And they say Dems aren't trying to take guns away

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gut

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15,058 posts
Nov 16, 2012 3:24 PM
2kool4skool;1321669 wrote:I'm on board. But if we're going to take away their right to vote, they certainly shouldn't have the automatic right to carry a gun on their landlord's property either.
I'm not sure I follow how one would have anything to do with the other.
Nov 16, 2012 3:24pm
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queencitybuckeye

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7,117 posts
Nov 16, 2012 3:25 PM
WebFire;1321678 wrote:All you have to do is post it at your driveway, and I cannot legally carry my gun onto your property. So, you're covered.
Why should I have to do that, as opposed to you needing to seek my permission?
Nov 16, 2012 3:25pm
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gut

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Nov 16, 2012 3:26 PM
2kool4skool;1321677 wrote:These are people who are so awkward they feel the need to carry a gun everywhere, you seriously think they have the social courage to go talk to strangers?
Don't thugs do this every day when they stick someone up and demand their wallet? Thugs are socially awkward?
Nov 16, 2012 3:26pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:26 PM
queencitybuckeye;1321684 wrote:Why should I have to do that, as opposed to you needing to seek my permission?
Oh, I don't know. Maybe because the right to bear arms is in the Constitution?
Nov 16, 2012 3:26pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:28 PM
I'll tell you want. Post the statistics for gun crimes committed in Ohio by CHL holders, and then let me know why you would be so worried. The only awkward ones are the ones that are afraid of guns. Just because you can't handle them, doesn't mean no one else should be able to.
Nov 16, 2012 3:28pm
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queencitybuckeye

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Nov 16, 2012 3:32 PM
WebFire;1321687 wrote:Oh, I don't know. Maybe because the right to bear arms is in the Constitution?
The Constitution of the United States does not give you the right to carry a gun onto my property against my wishes. You've already acknowledge that in your post about me posting a sign. This debate is over who should be the party required to grant or deny permission. I doubt that there's a constitutional issue at play.
Nov 16, 2012 3:32pm
Iliketurtles's avatar

Iliketurtles

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8,191 posts
Nov 16, 2012 3:32 PM
WebFire;1321687 wrote:Oh, I don't know. Maybe because the right to bear arms is in the Constitution?
How is having you to needing to ask permission to take your gun on another person's property effecting your right to own a gun?</SPAN>
Nov 16, 2012 3:32pm
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queencitybuckeye

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7,117 posts
Nov 16, 2012 3:34 PM
WebFire;1321692 wrote:I'll tell you want. Post the statistics for gun crimes committed in Ohio by CHL holders, and then let me know why you would be so worried. The only awkward ones are the ones that are afraid of guns. Just because you can't handle them, doesn't mean no one else should be able to.
You're more than welcome to carry an arsenal AFAIC, I don't even particularly care if you carry it onto my property. Just understand you have no right to do so. None.
Nov 16, 2012 3:34pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:34 PM
Iliketurtles;1321699 wrote:How is having you to needing to ask permission to take your gun on another person's property effecting your right to own a gun?
The right isn't just to own a gun, it's to bear arms. Telling me I have to leave it at home isn't bearing arms.
Nov 16, 2012 3:34pm
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queencitybuckeye

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Nov 16, 2012 3:35 PM
WebFire;1321704 wrote:The right isn't just to own a gun, it's to bear arms. Telling me I have to leave it at home isn't bearing arms.
Pretty big strawman you have there.
Nov 16, 2012 3:35pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:35 PM
queencitybuckeye;1321698 wrote:The Constitution of the United States does not give you the right to carry a gun onto my property against my wishes. You've already acknowledge that in your post about me posting a sign. This debate is over who should be the party required to grant or deny permission. I doubt that there's a constitutional issue at play.
The quit talking about rights if the Constitution isn't at play. You are right, I cannot carry on to your property against your wishes...but you need to post that so carriers know. And that...is the law.
Nov 16, 2012 3:35pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:36 PM
queencitybuckeye;1321707 wrote:Pretty big strawman you have there.
Is it?
Nov 16, 2012 3:36pm
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queencitybuckeye

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Nov 16, 2012 3:38 PM
WebFire;1321708 wrote:The quit talking about rights if the Constitution isn't at play. You are right, I cannot carry on to your property against your wishes...but you need to post that so carriers know. And that...is the law.
Indeed it is, and is likely to stay that way, in spite of legitimate opinion that the opposite way makes more sense.
Nov 16, 2012 3:38pm
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queencitybuckeye

