sleeper;1160360 wrote:Do they come with a computer, cell phone, 2 TVs and cable TV too?

The majority of "poor" individuals don't have those things. There seems to be a steep drop off between Refrigerator and everything else, which should be obvious, then another steep drop off between AC and cable, which is also pretty obvious. What was unexpected about those numbers to people?

jmog;1160211 wrote:Proof of untold suffering?

It may just force people to go get a job instead of living on unemployment.

It also wouldn't save a dime on my taxes as I am not for any more tax cuts RIGHT NOW.

Leave taxes where they are, lower spending to balance the budget, THEN raise my taxes to pay off the debt.

In a perfect world that is what politicians would do.

you already said you want to do cuts on people on social security, handicapped, dependent children. We got the unemployed in an economy restarting, yeh cutting their payments to 6 months, and on the single parent families, cut their tanf and food stamps,

Suffering on an untold scale.

isadore;1158981 wrote:he made a mistake in not ending the tax cuts for the rich during his first two years, instead of first going for his healthcare plan. But Romney would have pushed more tax cuts for the rich further pushing our maldistribution of wealth.

I don't think assuming what you think Romney would have done and what Obama actually did is a good way to try and make an argument in favor of Obama. You don't know what Romney would have done, you only think you know. We know what Obama did.....he extended the tax cuts. The one smart thing he could have done if he also would have cut spending drastically.

dwccrew;1160414 wrote:I don't think assuming what you think Romney would have done and what Obama actually did is a good way to try and make an argument in favor of Obama. You don't know what Romney would have done, you only think you know. We know what Obama did.....he extended the tax cuts. The one smart thing he could have done if he also would have cut spending drastically.

we can assume based on what Romney has said he will do.
Well lets see, his plan to fight recession is to cut taxes with the biggest percentage cuts coming to the top tax bracket. Eliminate estate tax. In what debate he wanted to lower the top tax rate to 20%.
http://money.cnn.com//2012/02/22/news/economy/romney_taxes/index.htm?section=money_news_economy&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_news_economy+%28Economy+News%29

2kool4skool;1160327 wrote:I had literally $0 to my name in college and had a refrigerator, microwave, and AC. Most rented apartments come with a refrigerator, a microwave costs $40, and AC is pretty essential in summer months.

How is that picture at all surprising or indicative of whether poor people "have it good?"

I don't pay attention to the refrigerator, AC, microwave, etc talk in those discussions for the reason you stated. However, the cable TV, cell phones, more than 2 TVs, PCs, etc show's that our "poor" aren't doing nearly as bad as the ultra lefties portray.

isadore;1160384 wrote:you already said you want to do cuts on people on social security, handicapped, dependent children. We got the unemployed in an economy restarting, yeh cutting their payments to 6 months, and on the single parent families, cut their tanf and food stamps,

Suffering on an untold scale.

Show me where I said I wanted cuts on SS, handicapped, etc?

Read my post again, if you can, I said I don't really count SS as a 'hand out' since most of the people on it paid into the system. I was talking actual entitlements.

jmog;1160980 wrote:I don't pay attention to the refrigerator, AC, microwave, etc talk in those discussions for the reason you stated. However, the cable TV, cell phones, more than 2 TVs, PCs, etc show's that our "poor" aren't doing nearly as bad as the ultra lefties portray.

basic cable is hardly a luxury, cell phones at a time when land lines and pay phones being eliminated are a necessity, when we talk tvs the price of small sets can be less than $100, as with used pcs, much of what is discussed are basics. The Republicans wont we happy until we bring back the dickensian workhouses.

lol, unbelieveable charles dickens, author of oliver twist, etc, etc

isadore;1161050 wrote:basic cable is hardly a luxury, cell phones at a time when land lines and pay phones being eliminated are a necessity, when we talk tvs the price of small sets can be less than $100, as with used pcs, much of what is discussed are basics. The Republicans wont we happy until we bring back the dickensian workhouses.

What have these poor done to deserve anything? Why do they deserve to take from those that do work and do contribute while they sit on their ass all day watching Oprah?

jmog;1160983 wrote:Show me where I said I wanted cuts on SS, handicapped, etc?

Read my post again, if you can, I said I don't really count SS as a 'hand out' since most of the people on it paid into the system. I was talking actual entitlements.

First you can define terms as you wish when you are talking yourself, but out in the outside world terms have generally accepted definitions. An entitlement is a guarantee of access to
benefits based on established rights or by legislation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement The two leading entitlements paid provided by the US government are Social Security and Medicare.
And when you write

jmog wrote:Show me where I said I wanted cuts on SS, handicapped, etc?

