wcalfan;1355118 wrote:I dig...:thumbup: (the icon is in honor of my favorite basher...Hunter86)

Gloves are off dude, bring it on !

Just wondering why you seem so obsessed with a basketball team record from 30 years ago when this forum is about football ?

Even if you think one of the "fence boys" was part of that, was it not the coaching at that time that contributed to the record losses ? Or are you totally blaming that season on the parenting & lack of talent as well ?

Or were those slacker kids back then playing pac man so the coaching was not part of the reason for their poor performance ?

If the fence guy was involved with the poor record, wouldn't he as a caring & responsible parent want better for his son/daughter than he had to endure ?

Seems like human Nature to want the best for your kids, so who better than a dad from the vintage 80's to critique the current FB program so his kids don't have to go thru the same win less season that happened back then.

Or were you involved with coaching that team as well ? (Since "Z" can do no wrong)

Why is it that some of the current student athletes that play both football & several other sports excel in the other sports, but not in the football program ?

Hunter86;1355403 wrote:Gloves are off dude, bring it on !

Just wondering why you seem so obsessed with a basketball team record from 30 years ago when this forum is about football ?

Even if you think one of the "fence boys" was part of that, was it not the coaching at that time that contributed to the record losses ? Or are you totally blaming that season on the parenting & lack of talent as well ?

Or were those slacker kids back then playing pac man so the coaching was not part of the reason for their poor performance ?

If the fence guy was involved with the poor record, wouldn't he as a caring & responsible parent want better for his son/daughter than he had to endure ?

Seems like human Nature to want the best for your kids, so who better than a dad from the vintage 80's to critique the current FB program so his kids don't have to go thru the same win less season that happened back then.

Or were you involved with coaching that team as well ? (Since "Z" can do no wrong)

Why is it that some of the current student athletes that play both football & several other sports excel in the other sports, but not in the football program ?

"Dude"....I am not obsessed with the team at all, just curious as to why a member of that team is one of the biggest bashers of Coach Z?!?!?!? Where is his credibility when he was on the only other "O fer" team in school history?!?!?!? I am guessing he will place ALL of the blame on his coach that year. Just a wild hunch here....

Here is the funny thing "dude"....He is NOT a dad and he does NOT have a son/daughter or even a family member (that I know of) in the program. If he truly wants what is best for kids, even if it isn't one of his own, then he would be as supportive as possible for the current kids on the team.

Trust me, I am not saying that coaching doesn't play a big part but again...you have to have talent to win games. Especially at the high school level but you can't compare one sport to the next. There are so many different dynamics that go into each sport and MAYBE coaching is a part of that but it isn't the sole blame.

Listen...Coach Z has had 2 losing seasons in 7-8 years but has had some very good years as well. 0-10 is not good, I understand that but let's not get crazy here. I have confidence in Coach Z that he will turn this thing around but we need to be patient. Next year we will have ONE class at the high school that has had a winning record as a football team...ONE CLASS. The other classes have consistently lost at every level, so I am telling you it won't be EASY. Golden Bear fans need to stick together and be a TEAM and things will only get better.

jeeeeeeezzzzzzzzz!!!!!!! I knew his head was gonna come clean off his shoulders! beast..... be a little thicked skinned here. first its culture and society (thought I forgot that one?) then its poor athletic ability and spoiled kids, since I have heard jus how bad the parenting skills are in the southeast local, coach who hates his kids and a coaching staff of baboons, this is bad, bad, bad, bad, We have really pissed off the football godz for some reason, I think he can coach.........but I dont know what it will take to help this. patience... patience... patience... Maybe we could sacrifice the goldenbear to the football godz...(poor humor)

hey fan..... went to orr bball forum. Issues over there goes alittle deeper then just fball or bball. Alot of unhappy people over there. Not just school district, everyday people who have been there their whole lives not happy with ORRVILLE period. think its a sign of what can come to pass in southeast? I have alot family their and some of them have moved their kids out of the district hmmmmmmmm

Can anyone out there tell what a leader is, not because your titled but a leader?

eyes r burning;1357043 wrote:Can anyone out there tell what a leader is, not because your titled but a leader?

ARE THE ASST. COACH'S WORKING ON THE FB program ? Seems the head coach is more concerned with holding the AD's hand, which he really dosent need. Can we get this program back to where it has always been with a coach who went 0-10 an is really not concerned with it?

eyes r burning;1364900 wrote:ARE THE ASST. COACH'S WORKING ON THE FB program ? Seems the head coach is more concerned with holding the AD's hand, which he really dosent need. Can we get this program back to where it has always been with a coach who went 0-10 an is really not concerned with it?

