vball10set;1228075 wrote:to your point...

http://www.toledoblade.com/frontpage/2012/07/18/Genoa-ad-firm-flies-controversial-banner.html

I know a few people in Genoa. I think I need to ask them about this company to get some more information. Sounds like a decent business $$$ wise.

The Media isn't telling you anything is a "fact". The former head of the FBI is the one who telling you.

reclegend22;1227647 wrote:Sandusky's 1998 retirement had NOTHING to do with the investigation. It had to do with Paterno informing Sandusky that, because of Sandusky's inability to properly balance his time and efforts between PSU football and the Second Mile, and Paterno deciding to stay at the helm for several more years than expected, Sandusky was no longer in the running to become the next PSU head coach. If you'll look at the Freeh Report closer, you'll realize that Louis Freeh himself even affirms this fact. This is why Sandusky decided to opt out and take the retirement package that the state of Pennsylvania was offering at the time.

It's right there in the report. The media, however, has conveniently ignored this fact in its attempt to make Paterno appear as suspicious as possible.

Sandusky could have easily balanced his schedule with Second Mile if he hadn't spent so much time prepping his next Second Mile victim. He wasn't the only one that knew that. No coincidence that the 1998 incident and retiring at the pinnacle of his career at 54 comes in the same year?

FYI Paterno had the authority to have 4 Penn State Trustees of his "suggestion" on the the Board at all times.

sanitizer;1227796 wrote:I dont know who you are reclegend22 but you and I are in agreement with many of your posts on this thread. I really have a hard time with anything the media tells me is "fact", reading for yourself is the best bet to understanding the depth of this entire ordeal. if one wanted to take this a little further into the rhelm of "possible"? The retirement of Sandusky could have just given him more time to really focus on what it looks like his number one priority was? I would just add one thing to this thread as a man.... I don't question McQueary as a coach or low level employee, BUT I do question his MANHOOD!!! I don't care, I don't know any one man I call a friend that would or could walk by what he claims to have walked by and not made an effort to see what was happening and then if what he "thought" was happening was "actually" happening not act! It amazes me on a daily basis how men of action or a dying breed! Right is right, I understand that McQueary is not at all to blame for what has happened at Penn State but in my book of "men" he aint in it!!!

It's not the Media telling you "facts" in this instance, it's the former Director of the FBI.

Big Gain;1228283 wrote:It's not the Media telling you "facts" in this instance, it's the former Director of the FBI.

No, they aren't facts. A lot of the report is PURE GUESSWORK based on the incomplete information that was available. Stop spreading untruths. The fact of the matter is that Louis Freeh's entire assessment of the case is built around two ambiguous emails that might very well have been taken completely out of context. In fact, there is no context. What I find most appalling about the media and its swift and outrageous vilification of Paterno is that we still don't even know what the subject matter within the emails was even in regard to. Freeh just reasonably concludes that it was all about the investigation of Jerry Sandusky. It's laughable that people are mistaking that as fact.

Bottom line: Not anywhere does Louis Freeh and his research paper present any email or documented statement directly attributed to Paterno. It's all speculation. And it's terribly sad for the former coach and legend. He's a legend, albeit a tragic one, until proven guilty in my book.

Big Gain;1228281 wrote:Sandusky could have easily balanced his schedule with Second Mile if he hadn't spent so much time prepping his next Second Mile victim. He wasn't the only one that knew that. No coincidence that the 1998 incident and retiring at the pinnacle of his career at 54 comes in the same year?

Louis Freeh disagrees with you. He concluded that there was no connection at all between Sandusky's investigation and his decision to accept retirement, which stands as a big hole in Mr. Freeh's report because that finding only helps to disprove that Paterno knew in '98.

"No, they aren't facts. A lot of the report is PURE GUESSWORK based on the incomplete information that was available. "

By a law firm that understands that they have legal liability for incorrect reports. Why isn't the Paterno family suing them?

Your legend is a fraud.

some folks will find ways to rationalize the most abhorent conduct. Legend, a pathetic, self aggrandizing hypocrite who was an accomplice to untold child rapes.

Manhattan Buckeye;1228456 wrote:"No, they aren't facts. A lot of the report is PURE GUESSWORK based on the incomplete information that was available. "

By a law firm that understands that they have legal liability for incorrect reports. Why isn't the Paterno family suing them?

Your legend is a fraud.

I didn't say that Freeh misrepresented anything intentionally in the report. I said that he drew assumptions based off of incomplete information in order to arrive at his ultimate finding. He even admits this throughout with phrases such as "a reasonable conclusion would be that," etc. Until we are able to uncover the actual context of the two emails that stand as the cornerstone of Freeh's entire report, there is no concrete evidence that Paterno participated in a criminal coverup. It's simply conjecture.

While I feel for the victims most, I also feel for the Paterno family and the way their father is being publicly castigated as some sort of evil monster who deliberately harbored a sexual predator. When, in fact, the cold, hard evidence just isn't there. I can't even imagine this happening to my father. May Joe Paterno rest in peace.

If when all the facts are in this all turns out to be true in the end, I will sadly accept it and give Joe the blame he deserves. Until then, somebody needs to stand up for the man.

Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
For decades the USSR claimed innocence in the Katyn massacre of 10.000 Poles
Still the Turkish government claims innocence in the massacre of over million Armenians
Iran and others deny the Holocaust
Jay Paterno with the support of others claims his “legendary” father is innocent..

isadore;1228528 wrote:Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary
For decades the USSR claimed innocence in the Katyn massacre of 10.000 Poles
Still the Turkish government claims innocence in the massacre of over million Armenians
Iran and others deny the Holocaust
Jay Paterno with the support of others claims his “legendary” father is innocent..

Equating genocide to Joe Paterno, who has been found guilty of absolutely nothing criminally, is outrageously ridiculous.

many people never dropped a gas pellet but aided in the Holocaust
at Penn State joe did not rape a child, he aided it. Sandusky could have been stopped long ago without the support and protection of "the legend."

isadore;1228562 wrote:many people never dropped a gas pellet but aided in the Holocaust
at Penn State joe did not rape a child, he aided it. Sandusky could have been stopped long ago without the support and protection of "the legend."

There is no definitive proof that Paterno aided in a coverup. Read the report. The emails that the report utilizes (or one could argue manipulates) to form its final results do not offer anything except a possible theory as to what Paterno may or may not have knew. But, you are certainly entitled to your opinion just as am I.

Do you realize that this was PSU's investigation and the results are going to be detrimental to them when civil suits are brought to bear? This wasn't a third party investigation. This was PSU doing their own. Freeh was just the guy heading it for them.

Is reclegend Jay Paterno?

Sykotyk;1229329 wrote:Do you realize that this was PSU's investigation and the results are going to be detrimental to them when civil suits are brought to bear? This wasn't a third party investigation. This was PSU doing their own. Freeh was just the guy heading it for them.

Sounds like psu is trying to put blame on paterno since he died. No way to defend himself and helps save face. Smart move by penn st. But fucked up

Crimson streak;1229403 wrote:Sounds like psu is trying to put blame on paterno since he died. No way to defend himself and helps save face. Smart move by penn st. But ****ed up

This. Thanks for taking a step back and being objective, Crimson.

Paterno may end up as guilty as anyone, but, until I see something other than pure speculation proving Paterno as a conspirator -- "reasonableconclusions" are NOT facts -- I will continue to defend Mr. Paterno. Everyone, including Jerry Sandusky before his trial, deserves a just and fair judgement. But that's especially true of a man who served for 60 years as a coach, educator and man of unsurpassed integrity and honor.

Gosh a ruddies “the legend” who started Jerry Sandusky as a graduate assistant forty four years ago. Paterno then brought Sandusky back as an assistant in 1969. In 1977 he became the defensive coordinator, a position he held until his retirement in 1999. Paterno made Sandusky the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] most important figure at PSU.
1998 Sandusky was covered up and Sandusky was given a retirement package through Paterno’s effort that
both an unusual compensation package and a special designation of 'emeritus' rank that carried special privileges, including access to the university’s recreational facilities.and approved a lump-sum payment to Sandusky of $168,000. Then Joe went on help Sandusky by being the master of ceremonies at several fundraisers for his Second Mile Foundation. Nice work Mr. Legend.

isadore;1229591 wrote:Gosh a ruddies “the legend” who started Jerry Sandusky as a graduate assistant forty four years ago. Paterno then brought Sandusky back as an assistant in 1969. In 1977 he became the defensive coordinator, a position he held until his retirement in 1999. Paterno made Sandusky the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] most important figure at PSU.
1998 Sandusky was covered up and Sandusky was given a retirement package through Paterno’s effort that
both an unusual compensation package and a special designation of 'emeritus' rank that carried special privileges, including access to the university’s recreational facilities.and approved a lump-sum payment to Sandusky of $168,000. Then Joe went on help Sandusky by being the master of ceremonies at several fundraisers for his Second Mile Foundation. Nice work Mr. Legend.

Yes, because Paterno should have thought to ask Sandusky at the job interview in 1969 if Sandusky was ever planning to rape any children.

"So, Jerry, that just leaves one pertinent question. Are you a child rapist?"
"Yes."
"As long as it doesn't interfere with football, you've got the job."

isadore wrote:Sandusky was given a retirement package through Paterno’s effort that
both an unusual compensation package and a special designation of 'emeritus' rank that carried special privileges, including access to the university’s recreational facilities.and approved a lump-sum payment to Sandusky of $168,000.

First off, Paterno didn't have the authority to grant emeritus status -- the board did -- and he certainly didn't "approve" a lump-sum payment of $168,000. That was granted by Paterno's superiors and the PSU board. Even if Paterno did have a hand in that process, that was in 1998, before Paterno had any reason to suspect Sandusky of any criminal behavior. Paterno said he didn't know about the state investigation (the findings of which, by the way, determined Sandusky to be innocent and guilty of nothing). And there is still no concrete proof that Paterno did know. Besides all of that, as Freeh himself concludes in his report, Paterno increasingly wanted Sandusky to retire due to Sandusky not properly balancing his coaching duties with responsibilities at the Second Mile, so it would make sense that Paterno would push for giving Sandusky what he wanted.

