gut;1245666 wrote:Or maybe it's because a hunting license is issued by a govt agency and college id's, well, aren't... among other issues.

Next you'll tell me they approve a D/L because poor people (who vote mostly Dem, at least in most regions) are less likely to own a car.

:rolleyes: and yet Veteran's Affairs I.D.'s are no good either despite being issued by a government agency. Why can't you just accept the blatant politics of this particular issue?

BoatShoes;1245800 wrote::rolleyes: and yet Veteran's Affairs I.D.'s are no good either despite being issued by a government agency. Why can't you just accept the blatant politics of this particular issue?

You are calling him out for only seeing it his way while you only think it's Repubs trying to stop people from voting and nothing else. Hm

elitesmithie05;1245768 wrote:Its free in Texas where its required.(for voting purposes)

Right, but if we enforced it at the national level, then it wouldn't be free for everyone unless they changed that.

BoatShoes;1245800 wrote::rolleyes: and yet Veteran's Affairs I.D.'s are no good either despite being issued by a government agency. Why can't you just accept the blatant politics of this particular issue?

I accept it's politiical, on both sides. You are acting like the liberals are clean here.

I don't think it's should be an issue for voters to provide ID, and I think it should be required. I also think you're exagerating the impact and reasoning behind some of this. I don't know why you can't use a Veteran's Affairs ID, but wouldn't more of them tend to vote Repub? You're just blindly attacking the repubs here even when it makes absolutely no sense.

BoatShoes;1245656 wrote:The argument is that if it was just an ID requirement and some money was appropriated to help ensure that people without ID's got them then it may be reasonable even though there is no evidence that are voting process is insecure. However, that is not the case with these laws being passed. For instance, college I.D.'s aren't adequate photo identification but a hunting license is valid identification? Why...because college kids are stupid liberals and hunters are conservatives.

I actually like tk41's proposal.

These laws are not being passed to secure our voting process. They're being passed to make it easier for Republicans to vote and harder for liberals with the hope that this slight nudge will swing the election Republicans and finally free us from the marxists.

Sorry, but "Obama is a closet Muslim Marxist Communist" thinks that argument is lame.

How do these laws make it easier for Republicans to vote? More Republicans have driver's licenses? I can just imagine all these governors and state legislatures passing these laws, while banking on the hope that college students (bright enough to become college students) are too stupid to obtain a valid form of identification. Oh yeah, and that the vast majority of them are in fact liberals.

I mean, registering to vote in the first place makes it "harder to vote". Are we willing to say that the current process also makes it easier for Republicans to register?

gut;1245852 wrote:I accept it's politiical, on both sides. You are acting like the liberals are clean here.

I don't think it's should be an issue for voters to provide ID, and I think it should be required. I also think you're exaggerating the impact and reasoning behind some of this. I don't know why you can't use a Veteran's Affairs ID, but wouldn't more of them tend to vote Repub? You're just blindly attacking the repubs here even when it makes absolutely no sense.

This.

Partisan politics? Nah. Just look at what State Rep. Turzai said about Pennsylvania's voter I.D. law...

http://chartiersvalley.patch.com/articles/mike-turzais-comments-renew-debate-over-new-voter-id-law#youtube_video-10461026

If that isn't a smoking gun, I don't know what is.

Yes, people who can't provide the most basic of identification to show their eligibility to vote will prevent Obama from winning PA.

Really that whole debate is quite comical to me. People with stolen social security numbers are going to be prevented from going to the polls to vote more handouts. OHHHHHH, THE HUMANITY!!!!

stlouiedipalma;1245948 wrote:Partisan politics? Nah. Just look at what State Rep. Turzai said about Pennsylvania's voter I.D. law...

http://chartiersvalley.patch.com/articles/mike-turzais-comments-renew-debate-over-new-voter-id-law#youtube_video-10461026

If that isn't a smoking gun, I don't know what is.

Nah, not much evidence there.
Is there wide voter fraud in this country? Not really. This is not 19th century Chicago or New York.
Is it changing elections? I doubt it. If it is occurring, it is happening at such a small level as to not dramatically change races.


Should IDs be mandated? I actually say yes, but not until 2014 as to give each state time to implement its own measures.
Like other arguments on here, most people should have some form of ID. If they don't, for other purposes, they need one. I don't see the harm. But, saying nationally, it should be done before November, is a little much.


All that said, I don't see why it is an issue. What is a bigger issue to me, is how districts for Congressional seats are made. That is some of the shadiest methods of drawing districts that seem to always favor the party in power and the incumbents.

^^^

/thread

gut;1246182 wrote:Yes, people who can't provide the most basic of identification to show their eligibility to vote will prevent Obama from winning PA.

Really that whole debate is quite comical to me. People with stolen social security numbers are going to be prevented from going to the polls to vote more handouts. OHHHHHH, THE HUMANITY!!!!

Once again, read the links. There is no evidence of significant voter fraud anywhere. This is just a case of a "solution" in search of a "problem".


I always thought that teabaggers were simply misguided or misinformed. After hearing your ridiculous stereotypes over and over again, I have come to the conclusion they are neither.

They're just plain stupid.

stlouiedipalma;1246235 wrote: I always thought that teabaggers were simply misguided or misinformed. After hearing your ridiculous stereotypes over and over again, I have come to the conclusion they are neither.

They're just plain stupid.

That's hilarious. The fact that I'm not a "tea-bagger" just shows how ignorant you actually are.

Without attempting to define "significant", or whether safeguards should be put in place regardless...It's just good common sense to require an ID. People should have them. Period.