No need to reply Wclfan, WE GET IT!

eyes r burning;1364910 wrote:No need to reply Wclfan, WE GET IT!

Just another thought, O it's not worth saying. Please just work on THE program!!!!

eyes r burning;1364900 wrote:ARE THE ASST. COACH'S WORKING ON THE FB program ? Seems the head coach is more concerned with holding the AD's hand, which he really dosent need. Can we get this program back to where it has always been with a coach who went 0-10 an is really not concerned with it?

What are you trying to say here?!?!?!?!? You make no sense! The reason Z helps out with the bball program is because he likes working with kids. Do you not see that?!?!?!?

You do understand that they are currently working on their off-season lifting just like EVERY other school in the area. The coaching staff has met NUMEROUS times since the season ended, just like they do EVERY other year. Like I have told you many times on here...we need to have patience. Every one thinks that we should hire in some workout guru's and follow the "Norwayne plan". Again, do we have any players that even come close to looking like Norwayne players?!?!?! I was at the bball game this past Friday @ Norwayne and again we looked like a junior high team compared to them...WAIT let me guess, it was the coach's fault we lost?!?!?!? Face it....this is just the way it is right now BUT that won't stop us from working hard.

wcalfan;1364925 wrote:What are you trying to say here?!?!?!?!? You make no sense! The reason Z helps out with the bball program is because he likes working with kids. Do you not see that?!?!?!?

You do understand that they are currently working on their off-season lifting just like EVERY other school in the area. The coaching staff has met NUMEROUS times since the season ended, just like they do EVERY other year. Like I have told you many times on here...we need to have patience. Every one thinks that we should hire in some workout guru's and follow the "Norwayne plan". Again, do we have any players that even come close to looking like Norwayne players?!?!?! I was at the bball game this past Friday @ Norwayne and again we looked like a junior high team compared to them...WAIT let me guess, it was the coach's fault we lost?!?!?!? Face it....this is just the way it is right now BUT that won't stop us from working hard.

No, the reason we lost is we didn't show up until the 2nd quarter.

After that the game was pretty much dead even.

We just needed another quarter !

The game was won at the foul line (theirs).

That was a winnable game for the bears if they would have come to play !

wcalfan;1364925 wrote:What are you trying to say here?!?!?!?!? You make no sense! The reason Z helps out with the bball program is because he likes working with kids. Do you not see that?!?!?!?

You do understand that they are currently working on their off-season lifting just like EVERY other school in the area. The coaching staff has met NUMEROUS times since the season ended, just like they do EVERY other year. Like I have told you many times on here...we need to have patience. Every one thinks that we should hire in some workout guru's and follow the "Norwayne plan". Again, do we have any players that even come close to looking like Norwayne players?!?!?! I was at the bball game this past Friday @ Norwayne and again we looked like a junior high team compared to them...WAIT let me guess, it was the coach's fault we lost?!?!?!? Face it....this is just the way it is right now BUT that won't stop us from working hard.

So your saying Southeast Local high school teams are like junior high teams compared to the other schools in the league, WOW you are out there man. With people like you in the school building up the boys it's no wonder the football is in the shape it is. You sound like a great leader!

eyes r burning;1365780 wrote:So your saying Southeast Local high school teams are like junior high teams compared to the other schools in the league, WOW you are out there man. With people like you in the school building up the boys it's no wonder the football is in the shape it is. You sound like a great leader!

Are you serious here?!?!?!? What are you...like 12 years old? I am now comparing YOU to a junior high kid. What's next...you go tell the teacher on me?

Yes....I am saying that if you line up our boys to the Norwayne boys...there is a difference. I am not being rude or mean, it is just a FACT.

And AGAIN...nice try with thinking I work for the school. You have no clue and it is starting to get to you...

wcalfan;1364925 wrote:What are you trying to say here?!?!?!?!? You make no sense! The reason Z helps out with the bball program is because he likes working with kids. Do you not see that?!?!?!?

You do understand that they are currently working on their off-season lifting just like EVERY other school in the area. The coaching staff has met NUMEROUS times since the season ended, just like they do EVERY other year. Like I have told you many times on here...we need to have patience. Every one thinks that we should hire in some workout guru's and follow the "Norwayne plan". Again, do we have any players that even come close to looking like Norwayne players?!?!?! I was at the bball game this past Friday @ Norwayne and again we looked like a junior high team compared to them...WAIT let me guess, it was the coach's fault we lost?!?!?!? Face it....this is just the way it is right now BUT that won't stop us from working hard.

Read he last sentence,(But that won't stop US from working hard), sure sounds like your on the staff, you wrote that not me. An yes you are getting to . It's amazing we have a person on staff that thinks like this!

eyes r burning;1365867 wrote:Read he last sentence,(But that won't stop US from working hard), sure sounds like your on the staff, you wrote that not me. An yes you are getting to . It's amazing we have a person on staff that thinks like this!

Still taking the junior high kid approach here aren't you? "You said this, which means this and you said that, which means that!"....."Take that!".

When I said "us" I meant the school and community as a whole. Can you not see that? I really need to stop talking to you because you are making me dumber!

You know what is amazing? We have fans out there like you that just reach and grasp at every little thing trying to find faults in our coaches. Very sad! (for my buddy....you know who...)

wcalfan;1365917 wrote:Still taking the junior high kid approach here aren't you? "You said this, which means this and you said that, which means that!"....."Take that!".

When I said "us" I meant the school and community as a whole. Can you not see that? I really need to stop talking to you because you are making me dumber!

You know what is amazing? We have fans out there like you that just reach and grasp at every little thing trying to find faults in our coaches. Very sad! (for my buddy....you know who...)

Don't really follow the bb team, but I do read the paper and hear people say they are a pretty good team, so with that being said this Waynedale high school( or in your words a junior high team) was on a 7 game win streak, MY O MY there must be a lot of really bad High school teams out there that they can't beat junior high team, as you refer to the athletes in this district. Again just commenting on your comments, if you don't want me to comment on them don't post them.
Keep walking the halls telling the boys you are behind them, then get on here an talk out of the other side of your mouth! It's about respect an the kids can read you from a mile away. Good Day my friend.

eyes r burning;1365929 wrote:Don't really follow the bb team, but I do read the paper and hear people say they are a pretty good team, so with that being said this Waynedale high school( or in your words a junior high team) was on a 7 game win streak, MY O MY there must be a lot of really bad High school teams out there that they can't beat junior high team, as you refer to the athletes in this district. Again just commenting on your comments, if you don't want me to comment on them don't post them.
Keep walking the halls telling the boys you are behind them, then get on here an talk out of the other side of your mouth! It's about respect an the kids can read you from a mile away. Good Day my friend.

Did I EVER say our team's talent is the caliber of a junior high team? Again, this is NOT junior high anymore, put on your big boy pants and quit putting words in people mouths. I just said the SIZE of our kids compared to most schools isn't even close. That is a FACT. "We" will deal with it and it will just make "us" work harder. But.... SIZE does matter...

Don't call me friend. I want no association with a person who claims to be a Golden Bear fan but does nothing but rip "our" coaches.

wcalfan;1365936 wrote:Did I EVER say our team's talent is the caliber of a junior high team? Again, this is NOT junior high anymore, put on your big boy pants and quit putting words in people mouths. I just said the SIZE of our kids compared to most schools isn't even close. That is a FACT. "We" will deal with it and it will just make "us" work harder. But.... SIZE does matter...

Don't call me friend. I want no association with a person who claims to be a Golden Bear fan but does nothing but rip "our" coaches.

My friend, again your words" WE LOOK LIKE A JUNIOR HIGH TEAM COMPARED TO THEM", so YES you did say it.
I have never ripped a coach as you put it, I have stated I think there is a problem with the football program, when I hear boys are not going out because of a person there has to be something going on there? You can not walk the hallways with blinders on an say there is not a problem.
There are two ways to deal with a problem, I think most people would prefer to deal with it an fix it, not walk the halls an look for excuses.
All I said from day one is lets fix the problem, if your hearing things from the kids investigate see what they are saying. I think we both agree there is a problem, lets just double check all the facts an hold people accountable. AND REMEMBER YOU CAN NEVER DEMAND RESPECT!

eyes r burning;1365984 wrote:My friend, again your words" WE LOOK LIKE A JUNIOR HIGH TEAM COMPARED TO THEM", so YES you did say it.
I have never ripped a coach as you put it, I have stated I think there is a problem with the football program, when I hear boys are not going out because of a person there has to be something going on there? You can not walk the hallways with blinders on an say there is not a problem.
There are two ways to deal with a problem, I think most people would prefer to deal with it an fix it, not walk the halls an look for excuses.
All I said from day one is lets fix the problem, if your hearing things from the kids investigate see what they are saying. I think we both agree there is a problem, lets just double check all the facts an hold people accountable. AND REMEMBER YOU CAN NEVER DEMAND RESPECT!

