Bought a Dispatch today which I almost never do. At the top of the sports sections, Antonetti had a quote where he stated that the team is going to lose a ton of money this year if the attendance pace continues.

Connecting the dots, I see Dolan unloading a pile of good players in order to make his nut. I've flip flopped on this debate. It's time to call a spade a spade. Our fans do in fact suck.

Spare me the crud that Dolan is cheap. Yup, he's cheap. But for 78 million in payroll, a contending team, the "fans" have voiced a collective "fuck you" to the ownership.

We were a great baeeball town 10 to 15 years ago. The economy here wasn't all that great back then either. What happened? Our attendance numbers are horrible. Inexcusably horrible.

I am the Chatter's biggest critic on the Ubaldo trade. Yes, we should have gone after Fister, who had a much better pitching record than Ubaldo. Or as others pointed out, landing Pence would have been a great deal. As bad as that trade was, Antonetti has made some awesome trades. We have an All Star combo as SS/2nd, and 2 of the best relief pitchers in all of baseball.

With that said, we are short on talent in winning a title. With even a semblance of fan interest, I believe Dolan would make another "play" for buying instead of selling in a month. But as Antonetti put it in the CD newspaper, the team is losing a ton of money.

Sizemore and Hafner need to get off the books...the sooner the better. Santana, Kipnis, Astrubal, Brantley, Choo, Vinnie and Perez need to be locked up. If they are not locked up, then I think it is time for the tribe fans go look in the mirror and accept most of the blame. And I would have never have said that even 2 months ago.

Here is a great article that pretty much sums things up for me.

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2012/05/there_is_more_to_the_cleveland.html

They have been fucked by awful weather when they are home also. The attendance would still be bad, but they have hardly had any nice days in Aprli and May at home.

Footwedge;1195540 wrote:We were a great baeeball town 10 to 15 years ago. The economy here wasn't all that great back then either. What happened? Our attendance numbers are horrible. Inexcusably horrible.

Tribe was also the only game in town. Cavs were pitiful. Browns were gone. Tribe was the only team fans had to budget their money for. Had the Browns been around back then, and somewhat successful, "455" is a pipe dream.

reps wedge. I have come to the same conclusion. I have been one of the biggest critcs in the off season for the front office not going out and getting a big RH bat, but they could have spent and I don't think it would have made a difference. Josh Willingham would have been a great addition...but how many extra seats would that have sold? I used to admnister a full season (4 seats) plan for a group of guys....but 5 guys dropped and now it's just 2 of us splitting a pair of tickets. While I think ownership has some share of the blame, the trades/deals we hated so much has turned in to a young contending team, Sizemore, Carmona, Hafner, not withstanding. It's time to get over the Lee and Martinez deals and come back to the ballpark. The front office obviously knows what it is doing even if us idiots don't think so. There is no excuse about weather now. Perez called us out on this, and he was right.

well its nothing new. going on 10 years now near the bottom.

2001- 4 (attendance) 89-71x
2002- 12 74-88
2003- 24 68-94
2004- 25 80-81
2005- 24 93-69
2006- 25 78-84
2007- 21 97-66x
2008- 22 81-81
2009- 25 65-97
2010- 30 69-93
2011- 24 80-82
2012- 30 32-27

HitsRus;1195582 wrote:reps wedge. I have come to the same conclusion. I have been one of the biggest critcs in the off season for the front office not going out and getting a big RH bat, but they could have spent and I don't think it would have made a difference. Josh Willingham would have been a great addition...but how many extra seats would that have sold? I used to admnister a full season (4 seats) plan for a group of guys....but 5 guys dropped and now it's just 2 of us splitting a pair of tickets. While I think ownership has some share of the blame, the trades/deals we hated so much has turned in to a young contending team, Sizemore, Carmona, Hafner, not withstanding. It's time to get over the Lee and Martinez deals and come back to the ballpark. The front office obviously knows what it is doing even if us idiots don't think so. There is no excuse about weather now. Perez called us out on this, and he was right.

Well, the trades didnt really help. CC and Lee have provided Michael Brantley, Laporta, Carrasco, Rob Bryson, Zach Jackson, Jason Knapp, Marson and Donald. Those were still awful, and those are the ones the fans still hate the ownership for.

We got more for the lesser trades (and Victor).

The "fans" never have to go if they don't want to. It's not their obligation. If people want to go see this team and like the experience, they should go. If they don't, they owe the ownership and players nothing.

Maybe they enjoy the team and experience but the prices have reached a point of diminishing returns. It's always the consumers choice.

BR1986FB;1195567 wrote:Tribe was also the only game in town. Cavs were pitiful. Browns were gone. Tribe was the only team fans had to budget their money for. Had the Browns been around back then, and somewhat successful, "455" is a pipe dream.

I get your point, but the Tribe and Browns seasons don't really coincide. Those 90's teams would have seen sellouts regardless just because of how dominate they were and the star power they had.

Con_Alma;1195666 wrote:The "fans" never have to go if they don't want to. It's not their obligation. If people want to go see this team and like the experience, they should go. If they don't, they owe the ownership and players nothing.