The lefties continue to amaze me. They insist that voter fraud doesn't exist (IE: illegals, dead people, etc. aren't showing up at the voting booths particularly in Democratic strongholds).

They argue that since voter fraud doesn't exist, there's no need to produce a valid photo ID at the polling places.

Yet if voting fraud doesn't exist, then what harm is there in asking for a vaild ID?

Voting is arguably one of the most important if not THE most important civic duty legally valid American citizens can perform. Elections matter. Public policy derived from our elected officials directly impact our daily lives. There's no getting around it...That's huge.

Yes, yes these are the same old tired right-wing talking points but the following points are absolutely true. We MUST submit a valid ID to drive a car, buy a home, secure a loan, buy a gun, purchase alcohol, and countless other ways.

Yet when it's suggested that we place the same requirements on the incredibly important function of voting, the lefties cry foul. Securing a valid photo ID is not a major issue for legitimate American citizens. Almost everyone has one in order to function and participate in society.

Can anyone argue against the fact that only legal U.S. citizens should be qualified to vote? Not only is it the right thing to do, it's the fugging LAW.

So again, if voter fraud doesn't exist, then why is producing a valid ID a the polling places a problem?

The reason the Dems don't want it is because they know that voter fraud exists and that a vast majority of those illegal "votes" go to the sugar-daddy Democrats. For Dems, it's NOT about doing the right and legal thing and it's not about maintaining the integrity of our precious democratic process.

It's about making sure every vote gets counted....even if the votes are illegal. It's about gaining and maintaining politcal power even if they have to cheat to get there.

believer;1246276 wrote: It's about making sure every DEMOCRAT vote gets counted....even if the votes are illegal. It's about gaining and maintaining politcal power even if they have to cheat to get there.

Fixed it for ya. Let's not forget when Gore tried to get the overseas military ballots thrown out in FL, or how when doing the recounts they first only wanted to make sure every vote in DEM counties got counted.

It's laughable how some on here are pretending the Dems don't have an agenda here or are on the righteous side. If voter fraud doesn't exist, then why are Dems so adamantly opposed to what most feel is just basic common sense? Hmm, self-explanatory redundancy there.

most people felt a literacy test was a good idea but it was used to keep people from voting as are voter id.
'Voter ID, which is going to allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania." Mike Turzai, Republican leader pennsylvania house of rep.

What's preventing anyone from getting a voter id?

time, money, transportation, disability,

isadore;1246453 wrote:time, money, transportation, disability,

Time? Only unemployed people don't have IDs since you need an ID to work in this country. Money, it's free in states that require them. Transportation? Called walking. Disability? Called a friend. All of things apply to voting as well, but ID-less people don't bitch then.

of course they can bitch, they are being denied their basic right to vote by a right wing political conspiracy.

isadore;1246506 wrote:of course they can bitch, they are being denied their basic right to vote by a right wing political conspiracy.

If you can manage to vote, you can manage to get an ID.

Texas disagrees.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/story/2012-03-19/voter-ID-Texas-fraud/53658158/1

isadore;1246506 wrote:of course they can bitch, they are being denied their basic right to vote by a right wing political conspiracy.

Show me in the bible where it gives the right of anyone to vote in a democracy.

So does Wisconin.


http://www.punditpress.com/2011/04/evidence-of-wisconsin-voter-fraud.html

So they have the time, money and resources to get to a voting booth, but not get a free ID?

believer;1246276 wrote:The lefties continue to amaze me. They insist that voter fraud doesn't exist (IE: illegals, dead people, etc. aren't showing up at the voting booths particularly in Democratic strongholds).

They argue that since voter fraud doesn't exist, there's no need to produce a valid photo ID at the polling places.

Yet if voting fraud doesn't exist, then what harm is there in asking for a vaild ID?

Voting is arguably one of the most important if not THE most important civic duty legally valid American citizens can perform. Elections matter. Public policy derived from our elected officials directly impact our daily lives. There's no getting around it...That's huge.

Yes, yes these are the same old tired right-wing talking points but the following points are absolutely true. We MUST submit a valid ID to drive a car, buy a home, secure a loan, buy a gun, purchase alcohol, and countless other ways.

Yet when it's suggested that we place the same requirements on the incredibly important function of voting, the lefties cry foul. Securing a valid photo ID is not a major issue for legitimate American citizens. Almost everyone has one in order to function and participate in society.

Can anyone argue against the fact that only legal U.S. citizens should be qualified to vote? Not only is it the right thing to do, it's the fugging LAW.

So again, if voter fraud doesn't exist, then why is producing a valid ID a the polling places a problem?

The reason the Dems don't want it is because they know that voter fraud exists and that a vast majority of those illegal "votes" go to the sugar-daddy Democrats. For Dems, it's NOT about doing the right and legal thing and it's not about maintaining the integrity of our precious democratic process.

It's about making sure every vote gets counted....even if the votes are illegal. It's about gaining and maintaining politcal power even if they have to cheat to get there.

Illegals and dead people aren't showing up at the voting booth. That's just another of your talking points meant to drum up support for voter suppression.

As for your list of thing which require I.D., not everyone can drive a car. You have to pass the exam. Not everyone can buy a home or secure a loan. You must make application and show ability to make payments. Buying a gun? You have to apply in order to buy one legally. Drinking alcohol? There are age requirements to make sure that underage people aren't being supplied alcohol.

Voting? It is a basic right for citizens of our country and should not be denied or suppressed.