Gosh a ruddies you are being disingenuous and acting like the legend was not the dominant individual on that campus. And the package was granted not in 1998 but in 1999 after the first revelations of his sexual assaults to Penn State. Again disingenuous if you believe that Paterno was not told of the investigation and that did not lead to the package. Perfectly arranged have the least interference with the football program preparation for its seasons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/13/sports/ncaafootball/13pennstate.html?_r=3&hp
The grand jury identified eight boys that had been singled out for sexual advances or sexual assaults by Sandusky, taking place from 1994 through 2009.
[5] At least 20 of the incidents allegedly took place while Sandusky was still employed at Penn State
http://articles.philly.com/2011-11-06/news/30366682_1_joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky-tim-curley
　
　
Consequently, out of the 10 young boys that Sandusky would be convicted of sexually assaulting, most of them were abused after he was investigated in 1998[37] — five of them were assaulted "at Penn State’s football facilities and other places on campus after May 1998"\
http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com./#!prettyPhoto
But the legend was unaware that his closest coaching associate was doing anything untoward. Oh yes and But forrner Director of the FBIs 8 month investigation commissioned by PSU with over 400 witnesses and tons of documentation presents the smoking gun of a conspiracy, but its not enough for you, because he couldn’t force the conspirators to give up their 5[SUP]th[/SUP] Amendment right to self incrimination, disingenuous.

isadore wrote:The grand jury identified eight boys that had been singled out for sexual advances or sexual assaults by Sandusky, taking place from 1994 through 2009.

It doesn't matter if Jerry Sandusky raped an entire school bus full of children in 1994; Joe Paterno had no reason at that time to believe that Sandusky was committing any such crimes, as Sandusky was obviously very covert in his activities until being found out by the school janitor and Mike McQueary.

And stop bringing up 1998. Even if Paterno did know about the investigation that year, which I don't believe he did (I'll choose to believe Paterno's testimony until actual facts come about and not a possible theory based on incomplete emails), state police and a state-issued child psychologist found Sandusky to be innocent of any wrongful behavior. So Paterno wouldn't have had anything to accuse Sandusky of based on the law.

reclegend22;1230000 wrote:It doesn't matter if Jerry Sandusky raped an entire school bus full of children in 1994; Joe Paterno had no reason at that time to believe that Sandusky was committing any such crimes, as Sandusky was obviously very covert in his activities until being found out by the school janitor and Mike McQueary.

And stop bringing up 1998. Even if Paterno did know about the investigation that year, which I don't believe he did (I'll choose to believe Paterno's testimony until actual facts come about and not a possible theory based on incomplete emails), state police and a state-issued child psychologist found Sandusky to be innocent of any wrongful behavior. So Paterno wouldn't have had anything to accuse Sandusky of based on the law.

Obviously to Paterno apologist it makes no difference if Jerry Sandusky raped a busload of children. Joe Paterno provided him with his favored site for child rape for a busload of times. There is no way he was not told about the charges in 1998, but he gave Sandusky access to the facilities to rape a busload of children, 2001 as e-mails show he orchestrated a coverup that allowed his buddy to continue on raping a busload of children. But to the apologists, the legend saw evil and heard no evil. For sure he said nothing about the evil while busloads of children were raped.

isadore wrote:2001 as e-mails show he orchestrated a coverup

The emails absolutely do not show that. They prove nothing. Show me where Joe Paterno is directly linked -- with 100% certainty -- to a coverup.

The idea that Joe Paterno willingly masterminded the coverup of a child sex ring is beyond ludicrous. For the media to keep propagating this concept with outrageous headlines to promote their sensationalized stories is not surprising, but disappointing and unfortunate. It's horrendous that Paterno is being characterized as a monster. The man deserves more than that.

gosh a ruddies. 100% certainty.
what have you and jay paterno been demanding that Freeh report prepared for PSU by the former director of the FBI who has
450 plus witnesses questioned, tons of email examined to show beyond a reasonable doubt the legend's guilt, was not enough
Jay and you demand testimony by Pres Spanier, VPSchultz and AD Currey.
Forgetting they can not be forced to give evidence against themselves even in a full legal proceeding.
And then the emails which for Americans have shown beyond reasonable doubt that the legend is guilty of a covering up massive case of child molestation and allowing it to continue unabated. But for Jay and you it is not enough.

There is absolutely reasonable doubt that Paterno is guilty of what he is accused. Not only do the emails presented in the Freeh Report offer virtually no context as to what they are in reference -- in one email Louis Freeh just guesses, just straight up guesses, that the subject of the message is the 1998 investigation -- but none of them are actually from Paterno himself. We don't even know if Curley or Shultz had actually talked with Paterno regarding these matters, or if they were simply name dropping "coach" as a way to get things accomplished quicker (this is just one possible scenario.)

The point is, there are too many gaping holes in the report to factually conclude that Paterno was a culprit. I'll say it again. The concept that Joe Paterno masterminded the whitewashing of a child sex operation is idiotic.