Everyone else on here understands what I am saying when I sat those things. I have NEVER said our talent level is that bad...I have said numerous times on here that when you line our kids up to some of the other WCAL schools...we look like junior high kids. We PHYSICALLY look like junior high kids compared to the those teams. Not all of the teams but a majority of them.

Again, I am NOT walking the hallways on a daily basis...so PLEASE give up on that theory. You may be right that we need to hold people accountable but that goes for EVERYONE involved. We all need to hold ourselves accountable and make sure that this gets better for our student-athletes. One thing that does NOT help is people getting on here bashing our coaches.

And for you to honestly get on here and say you have not ripped Coach Z....SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?! Don't insult my intelligence MY FRIEND!!!!

wcalfan;1366268 wrote:Everyone else on here understands what I am saying when I sat those things. I have NEVER said our talent level is that bad...I have said numerous times on here that when you line our kids up to some of the other WCAL schools...we look like junior high kids. We PHYSICALLY look like junior high kids compared to the those teams. Not all of the teams but a majority of them.

Again, I am NOT walking the hallways on a daily basis...so PLEASE give up on that theory. You may be right that we need to hold people accountable but that goes for EVERYONE involved. We all need to hold ourselves accountable and make sure that this gets better for our student-athletes. One thing that does NOT help is people getting on here bashing our coaches.

And for you to honestly get on here and say you have not ripped Coach Z....SERIOUSLY?!?!?!?! Don't insult my intelligence MY FRIEND!!!!

The once proud tradition has eroded to it's current condition ( which is an after thought to the kids, like I might run track, or I might play baseball, no buy into the programs just maybe something to do.
Now you can blame a lot of different things, but it all starts at the top, losing good assistant coaches, kids not fitting the program, taking the fun out of the game. Those are just some of the things being said, those are also things that erode a program!
Two league titles in Z's tenure, both with the area MVP in the backfield.
Three playoff appearances ZERO wins, even with the area MVP in the backfield.
When the eroding of of a program has involved to it's current state, the leadership quality has to be questioned an evaluated, if this is being done, truthfully being done then that's all we as people looking in can ask for.
And my friend evaluating is not ripping as you put it. Thank you an good day!

eyes r burning;1366479 wrote:The once proud tradition has eroded to it's current condition ( which is an after thought to the kids, like I might run track, or I might play baseball, no buy into the programs just maybe something to do.
Now you can blame a lot of different things, but it all starts at the top, losing good assistant coaches, kids not fitting the program, taking the fun out of the game. Those are just some of the things being said, those are also things that erode a program!
Two league titles in Z's tenure, both with the area MVP in the backfield.
Three playoff appearances ZERO wins, even with the area MVP in the backfield.
When the eroding of of a program has involved to it's current state, the leadership quality has to be questioned an evaluated, if this is being done, truthfully being done then that's all we as people looking in can ask for.
And my friend evaluating is not ripping as you put it. Thank you an good day!

You are RIGHT (can't believe I am saying this)....we had the MVP in the backfield but he was MVP his junior year not both years. He was hurt his senior year and wasn't near as productive. Let's ask Norwayne if they would have won without Wallace or Zimmerly the last 2 years. For that matter, ask any past league champs if they win without their "horse". Come on man...you are just proving my point that you need TALENTED players to win games.

You are WRONG (love to say this) when you say zero playoff wins. We beat NW in 2007. His 3 playoff losses are to Ursuline, Crestview and Cuyahoga Hts. Hmmmm...pretty decent programs there.

I love it when you say...taking the fun out of the game and kids not fitting the program. You are GRASPING for things and it is just comical. Then you say "eroding of a program"...tell me where the talent is to win games? Where is it?!?!?!?! Let me guess....walking the hallways?!?!?! That is simply not true and you know it. Like I said earlier...next year we will have ONE class that has had a winning record at ANY LEVEL.

If you are going to get on here and spew....you better have the facts straight. Don't just go by what you have heard at work or what the people on the fence are telling you or what you read on the internet. Credibility is earned FRIEND!!!

wcalfan;1366537 wrote:You are RIGHT (can't believe I am saying this)....we had the MVP in the backfield but he was MVP his junior year not both years. He was hurt his senior year and wasn't near as productive. Let's ask Norwayne if they would have won without Wallace or Zimmerly the last 2 years. For that matter, ask any past league champs if they win without their "horse". Come on man...you are just proving my point that you need TALENTED players to win games.

You are WRONG (love to say this) when you say zero playoff wins. We beat NW in 2007. His 3 playoff losses are to Ursuline, Crestview and Cuyahoga Hts. Hmmmm...pretty decent programs there.

I love it when you say...taking the fun out of the game and kids not fitting the program. You are GRASPING for things and it is just comical. Then you say "eroding of a program"...tell me where the talent is to win games? Where is it?!?!?!?! Let me guess....walking the hallways?!?!?! That is simply not true and you know it. Like I said earlier...next year we will have ONE class that has had a winning record at ANY LEVEL.

If you are going to get on here and spew....you better have the facts straight. Don't just go by what you have heard at work or what the people on the fence are telling you or what you read on the internet. Credibility is earned FRIEND!!!

Stand up right now, walk into the hallway and go to Mr. Stanley's office an ask him how to develop an build a program, I'm pretty sure it differs from what's going on there. NOW STAND UP AN MARCH OUT THAT DOOR, MY DEAR FRIEND

Wclfan, I will leave you with one thought before I head into work today. Iwould also like to say it's been a pleasure chatting with the last couple of days, but we seem to be getting nowhere and this is not to productive, maybe we should both put our time to better use?
Now back to my thought, IF YOU want to bring instant creditably back to your program put a Lemon or Stanley in charge of it, there that's how you fix it...., enjoy the rest of your day my fuzzy little Golden Bear buddy.... I'm out!!!!!

eyes r burning;1366589 wrote:Stand up right now, walk into the hallway and go to Mr. Stanley's office an ask him how to develop an build a program, I'm pretty sure it differs from what's going on there. NOW STAND UP AN MARCH OUT THAT DOOR, MY DEAR FRIEND

I stood up and walked into the hallway but I ran into the restroom at my house...hmmm, maybe I can find the answer in there?!?!?!? Nice try, :rolleyes:AGAIN!!!!

Actually, you could walk over to Mr. Stanley's office by hopping out your back door...it's only a short jaunt.

eyes r burning;1366649 wrote:Wclfan, I will leave you with one thought before I head into work today. Iwould also like to say it's been a pleasure chatting with the last couple of days, but we seem to be getting nowhere and this is not to productive, maybe we should both put our time to better use?
Now back to my thought, IF YOU want to bring instant creditably back to your program put a Lemon or Stanley in charge of it, there that's how you fix it...., enjoy the rest of your day my fuzzy little Golden Bear buddy.... I'm out!!!!!

Enough said....

wcalfan;1366794 wrote:Enough said....

Not sure way you edited your post? But yes I was very serious, I'm telling you that Dale or Louie could and would bring this program back (and would not have let it get to it's current state).
It would be tough for one to pull double duty, but I'm 110% sure he could pull it off. I'm sure your asking yourself why I believe he could do it?
Because he is a LEADER, great LEADERS surround themselves with with talented people they trust, listen to and believe in!!!
Now I'm not saying we would of hung with the upper tier teams in the league, AN NO ONE expected Z's coached team too either! I know you will say we were out sized, non-athlete, junior high like crap, but can you honestly say 1-9 chipps, 2-8 Ritt, 3-7 ? Dat. had more size an talent the we did? I say No and I'm sure you will say Yes, so for the sake of argument lets say we were equal in size an talent.
Now by this point in the season I had seen enough, so I was just following the paper an getting second hand info from guys at work, these games were not even close, I would really like an explanation from a self-proclaimed expert as yourself about how we could not compete against the lowest tier teams?
Here are three possible things that could of happened.
1) Totally over matched, size and talent. (if this is the case football should be dropped an lets go play hiland and CC in soccer)
2) Terrible game plan (out coached)
3) The players could not will themselves to play for the current leadership, they wanted to practiced hard, but their MINDS just would not let them. They quit, not physically but mentally, this his hard to over come!

Now I'm sure you will say #1, which really tells me, the buy in we can expect in the years to come an the future looks mighty dark. But I will on the other hand go with #2,3.
Well I have to get to work an get my daily waynedale beat down from my co-workers (you know I had to wear blue & white for a week after the chipps game, not one of my higher points in my life)
Can I ask a favor of you today? I would like you to walk over to the library and do some research on a few things 1) constructive criticism, 2) Leadership, 3) Erosion. Hopefully you can let me know your views on these 3 things an we can discuss them at a later time. One other thing I would like you to think about, a great football player does not automatically make you a great leader, an leader are born not made. You look at a a lot of great coaches, must barely played, but what they can do is lead people, not by force but because they want to follow then, it's a gift.
Got to roll!!!!