Manhattan Buckeye;1324575 wrote:This is beyond belief. So if a kid threatens my Dad at detention hall and management does nothing it is a school (and thus Union) matter because it happens on school property, but if he does so 10 feet away from the school's parking lot (and thus outside of school property) it isn't?

Glad to see you finally get it. They aren't your personal security guard.

Manhattan Buckeye;1324530 wrote:in return he got his yearly newsletter telling him who to vote for and what the union's platform was (why the NEA has a stance on abortion rights is beyond me, what does that have to do with education?).

Shouldn't a business whose customers are children be zealously pro-life?

GoChiefs;1324576 wrote:Glad to see you finally get it. They aren't your personal security guard.

No one expected an NEA rep to come in like a S.W.A.T. team... what was expected was some sort of discipline from management which didn't happen - hence the grievance. Glad I wasted 30 minutes responding to this.

"Shouldn't a business whose customers are children be zealously pro-life?"

I don't know - I don't know why the NEA has a stance on AIDS relief in Africa as they did back in the day. At least on their website they keep it to education funded related matters - note I said education funded, not necessarily education.

Manhattan Buckeye;1324579 wrote:what was expected was some sort of discipline from management which didn't happen -

EXACTLY! And that's a management decision. The Union's job is to represent you and protect you if you are mistreated by the company AT THE WORKPLACE. They are not going to step in and do anything about an incident that occured outside the workplace. How hard is that to understand? You go ask anyone that represents any Union if their Union would do anything in that situation, and they will tell you no. To think that the Union would step in on a matter like that is beyond ridiculous.

GoChiefs;1324581 wrote:EXACTLY! And that's a management decision. The Union's job is to represent you and protect you if you are mistreated by the company AT THE WORKPLACE. They are not going to step in and do anything about an incident that occured outside the workplace. How hard is that to understand? You go ask anyone that represents any Union if their Union would do anything in that situation, and they will tell you no. To think that the Union would step in on a matter like that is beyond ridiculous.

Are you doubling down on being wrong? If I'm sexually harassed by my manager at Wal-Mart after work and I go into HR the next day and complain - they do nothing and I go to my Union they are going to tell me it is out of their hands because it happened off-site? What does the Union do exactly then?

If my supervisor tells me by the water cooler that if I don't have sex with her tonight I'll lose my job - that is sexual harassment.

If my supervisor sees me at Wal-Mart and tells me if I don't have sex with her tonight I'll lose my job - that is sexual harassment.

The proximity of the harassment to the physical location is irrelevant. What is relevant is if the employer knows it is happening and doesn't make some sort of action to prevent it from continuing. Hell, most of the harassment cases at my old firm involved conversations in the leased building's elevator - that wasn't part of the workplace, it was still harassment (The company settled in all cases)

Back to the point of the thread:

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/twinkies-may-buyer-hostess-ceo-says-114447661--abc-news-deals.html

This will likely happen IMO but it will be nasty. I'm no bankruptcy expert but I've dealt with Weil on a few deals and the buyers have all the leverage - the Twinkie will be saved but others contracted with Hostess will likely get the proverbial "rear admiral." The buyer can all the shots that the bankruptcy judge allows them to call.

I really hope GoChiefs is being intentionally obtuse.

Another link (has nothing to do with Ohio, but about the inevitable failure of pension funds):

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/11/18/oregon-catches-pension-bug/

This pension fund forecast a continual rate of 8% increase Y-t-Y according the article, that has never been a viable forecast. To the extent the Hostess employees fund had an equally "pollyannish" expectation, it is no surprise that they found themselves in an insolvent hole.

superman;1324594 wrote:I really hope GoChiefs is being intentionally obtuse.

Man, after reading this thread, I have no idea how I'm getting through life without one.

I'm back Manhattan:thumbup:!!! ...#1, So you are being sexually harrased at Wal-Mart...Don't like it, call the police and make a report. . #2, Your water cooler and Wal-Mart themes are two different arguements! (Off-site...Onsite). #3, Your "old firm" settled because it was on work premisis (and they have seen what the unions did to protect their members)i.e. class action law suits, sexual harrassment suits, intimidation..........AND WON!

If you're being harrassed (physically, sexually, bullied or whatever) at your WORK PLACE , your UNION (and even the police) will be the first ones correcting what went wrong. Outside of the work place, the law will take care of it. (by the way, police are union too... just to remind you again).

