Why do you hate corporations?

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isadore

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7,762 posts
Jul 16, 2012 1:18 PM
Con_Alma;1226511 wrote:I have never suggested that was what is sad.

What's sad is the choices people make to make themselves dependent on others. Those are poor choices.
quite the opposite. when people were presented with an intolerable situation, people worked together to improve it.
Jul 16, 2012 1:18pm
C

Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Jul 16, 2012 1:31 PM
People wouldn't have been in an intolerable situation but for the choices they made.

They chose poorly.
Jul 16, 2012 1:31pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jul 16, 2012 1:55 PM
Con_Alma;1226528 wrote:People wouldn't have been in an intolerable situation but for the choices they made.

They chose poorly.
the large majority had no good choices available to them. Then they fought using the tools provided by our democracy to improve life for themselves and many others.
Jul 16, 2012 1:55pm
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Con_Alma

Senior Member

12,198 posts
Jul 16, 2012 1:58 PM
There are always choices. Always. They chose poorly.

Manufacturing was in the urban and city areas. They should have started a 2 year trek away from those cities. They chose to stay. They chose poorly.
Jul 16, 2012 1:58pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jul 16, 2012 2:24 PM
Con_Alma;1226551 wrote:There are always choices. Always. They chose poorly.

Manufacturing was in the urban and city areas. They should have started a 2 year trek away from those cities. They chose to stay. They chose poorly.
There are throughout life situations where there are no good choices. For them in their circumstance a (2 year?) trek was not a viable option.
Jul 16, 2012 2:24pm
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Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Jul 16, 2012 2:32 PM
Of course it's an option. It's an option they chose not to take. They put their security in the hands of another.

They chose poorly.
Jul 16, 2012 2:32pm
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jul 16, 2012 2:49 PM
Con_Alma;1226572 wrote:Of course it's an option. It's an option they chose not to take. They put their security in the hands of another.

They chose poorly.
they did not see it as an option. And then they fought to improve their situation.
Jul 16, 2012 2:49pm
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Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Jul 16, 2012 3:00 PM
isadore;1226582 wrote:they did not see it as an option. And then they fought to improve their situation.
Whether they saw it or not, it's an option. Ignorance is not an excuse.

When it comes to the basic necessities of life for your family, everything is an option until your dying day. Suggesting there's only one place to turn is simply not ever going to be acceptable when it comes to your family.

They chose poorly.
Jul 16, 2012 3:00pm
I

isadore

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7,762 posts
Jul 16, 2012 6:26 PM
Con_Alma;1226587 wrote:Whether they saw it or not, it's an option. Ignorance is not an excuse.

When it comes to the basic necessities of life for your family, everything is an option until your dying day. Suggesting there's only one place to turn is simply not ever going to be acceptable when it comes to your family.

They chose poorly.
Of course ignorance can be an excuse. If you are illiterate, non-English speaking you can have little or no idea of the choices available. But beside that what millions in the post bellum period were presented with was a choice of starvation or having their labor exploited by corporations. They chose the second. Then they used political action and the vote to improve their condition and better society.
Jul 16, 2012 6:26pm
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gut

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15,058 posts
Jul 16, 2012 6:43 PM
isadore;1226669 wrote:If you are illiterate, non-English speaking you can have little or no idea of the choices available.
Goshoruddles, who's to blame for that?!?
Jul 16, 2012 6:43pm
I

isadore

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7,762 posts
Jul 16, 2012 6:53 PM
gut;1226674 wrote:Goshoruddles, who's to blame for that?!?
gosh a ruddies when your fleeing starvation in italy, pogroms in russia I sure don't want to blame the immigrants, but I guess you would.
Jul 16, 2012 6:53pm
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gut

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15,058 posts
Jul 16, 2012 9:21 PM
isadore;1226679 wrote:gosh a ruddies when your fleeing starvation in italy, pogroms in russia I sure don't want to blame the immigrants, but I guess you would.
That's what happens when you have govts writing checks they can't cash. And if you don't want the same thing to happen in the US, you'd be for some fiscal responsbility. Or maybe when the handouts run out then those people go be immigrants somewhere else and the problem solves itself.
Jul 16, 2012 9:21pm
I

isadore

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7,762 posts
Jul 16, 2012 10:13 PM
gut;1226784 wrote:That's what happens when you have govts writing checks they can't cash. And if you don't want the same thing to happen in the US, you'd be for some fiscal responsbility. Or maybe when the handouts run out then those people go be immigrants somewhere else and the problem solves itself.
gosh a ruddies, now there we have one extended non sequiter contribution to the discussion.
Jul 16, 2012 10:13pm
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gut

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15,058 posts
Jul 17, 2012 12:15 AM
isadore;1226832 wrote:gosh a ruddies, now there we have one extended non sequiter contribution to the discussion.
'

Well, corporations need janitors, too. Is that back on point?
Jul 17, 2012 12:15am
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Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Jul 17, 2012 8:41 AM
isadore;1226669 wrote:Of course ignorance can be an excuse. If you are illiterate, non-English speaking you can have little or no idea of the choices available. But beside that what millions in the post bellum period were presented with was a choice of starvation or having their labor exploited by corporations. They chose the second. Then they used political action and the vote to improve their condition and better society.
Nope. My grandparents and father spoke zero English. That's not and excuse. My father was made fun of when he first started school Sorry, that' snot good enough.

