private technology and innovation, and it is resulting in tremendous supply and lower costs for Americans; and all of it is occurring despite obama and the radical left, not because of him. Please get that straight.

Not saying it was due to him at all. Just saying the administration has not put as much as stopping to it as people would think.
And, I do think there is an unknown health and environmental risk associated with drilling and fracking.
But, somewhat rightly, that gets pushed aside due to economic benefits.

We would rather pay lower gas prices and suffer the long term health and environmental impacts.

Exploring, drilling and fracking here is far more safe and environmentally friendly, for the globe, than not doing so, because not doing so would ultimately mean more energy would have to be supplied in non-environmentally friendly countries like China, with the dreaded coal resource to boot. Thus, shutting down US production is the equivalent of exporting pollution to the world.

then of course we have the 50 year history of fracking over 2 million wells without incident. Perhaps one of the safest industrial technologies around.

ptown_trojans_1;1690618 wrote:We would rather pay lower gas prices and suffer the long term health and environmental impacts.

"Suffer"? Really? C'mon....

This is not as much about lower gas prices as it is (A) putting Americans back to work, (B) getting a stagnant economy turned around, and (C) lessening our dependence on oil supplies from the Islamofascists.

Does energy production have an environmental impact? Absolutely. Always has and always will no matter where in the world it's extracted. But I'm not ready yet to buy-in to the doom & gloom song and dance routine being sung by the tree huggers.

Fact is even the most ardent progressives need that energy if we all want to maintain our current cushy modern lifestyles. I'm convinced it can be done with a reasonable level of environmental responsibility until cleaner and economically viable alternative sources of energy are developed.

The leftists need to stop tossing asinine road blocks in the way of common sense energy policies.

QuakerOats;1690612 wrote:If he had complete control over private lands he would have banned it, just like his radical friends in places like NY state. Where he has been able to stymie drilling and exploration, he has done so. He has interjected the state department (along with EPA) in stopping the Keystone pipeline (despite knowing full well that there are already millions of miles of pipeline in this country that are operating completely safely year after year providing the nation and the economy with the energy it needs to survive). Fracking is our energy salvation, but his allies are doing everything they can to stop it. If Ohio did not have a strong republican governor and administration, I am sure they would have done what the radical democrats in NY have done, ban it.

The economic renaissance is due to private investment in private technology and innovation, and it is resulting in tremendous supply and lower costs for Americans; and all of it is occurring despite obama and the radical left, not because of him. Please get that straight.

Do you enjoy being ignorant? President Obama has fully encouraged fracking, hell he even made it so companies do not have to disclose the chemicals used after drilling

QuakerOats;1690381 wrote:Yes --- obamacare has been nothing short of a complete nightmare and disaster. I have not talked to one single solitary person or business that has one good thing to say about it. And yes, it is a job killer, not to mention the terribly negative effects it is wreaking on health care in general and health care premiums. It is categorically, an EPIC FAIL.

We have had 6 years of the worst growth rates ever, and the worst job creation rates ever, especially 'coming out of a recession' ........all this depsite obama increasing the national debt by 80%, another $8 trillion. Why is that? Because of his all-out assault on the private sector and the producers in this country. Will he ever stop hating on us? Hell no.

Investor’s Business Daily (1/2) argued in an editorial that “Barack Obama is without presidential peer” in crafting “costly regulations,” adding: “We believe it’s a big reason why the economic recovery from the financial crisis has been the worst ever.” The editorial cited a NAM study issued in September that estimated the cost of regulations to American businesses, workers, and consumers at $2 trillion annually, or about $20,000 per employee, and said 37,000 federal regulations had been added in the past decade. “Our regulatory system produces unnecessarily costly rules, duplicative mandates, impediments to innovation and barriers to our international competitiveness,” NAM President and CEO Jay Timmons was quoted as saying by IBD, which concluded its editorial: “We can only hope the new Congress is listening.”

ptown_trojans_1;1690618 wrote:Not saying it was due to him at all. Just saying the administration has not put as much as stopping to it as people would think.
And, I do think there is an unknown health and environmental risk associated with drilling and fracking.
But, somewhat rightly, that gets pushed aside due to economic benefits.

We would rather pay lower gas prices and suffer the long term health and environmental impacts.

I would rather pay less for a incandescent light bulb than mercury in our long term health issue and enviroment impacts from CFL .... but Light Matters ....