Manhattan Buckeye;1324618 wrote: This pension fund forecast a continual rate of 8% increase Y-t-Y according the article, that has never been a viable forecast. To the extent the Hostess employees fund had an equally "pollyannish" expectation, it is no surprise that they found themselves in an insolvent hole.

8-9% was a common rate used in many pension assumptions. I believe it was derived from the fact the equity markets had historically averaged 9-10% returns, at least up until about 2000. Not sure what the IRR has been if you take into account compounding.

So I wouldn't call it that bad of an assumption. But inflation has also come down so by rights those growth assumptions need to be normalized.

hang_loose;1324526 wrote:You're a business owner, right? (just curious). Now be honest, unions are there for the BENEFIT of the workers! Teamsters, Iron workers, UAW, IBEW,AFL-CIO and even the NEA(?). Plus a great deal of other people make a decent living because of unions. Policemen, Firemen, Air-transport, Construction, Highway workers and on and on and on.

In a greivence between a union and a company, there is two sides to every story! I think you're hearing only one side and you're blaming all unions based on your two family members experience with the NEA.

Nobody ever said life is fair but unions try to make the job place fair.

What union are you apart of?

Retired TEAMSTER sleeper......And you???

hang_loose;1326761 wrote:Retired TEAMSTER sleeper......And you???

Well thank god you are retired because your job would be next. Unions are dying all over the country; the quicker the better.

Thanks BOSS!!! And again,You???

hang_loose;1327105 wrote:Thanks BOSS!!! And again,You???

I would rather swallow a bottle of pain pills than ever work for a union.

hang_loose;1325656 wrote:I'm back Manhattan:thumbup:!!! ...#1, So you are being sexually harrased at Wal-Mart...Don't like it, call the police and make a report. . #2, Your water cooler and Wal-Mart themes are two different arguements! (Off-site...Onsite). #3, Your "old firm" settled because it was on work premisis (and they have seen what the unions did to protect their members)i.e. class action law suits, sexual harrassment suits, intimidation..........AND WON!

If you're being harrassed (physically, sexually, bullied or whatever) at your WORK PLACE , your UNION (and even the police) will be the first ones correcting what went wrong. Outside of the work place, the law will take care of it. (by the way, police are union too... just to remind you again).

Yeah, you're back and not in a good way. Hitting the bottle again? Dictionary guy...it helps with spelling.

Take those pain pills sleeper...It would make us all feel a lot better. Now, where do you work at again???

Nice intellegent reply Manhattan! Apparently you must have talked with your dad about unions and he told you the truth...... Gave up on attacking unions and now you want to attack my bottle of Mt.Dew (made by union workers also). GREAT COME-BACK!!!

Thanks for the laugh you two!!! We win and rest our case!

In which Kangaroo court? Yeah, the U.S. economy is rolling, unions are doing great. People under 30 are doing great. We're in a complete mess right now.

I personally hate unions myself. Anyone who doesn't think the car company's should have been allowed to go bankrupt, then drop the union contracts and pension, is absurd. Why do you think the other car companies and Boeing are building all their plants in the south? It hurts business ventures up here by having a union. Also, when I did commercial roofing for 2 summers, the union workers my boss was forced to hire (gov funds maybe?) were easily the worst. Took more breaks, refused to work harder or longer, etc.

Another great example just happened 2 months ago at my brothers school, a teacher threw a tennis ball and hit a kid in the face. The kid told on him and the teacher got 6 weeks suspension while whoever investigated. The joke is, he was paid all 6 weeks, 2 weeks in they old the school it wouldn't be prosecuted, and the kids had a sub and did nothing, thus hurting their education. Complete joke.

http://www.cantonrep.com/newsnow/x1922372929/GM-to-close-Lordstown-plant-a-week-early

yeah corporations are really struggling

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/30/15570307-corporate-profits-reach-all-time-high?lite

Gblock;1336095 wrote:yeah corporations are really struggling

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/30/15570307-corporate-profits-reach-all-time-high?lite

That means we should tax more of them! Can't have them earning that much money! :rolleyes:

Gblock;1336095 wrote:yeah corporations are really struggling

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2012/11/30/15570307-corporate-profits-reach-all-time-high?lite

CANT BELEIVE WE REELECTED OBAMA. HE'S WHATS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY