Chicago Cubs (Chris Volstad) vs Cincinnati Reds (Mat Latos) - Game 4

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Azubuike24

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Aug 19, 2012 11:41 AM
Valdez in there again. It's tough to justify him starting anywhere, IMO. I'd rather see Frazier at 3B, Ludwick at 1B and Heisey in LF.

SS Cozart
CF Stubbs
2B Phillips
LF Ludwick
RF Bruce
1B Frazier
CA Hanigan
3B Valdez
SP Latos

Maybe it shouldn't matter as Chris Volstad is 0-9 with a 6.96 ERA. He's started 23 games since his last victory, July 10th of last year.
Aug 19, 2012 11:41am
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Terry_Tate

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Aug 19, 2012 11:44 AM
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa, Hanigan not batting 8th???? WTF?
Aug 19, 2012 11:44am
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Terry_Tate

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Aug 19, 2012 11:47 AM
Ok, just checked Reds twitter, Hanigan is indeed 8th. Whew, that's a relief.

Also, starting Valdez is a joke.
Aug 19, 2012 11:47am
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jordo212000

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Aug 19, 2012 12:56 PM
Would love Ludwick at 1st, but he's never played there. Doubtful they stick him there now
Aug 19, 2012 12:56pm
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SportsAndLady

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Aug 19, 2012 2:22 PM
Good God, Volstad is fucking awful
Aug 19, 2012 2:22pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 2:30 PM
jordo212000;1250156 wrote:Would love Ludwick at 1st, but he's never played there. Doubtful they stick him there now

I'd wager 400 zillion dollars that he'd be just fine.
Aug 19, 2012 2:30pm
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Midstate01

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Aug 19, 2012 2:33 PM
Ironman92;1250190 wrote:I'd wager 400 zillion dollars that he'd be just fine.

Why wager 400 zillion when you can wager 1 millllllllion dollars.
Aug 19, 2012 2:33pm
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gerb131

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Aug 19, 2012 2:54 PM
Little jam for Latos in the 6th. 4-3 Reds now.
Aug 19, 2012 2:54pm
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gerb131

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Aug 19, 2012 2:54 PM
Bailed out by Cozarts fine dp to Phillips to Frazier.
Aug 19, 2012 2:54pm
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gerb131

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Aug 19, 2012 3:47 PM
4-4 in the 8th.
Aug 19, 2012 3:47pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 4:42 PM
Midstate01;1250191 wrote:Why wager 400 zillion when you can wager 1 millllllllion dollars.

Thought I was sleeper for a second.
Aug 19, 2012 4:42pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 4:44 PM
Frazier with the play of the game.....Hanigan with 2 big plays at the end. X marks the spot.

Stubbs is 7 for his last 47
Phillips is 4 for his last 33
Aug 19, 2012 4:44pm
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jordo212000

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Aug 19, 2012 5:02 PM
Ironman92;1250236 wrote: Stubbs is 7 for his last 47
Phillips is 4 for his last 33
I really think Heisey punched Dusty in the gonads or peed in his Wheaties. What does Stubbs have to do to get benched?
Aug 19, 2012 5:02pm
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Azubuike24

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Aug 19, 2012 5:04 PM
jordo212000;1250250 wrote:I really think Heisey punched Dusty in the gonads or peed in his Wheaties. What does Stubbs have to do to get benched?
Heisey is even worse...if that's possible.
Aug 19, 2012 5:04pm
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jordo212000

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Aug 19, 2012 5:07 PM
Azubuike24;1250254 wrote:Heisey is even worse...if that's possible.

Can we at least play him for the same amount of time to make that determination? I doubt he hits lower than what Stubbs is putting together right now
Aug 19, 2012 5:07pm
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Azubuike24

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Aug 19, 2012 5:12 PM
jordo212000;1250259 wrote:Can we at least play him for the same amount of time to make that determination? I doubt he hits lower than what Stubbs is putting together right now
Who knows. Stubbs is a better center-fielder. Coming into the year, Heisey's BB/K ratio was just as bad and his K-ratio was comparable (hint, both are near the bottom in MLB in this category). I'd actually venture to say Heisey might perform worse. Heisey has a -0.2 WAR number this year. Stubbs is at least positive. For their career, Heisey is lower on average.

