Well it does come down to compromise...and leadership. Romney/Paul aren't going to move mountains in a day, but they can exercise leadership to get us moving in the right direction. The current administration, when it actually bothers trying to lead, usually acts like "hey guys, this cliff over here is the fastest way down"

O-Trap;1245859 wrote:I don't disagree that he's trying, but if a batter is trying to hit a pitched baseball while facing the catcher, I'm not putting stake his ability to hit, regardless of his effort.

I think there are other options, like Obama's budget that got 0 votes in the D controlled Senate, that is more closely related to your metaphor. Ryan is facing the pitcher, he's just a AA hitter facing a Cy Young pitcher (the problems we face).

jmog;1245879 wrote:I think there are other options, like Obama's budget that got 0 votes in the D controlled Senate, that is more closely related to your metaphor. Ryan is facing the pitcher, he's just a AA hitter facing a Cy Young pitcher (the problems we face).

My metaphor was more to indicate the literal direction of the effort. If Karl Marx himself had been able to be a senator, I have no doubt that he would have tried vigorously (given his seeming passion), but I daresay I think his efforts would be directed very much in the opposite direction necessary. Enter TARP and other such bailouts, and I think you have effort in the categorically opposite direction of what is necessary.

Sorry for the lack of clarity in the analogy.

From the perspective of actual cost (read: losses) to the taxpayer, TARP and the auto-bailouts (most of that money being paid back) is a drop in the bucket. The cost of the alternative was much, much worse. I get the free market arguments and the incentives, but it was too late to put that horse back in the barn. You deal with the situation - which we did - and then tackle the regulation to prevent a repeat.

Also, people keep forgetting that the first two to be in trouble - Lehman and Bear - WERE allowed to fail. It was only when the risk truly became systemic that the govt stepped in with a bailout. I have a lot of complaints about the Obama administration, but that particular bi-partisan effort, started under Bush, is not one of them.

when obama is re elected the message sent to the republican is obvious. Abandon greed, selfishness and racism. but as you read these threads it is obviously an option they are not anywhere near adopting.

isadore;1248251 wrote:when obama is re elected the message sent to the republican is obvious. Abandon greed, selfishness and racism. but as you read these threads it is obviously an option they are not anywhere near adopting.

Oh, I see now---> ONLY Republicans are greedy, selfish and racist.

Our Dear Leader is never greedy for more of the people's money. Those on the government entitlement tit, like the Green Energy Gang, would gladly be less selfish and give up their manna. Biden is certainly race-pure as he claims chains are just around the corner. Got it.

It is hardly an example of personal greed or selfishness to make the rich and greedy pay their fair share of taxes and use that money to help children, oldsters, disabled and the poor.
Biden’s warning was appropriate given the racist attitudes found among many republicans.

^^^The so-called rich already pay MORE than their "fair" share. It is criminal to take, by government force, more than 1/3 of the labor and production of any one person.

obama is the Promoter-in-Chief of hate, division, class warfare, envy, and entitlement. And he's YOUR man.

I am not a total fan of either of these teams. I think it is a little short sighted to assume that because someone is rich or wealthy that they are greedy and selfish but I also think it is wrong to assume that everyone on the government tip is lazy or undeserving of a little help. What I do know is they are both a part of a system that allows for errors to occur on both ends of that same system. And that is where both of these guys are playing the game. Both of these guys are putting out and supporting campaigns that are based on half truths at best. It seems like honor and dignity have been replaced with sensationalism and what is "news worthy". And the media couldn't be more willing to put this garbage out for us to argue over. I really think we all WANT the same things, a growing economy, for the people that are here to have earned the right to be here, a strong military to protect our boarders, everyone to pay their fair share of taxes and to see those dollars being used for the good of those paying them. I just feel like the system puts us at odds more than these candidates and I think they are betting on it. Sometimes it just feels like we are all arguing over something that is sour. My dad always told me "if a man will lie about something that doesn't really matter what do you think he will be capable of when it does"? That is what kills me about some of the discussion I hear, "oh that wasn't a big deal, no one really cares about what he said there"! ALL OF THESE GUYS SHOULD BE HELD THE HIGHEST STANDARD PERIOD! They are trying to hold office of the president of the United States of America, that should mean something. Sorry that this post really didn't add much to the blistering debate but I needed to vent, I enjoy reading everyones opinion, this is one emotionally charges election that is for sure. Keep the debate rolling. Hope everyone is having a great week!