Maybe they enjoy the team and experience but the prices have reached a point of diminishing returns. It's always the consumers choice.

As a business owner or business executive of a company that has a product, it is your job to manufacture a product that people want to buy. The consumer has no obligation to buy your product just because you think it is good enough.

If they are contending in mid August through September you will see some great attendance.

Hits said this:

The front office obviously knows what it is doing even if us idiots don't think so. There is no excuse about weather now. Perez called us out on this, and he was right.

1 playoff trip since 2002. It hasn't been that great. Haven't threatened to make the playoffs since 2007.

TBone14;1195697 wrote:As a business owner or business executive of a company that has a product, it is your job to manufacture a product that people want to buy. The consumer has no obligation to buy your product just because you think it is good enough.

If they are contending in mid August through September you will see some great attendance.

Hits said this:



1 playoff trip since 2002. It hasn't been that great. Haven't threatened to make the playoffs since 2007.

Exactly.

Was up there a week ago Saturday and was shocked to only see about 25,000...on a fireworks night, no less.

I do understand what footwedge and hitsrus are saying, BUT at the end of the day this is what you're doing:

Blaming the consumer for exercising their choice not to spend money. I can't agree with that.

hoops23;1195672 wrote:I get your point, but the Tribe and Browns seasons don't really coincide. Those 90's teams would have seen sellouts regardless just because of how dominate they were and the star power they had.

It's got nothing to do with coinciding. If the economy isn't great, and you want to enjoy sports in person, gotta pick your poison. Do you pay the piper for Browns season tickets or go to Tribe games?

Laley23;1195562 wrote:They have been ****ed by awful weather when they are home also. The attendance would still be bad, but they have hardly had any nice days in Aprli and May at home.

:laugh:You born yesterday bud? When has the weather ever been good in the Midwest in April and May? Ironically this has been one of the nicest springs of all time too

hoops23;1195672 wrote:I get your point, but the Tribe and Browns seasons don't really coincide. Those 90's teams would have seen sellouts regardless just because of how dominate they were and the star power they had.

This. In the pre-season once Prince was picked up the tickets for the Tigers went like crazy. When they went on sale March 2nd at 10 AM I had to wait an hour to get onto the site to get tickets because of the server overload. Basically all the tickets were sold out after that day

It's embarrassing, but I agree with Con_Alma(what else is new?).

People are stuck on name recognition. They whine and say that they do not have star power, but their young middle infield has one of the brighter futures in the league. Look at Kipnis' stats. He might be the best 2B in the league right now. Santana is young and will only get better. Choo and Chisenhall both warrant a look as well.

Just because the guys are your team werent stars in 2005 doesnt mean you don't have big time talent.

Some of it has to do with the mass exodus out of Clevelad as well. I know I'll go home for a Browns game, but I wont go home for a Tribe game. I go see the Tribe on the road now.

BR1986FB;1195783 wrote:It's got nothing to do with coinciding. If the economy isn't great, and you want to enjoy sports in person, gotta pick your poison. Do you pay the piper for Browns season tickets or go to Tribe games?

I don't buy season tickets.. I pick and choose which games I go to. To answer your question, I go to many more Indians games than Browns obviously..

The economy is bad everywhere and you can;t truly use population as a key because the Cleveland metro area is still in the top 15 by a good margin. I live an hour away and go to multiple games and I know many people who do as well, either with single game tix, partial season tix, or full season plans..

The Cavs didn't have any problems selling out for a good stretch while they were good. We'll never see 455 again, but there is no reason a good team wouldn't enjoy 30k+ on a nightly basis.

I'm a Tribe fan who hasn't been in years(maybe 8 years now). I have been to a Browns game almost every year because football is king.

sleeper;1195927 wrote:I'm a Tribe fan who hasn't been in years(maybe 8 years now). I have been to a Browns game almost every year because football is king.

SMH sleeper, you haven't been since you were 17? That's pathetic.

Commander of Awesome;1195909 wrote:Some of it has to do with the mass exodus out of Clevelad as well. I know I'll go home for a Browns game, but I wont go home for a Tribe game. I go see the Tribe on the road now.

This. I don't live in NE Ohio anymore, so I'm going to the Reds game tomorrow.

Commander of Awesome;1195936 wrote:SMH sleeper, you haven't been since you were 17? That's pathetic.

I'm really not a huge baseball fan. I don't live in Cleveland either, so when I do come into town I'd rather watch a Browns game.

Classyposter58;1195849 wrote::laugh:You born yesterday bud? When has the weather ever been good in the Midwest in April and May? Ironically this has been one of the nicest springs of all time too

I know, and Im saying that the nicest days we have had in Cleveland in April and May they were on the road. Indians were in first place which was a surprise and had a big series. They get 2 rain delays and a noon game. Then it was back on the road and the weather was nice again. Every day it rained those months, the Tribe was at home and delayed.

sleeper;1195942 wrote:I'm really not a huge baseball fan. I don't live in Cleveland either, so when I do come into town I'd rather watch a Browns game.

Yet you rail on BR, makes sense. /sarcasm.