The had the choice of leaving the city. They had the choice of creating their own food. They had the choice of never coming here. They chose poorly.
Jul 17, 2012 8:41am
I

isadore

Senior Member

7,762 posts
Jul 17, 2012 11:33 AM
gut;1226916 wrote:'

Well, corporations need janitors, too. Is that back on point?
partially.
Jul 17, 2012 11:33am
I

isadore

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Jul 17, 2012 11:37 AM
Con_Alma;1226975 wrote:Nope. My grandparents and father spoke zero English. That's not and excuse. My father was made fun of when he first started school Sorry, that' snot good enough.

The had the choice of leaving the city. They had the choice of creating their own food. They had the choice of never coming here. They chose poorly.
again your family chronicle is interesting and admirable but as is true of much anecdotal evidence, not reflective of the choices available to millions of others.
Jul 17, 2012 11:37am
C

Con_Alma

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12,198 posts
Jul 17, 2012 11:39 AM
isadore;1227079 wrote:again your family chronicle is interesting and admirable but as is true of much anecdotal evidence, not reflective of the choices available to millions of others.
It's not about my family as much as the fact that they had no more choices than anyone else. No one was restricted in making decisions. They were available to all.
Jul 17, 2012 11:39am
I

isadore

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7,762 posts
Jul 17, 2012 1:12 PM
Con_Alma;1227080 wrote:It's not about my family as much as the fact that they had no more choices than anyone else. No one was restricted in making decisions. They were available to all.
that is impossible to tell, whether the other folks had comparative level of skills and support that would have made that alternative possible. millions did not see it as a possible choice.
Jul 17, 2012 1:12pm
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O-Trap

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Jul 17, 2012 1:32 PM
I think the point was that the language difference, specifically, is not an impenetrable defeater.

Also, remember that whether or not a person sees a possible choice doesn't make it any more or less so.
Jul 17, 2012 1:32pm
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Con_Alma

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Jul 17, 2012 1:37 PM
isadore;1227138 wrote:that is impossible to tell, whether the other folks had comparative level of skills and support that would have made that alternative possible. millions did not see it as a possible choice.
With no support and no skills it is an option. Walking through the desert if need be to find open land in a more fertile area to provide your family the basic necessities of life in food clothing and shelter is what people do to survive when they are desperate.

Or they take their chances and place their security in that of an employer. We all make choices. Some are easy, desirable and are unfathomable.

We choose our path and it has consequences.
Jul 17, 2012 1:37pm
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isadore

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Jul 17, 2012 4:09 PM
O-Trap;1227155 wrote:I think the point was that the language difference, specifically, is not an impenetrable defeater.

Also, remember that whether or not a person sees a possible choice doesn't make it any more or less so.
really gosh, illiterate, non-English speaking, lacking skills and support, that limits your options. often to a Hobson's choice situation.
Jul 17, 2012 4:09pm
I

isadore

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Jul 17, 2012 4:13 PM
Con_Alma;1227158 wrote:With no support and no skills it is an option. Walking through the desert if need be to find open land in a more fertile area to provide your family the basic necessities of life in food clothing and shelter is what people do to survive when they are desperate.

Or they take their chances and place their security in that of an employer. We all make choices. Some are easy, desirable and are unfathomable.

We choose our path and it has consequences.
and looking for the yellow brick road to find the wizard is a choice, a choice for the delusional. Millions had no real choice but to work for the corporations.
And to repeat myself on the original topic, corporations are soulless, conscienceless, artifical entities.
Jul 17, 2012 4:13pm
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O-Trap

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Jul 17, 2012 5:30 PM
isadore;1227275 wrote:really gosh, illiterate, non-English speaking, lacking skills and support, that limits your options. often to a Hobson's choice situation.
That may or may not be true. It may seem like that to a larger group of people than it should, though.

For what it's worth, I think it's hard to discuss potential alternatives if they aren't recognized by those involved.
Jul 17, 2012 5:30pm
I

isadore

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Jul 17, 2012 6:14 PM
O-Trap;1227307 wrote:That may or may not be true. It may seem like that to a larger group of people than it should, though.

For what it's worth, I think it's hard to discuss potential alternatives if they aren't recognized by those involved.
don't you realize that all these poor immigrants from the farm and foreign nations are aware of all alternatives the world offers them. And if they do not they should be condemned for it.
Jul 17, 2012 6:14pm