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Nov 16, 2012 3:39 PM
WebFire;1321709 wrote:Is it?
It is. No one said you have to leave your weapon at home.
Nov 16, 2012 3:39pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:43 PM
queencitybuckeye;1321711 wrote:Indeed it is, and is likely to stay that way, in spite of legitimate opinion that the opposite way make more sense.
Funny thing is, when I read this legislation and posted here, private citizen property never even crossed my mind. Nor am I even worried about it. Though, it would be weird to disarm every time I stopped at someone's house when I'm out and about. Not like I'm going commit a crime against them because the law allows me to carry. Do I stop the car and disarm before I enter the driveway? Or once I pull in and stop? Are you ok with the gun in the car, or should I have to ask permission for that as well.

Having it your way presents a lot of logistical problems, making it impractical to carry. And we haven't even discusses "public" private party. This is exactly want these lawmakers are trying to do.
Nov 16, 2012 3:43pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:44 PM
queencitybuckeye;1321713 wrote:It is. No one said you have to leave your weapon at home.
Pretty much would. It would be impractical.
Nov 16, 2012 3:44pm
G

gut

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Nov 16, 2012 3:45 PM
Yeah, it's probably a really bad idea to force people to leave their gun in the car.
Nov 16, 2012 3:45pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 3:52 PM
I am wondering too. I have a license from the State of Ohio to drive a motor vehicle. Must I have your permission to drive on your property?
Nov 16, 2012 3:52pm
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queencitybuckeye

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Nov 16, 2012 4:01 PM
WebFire;1321720 wrote:I am wondering too. I have a license from the State of Ohio to drive a motor vehicle. Must I have your permission to drive on your property?
No, as that's not how the law stands. Could the law be changed to say that? Sure it could. It would be a practical nightmare, but yes.

OTOH, if I don't post "no hunting" signs on my property, does that mean I'm giving tacit permission to hunt? It does not, as that's not how the law reads.

There's no requirement that the law be consistent. Does it really make sense to require seat belts but not motorcycle helmets?
Nov 16, 2012 4:01pm
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WebFire

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Nov 16, 2012 4:10 PM
queencitybuckeye;1321724 wrote:No, as that's not how the law stands. Could the law be changed to say that? Sure it could. It would be a practical nightmare, but yes.

OTOH, if I don't post "no hunting" signs on my property, does that mean I'm giving tacit permission to hunt? It does not, as that's not how the law reads.

There's no requirement that the law be consistent. Does it really make sense to require seat belts but not motorcycle helmets?
I understand laws won't be consistent. It was more of a question to relate to another situation. What is the difference between driving and CHL in this case? One you are afraid of (because of your own insecurity) and one you are not.

As for the hunter, it's not a good comparison because hunting requires a premeditated effort to carry out. CHL is something you do like wearing your shoes. You don't carry "hunting" around with you.
Nov 16, 2012 4:10pm
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Hb31187

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Nov 16, 2012 4:30 PM
I find it incredibly stupid that I would have to post a sign clearly stating I dont want someone with a CCL to bring a gun onto my property without notice. Instead not having them alert me that theyre bringing a potentially deadly weapon onto my property
Nov 16, 2012 4:30pm
Q

queencitybuckeye

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Nov 16, 2012 4:35 PM
WebFire;1321729 wrote:I understand laws won't be consistent. It was more of a question to relate to another situation. What is the difference between driving and CHL in this case? One you are afraid of (because of your own insecurity) and one you are not.
Your mind-reading ability seems to be on the blink. Your assumption of my argument being based on fear is off the mark. It's similar to the old saw about people not wanting the cops to barge into their house having to mean that they have something to hide. As to my personality flaws, I have many, but insecurity is not among them IMO.

As for the hunter, it's not a good comparison because hunting requires a premeditated effort to carry out. CHL is something you do like wearing your shoes. You don't carry "hunting" around with you.
It's not that far off, as you make a conscious (I hope) decision of whether to carry a weapon every single time you leave your home.
Nov 16, 2012 4:35pm
tk421's avatar

tk421

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Nov 16, 2012 4:36 PM
No chance that this passes.
Nov 16, 2012 4:36pm
Devils Advocate's avatar

Devils Advocate

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Nov 16, 2012 4:57 PM
tk421;1321748 wrote:No chance that this passes.
No chance BHO gets a 2nd term either...
Nov 16, 2012 4:57pm
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tk421

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Nov 16, 2012 5:45 PM
Republicans control Ohio legislature, no way they ever pass something like this.
Nov 16, 2012 5:45pm