Eventually, the organization has to realize neither are starting caliber OF's. The conclusions are just going to be reached in different manners.
Aug 19, 2012 5:12pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 7:18 PM
My point has always been.....neither deserve over 350 AB...barring injuries Stubbs is top 10 in games played per season. I just can't recall someone gets so many chances without ever improving and from Day 1 of his call up.
Aug 19, 2012 7:18pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 7:26 PM
Stubbs has been in the league for almost exactly 3 years...in those 3 years here are his different consecutive games played streaks.

Consecutive games:

79
76
42
34
31
30
29
25
23
22
19 (current)

10x in just 3 years he has played in 22 consecutive games....6x over 30, 2x over 75!

Heisey has nearly 3 years and has never played in 22 straight....until May this year he had NEVER started more than 14 games in a month. This May in his 1st chance at semi-regular starting....he hit .333 (24/72) in those 19 starts.

I did not sway a single number. Stubbs is Stubbs....completely labeled over 3 straight years of every day starting. Heisey was labeled as a bench guy after minimal consistent starting opportunities and when he did well as a pinch-hitter....he was then a pinch-hitter.

I've never ever said Heisey was an everyday player. My problem is you have two players the same age and came up the same time pretty much and one is given every opportunity even with horrible slumps and the other plays his tail off every attempt and it just doesn't matter.....and his first attempt ever at full-time he hits .333 and was excellent in CF for what it's worth.....but I know it's worth nothing.

Go Reds!
Aug 19, 2012 7:26pm
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SportsAndLady

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Aug 19, 2012 8:17 PM
They're just letting him ride until Billy Hamilton comes up in September and doesn't ever go back down
Aug 19, 2012 8:17pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 8:25 PM
SportsAndLady;1250344 wrote:They're just letting him ride until Billy Hamilton comes up in September and doesn't ever go back down

I will have no issues with that.....unless he's pretty much doing what Patterson/Taveras/Stubbs have done in the Dusty era....unless he's doing what they did with 91 SB
Aug 19, 2012 8:25pm
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jordo212000

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Aug 19, 2012 8:49 PM
SportsAndLady;1250344 wrote:They're just letting him ride until Billy Hamilton comes up in September and doesn't ever go back down

Would love that to be the case, but IF he comes up, big If, he'll be speed of the bench,

Don't think he is ready yet, and you don't break in a guy like that during a pennant race
Aug 19, 2012 8:49pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 8:57 PM
jordo212000;1250369 wrote:Would love that to be the case, but IF he comes up, big If, he'll be speed of the bench,

Don't think he is ready yet, and you don't break in a guy like that during a pennant race

Meh...let him run the bases and when we are playing minor league teams in mid Sept with a 12 game lead...let him play a few.
Aug 19, 2012 8:57pm
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SportsAndLady

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Aug 19, 2012 8:58 PM
jordo212000;1250369 wrote:Would love that to be the case, but IF he comes up, big If, he'll be speed of the bench,

Don't think he is ready yet, and you don't break in a guy like that during a pennant race
I think it's a pretty fair conclusion that he'll be up
Aug 19, 2012 8:58pm
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Ironman92

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Aug 19, 2012 9:25 PM
SportsAndLady;1250380 wrote:I think it's a pretty fair conclusion that he'll be up

I love lightning in a bottle. Can you imagine a 2-2 game in the 8th inning with Meso getting a hit and one out and here comes Billy Hamilton out of the dugout in GABP.....ELECTRIC, pressure will go to the pitcher/catcher. I bet their will be a buzz on the road. Relief pitchers want no part of this kid being called up. You guys remember what Vince Coleman used to do to pitchers....nervous wreck.

The Reds fan-base will go bazerk whenever the call is made....it'll be Chapman-like with the entering the game anticipation.

Can't wait. I love athletes in their sport that can do things that no one else can do.
Aug 19, 2012 9:25pm
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Azubuike24

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Aug 19, 2012 9:26 PM
Hamilton will be on the 40-man next year. He isn't now. That will require a move, but it's much easier to justify when he's going to be there after the season anyway. He'll be up, the question is, to what capacity. I have to think he will get a shot to earn a bench spot for the post-season roster, given how weak the bench has been all year. Now I'm not saying he should be expected to contribute, but Miguel Cairo, Wilson Valdez and Chris Heisey should be paying attention as the playoffs near...Hamilton could replace all 3.
Aug 19, 2012 9:26pm