Isadore can we get a reply to this :

America indebtedness has increased by another $11 trillion. Yet these estimates do not include the full impact of ObamaCare, which could add another $17+ trillion. On the other side of the ledger: the annual Gross Domestic Product (the value of all economic activity in the U.S.) is $15.6 trillion. The indebtedness to GDP ratio is a staggering 14.2 to 1 and guaranteed to further accelerate if Barack Obama is re-elected.

The United States is not facing bankruptcy, it is bankrupt. The primary factor that has kept the nation afloat over the past four years is that the dollar, albeit temporarily, remains the world's reserve currency, thus allowing the Federal Reserve to print enormous sums of money to cover the Obama budget deficits and flood the global market with near worthless cash. Today it requires $100.00 to purchase the same goods $10.00 purchased in 1950.

As a further comparison, the total annual GDP of all the countries on earth is $70 trillion. The American indebtedness alone exceeds that amount by a factor of 3 -- which contributes mightily to a world drowning in debt and facing an inevitable debt crisis and financial collapse, which will trigger a massive global depression.

Currently, just 58.4% of the civilian population is employed, as compared to 64.3% twelve years ago. Factoring in the growth of the population during that period, this drop represents over 22 million Americans unable to find work. Since January 2009, 74% of all new jobs created in the U.S. were in the lowest-paying sectors of the economy, thereby stifling any chance of upward mobility and growth in median income which has fallen by 9% since January 2009, and average household wealth that has declined by nearly 40% over this same period

Is this what you want for America?

Good post sanitzer. And this sentence is important: "And the media couldn't be more willing to put this garbage out for us to argue over." Because of the media's desire to focus on the 'garbage' instead of facts and issue-oriented speech, you have what you have. Sad.

QuakerOats;1248381 wrote:^^^The so-called rich already pay MORE than their "fair" share. It is criminal to take, by government force, more than 1/3 of the labor and production of any one person.

obama is the Promoter-in-Chief of hate, division, class warfare, envy, and entitlement. And he's YOUR man.

hardly the fair share of the rich.
hate of republicans has been consistent from the charge from the charges he was crypto muslim born in kenya who did not know his place to the present attempt to use disenfranchise blacks and others with voter id, it is easy to find the republlicans are the party of racism and class war.

isadore;1248329 wrote:It is hardly an example of personal greed or selfishness to make the rich and greedy pay their fair share of taxes and use that money to help children, oldsters, disabled and the poor.
Biden’s warning was appropriate given the racist attitudes found among many republicans.

Please define "fair share". Or is it a nebulous "Whatever a liberal says it is"?

isadore;1248416 wrote:hardly the fair share of the rich.
hate of republicans has been consistent from the charge from the charges he was crypto muslim born in kenya who did not know his place to the present attempt to use disenfranchise blacks and others with voter id, it is easy to find the republlicans are the party of racism and class war.

I don't know what you consider racism. A republican who thinks everyone can succeed based on their works and efforts and wants to get out of the way or a Democrat that thinks blacks can only succeed when they(govt/themselves) helps them?

jhay78;1248448 wrote:Please define "fair share". Or is it a nebulous "Whatever a liberal says it is"?

the rates they paid before reagan, bush jr.

isadore;1248461 wrote:the rates they paid before reagan, bush jr.

And by what criteria have we determined this to be the "fair share?"

Still deflecting from the issue at hand. Where do the Republicans go from here when Obama is reelected in November? No President will have been reelected with such poor economic metrics is history. He'll be the first candidate ever to win while being out raised by his opponent.

Historically, this should be a blowout, but the Republicans are going to throw it away. And the demographics are only going to continue trending against them in the coming years. What needs to change for them to be competitive in a national general election again? Discontinuing the pandering to the extreme Christians? A move to the left on economic issues? Social? Targeting different candidates within their party?

Once the inevitable QQing in November ends. Once the blaming Romney, the media, the boogeyman, etc. all ends. There's going to need to be some serious self-reflection within the party as to where they go from here.

2kool4skool;1248473 wrote:Still deflecting from the issue at hand. Where do the Republicans go from here when Obama is reelected in November? No President will have been reelected with such poor economic metrics is history. He'll be the first candidate ever to win while being out raised by his opponent.

Historically, this should be a blowout, but the Republicans are going to throw it away. And the demographics are only going to continue trending against them in the coming years. What needs to change for them to be competitive in a national general election again? Discontinuing the pandering to the extreme Christians? A move to the left on economic issues? Social? Targeting different candidates within their party?

Once the inevitable QQing in November ends. Once the blaming Romney, the media, the boogeyman, etc. all ends. There's going to need to be some serious self-reflection within the party as to where they go from here.

Repped.

Once Republicans realize that what they think is "electable" within their party is laughably unelectable outside it, they have the opportunity to compete again. Until then, they'll be putting out candidates that are about as competitive as limp milk toast in a general election, given that this one is going to lose to an incumbent with a poor track record and approval rating.

isadore;1248416 wrote:hardly the fair share of the rich.
...

Here's a "fair share" number for you.

Each U.S. citizen's share of the national debt is approximately $50,829.81. How about everyone pay their fair share and we'll start over with an accurate balanced budget debate?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

2kool4skool;1248473 wrote:Still deflecting from the issue at hand. Where do the Republicans go from here when Obama is reelected in November? No President will have been reelected with such poor economic metrics is history. He'll be the first candidate ever to win while being out raised by his opponent.

Historically, this should be a blowout, but the Republicans are going to throw it away. And the demographics are only going to continue trending against them in the coming years. What needs to change for them to be competitive in a national general election again? Discontinuing the pandering to the extreme Christians? A move to the left on economic issues? Social? Targeting different candidates within their party?

Once the inevitable QQing in November ends. Once the blaming Romney, the media, the boogeyman, etc. all ends. There's going to need to be some serious self-reflection within the party as to where they go from here.

obama is losing votes from every single demographic, bar none. He will lose significant votes from independents, Catholics, Jews, conservative blacks, and the youth. He will be unable to make up for the loss of votes anywhere else. So again, this thread is effectively moot.

LOL @ those who seem to think this thing still isn't anyone's ballgame.

In order to embrace the victim mentality, you MUST believe that Repubs are greedy, selfish (kind of redundant, but ok) and racist. Ignore the real issues, because we've seen the Democratic party absolutely reduced to no solutions, no ideas, no plans...all they have is this class warfare shtick and one would think even the dumbest of schmucks will eventually wisen-up.

fish82;1248507 wrote:LOL @ those who seem to think this thing still isn't anyone's ballgame.

Absolutely. Even though the off shore bookies still slightly favor Obama, I think Romney wins. Unless a insider tax whistleblower comes forth with dirt on ole Mitt.

fish82;1248507 wrote:LOL @ those who seem to think this thing still isn't anyone's ballgame.

It shouldn't be. That's part of the problem.

fish82;1248507 wrote:LOL @ those who seem to think this thing still isn't anyone's ballgame.

Obama will win.

Weren't you the one that was convinced Perry would be the runaway Republican nominee and future President? I'm not sure political prognostication is in your wheelhouse