What does this mean then

jmog wrote:I am not counting SS, I believe the system needs major reform,

Well lets see, its either cutting recipients, cutting benefits or raising payroll taxes.

sleeper;1161054 wrote:What have these poor done to deserve anything? Why do they deserve to take from those that do work and do contribute while they sit on their ass all day watching Oprah?

it must be hard going through life with a hole where your heart should be.

isadore;1161080 wrote:it must be hard going through life with a hole where your heart should be.

Nice dodge. You didn't answer my question. How does it feel to be poor?

isadore;1161050 wrote:basic cable is hardly a luxury,

Please explain this? I would say having a tv with OTA broadcasts isn't a luxury. There is a reason that cable is one of the first things people get rid of when they are cutting their bills trying to save money.

isadore;1161080 wrote:it must be hard going through life with a hole where your heart should be.

There is nothing more noble than getting somone off of welfare and making them self-sufficient. There is nothing in perpetual handouts that achieves this noble goal. The left would do well to stop preaching about 'heart' and start to actually THINK about real solutions that will cause the 'downtrodden' to reach their capabilities. But that will probably not happen because the left has made a profitable industry for itself in keeping people jailed in the dependency state. Congrat's.

isadore;1161050 wrote:basic cable is hardly a luxury, cell phones at a time when land lines and pay phones being eliminated are a necessity, when we talk tvs the price of small sets can be less than $100, as with used pcs, much of what is discussed are basics. The Republicans wont we happy until we bring back the ****ensian workhouses.

basic cable is a luxury since all TV stations still broadcast over the air and the government gave digital receivers away for free to the 'poor'. Land lines are still a required commodity, so your reasoning fails on why cell phones are necessity. TVs, PCs, etc are luxuries but you didn't dispute that.

No, republicans don't want to "take away" peoples stuff, it is just the opposite, the Rs are saying 'take away just enough of my crap to make sure people have their basic needs taken care of , but don't take away my crap and give luxuries to people. THAT is socialism'.

Taking care of peoples needs who are less fortunate is supported by conservatives, taking away from the rich to give luxuries to people in the name of "fairness" and redistribution is what modern liberals are clamming for.

isadore;1161077 wrote:First you can define terms as you wish when you are talking yourself, but out in the outside world terms have generally accepted definitions. An entitlement is a guarantee of access to
benefits based on established rights or by legislation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement The two leading entitlements paid provided by the US government are Social Security and Medicare.
And when you write

What does this mean then
Well lets see, its either cutting recipients, cutting benefits or raising payroll taxes.
[/SIZE]

You can keep your head in the sand about SS and believe it will last forever when it has been proven that it won't, or we can reform the system as it is. Maybe it involves raising the retirement age for younger people, therefore not affecting those receiving benefits now. Maybe it involves restoring the 'tax cut' that Obama put into SS that no one even notices they have. Either way the system needs fixed or it will be insolvent. You can NOT deny this fact.

jmog;1160980 wrote: However, the cable TV, cell phones, more than 2 TVs, PCs, etc show's that our "poor" aren't doing nearly as bad as the ultra lefties portray.

That is a minority of the poor. Perhaps there is a cut off somewhere within the "poor" demographic the picture measures(meaning somewhere between $0 and 21k in income.). What % of those with cable, two+ tv's, etc. are near the top of the bracket they've outlined as poor? There are 20% of people that can't even afford a microwave, where do they fall?

In short: that picture sucks and doesn't really tell us anything.

2kool4skool;1161425 wrote:That is a minority of the poor. Perhaps there is a cut off somewhere within the "poor" demographic the picture measures(meaning somewhere between $0 and 21k in income.). What % of those with cable, two+ tv's, etc. are near the top of the bracket they've outlined as poor? There are 20% of people that can't even afford a microwave, where do they fall?

In short: that picture sucks and doesn't really tell us anything.

ie. Those aren't guaranteed needs for anyone. If you want things, get a job. If you don't want to work, you don't get any money.

Problem solved.

sleeper;1161111 wrote:Nice dodge. You didn't answer my question. How does it feel to be poor?

I did answer your question, you just didnt like the answer. Most people develop a sense of empathy and compassion for those around them. It is part of the socialization process. We want to help those in need in our society, it serves them and it makes America a better place to live in. If you want to know how it feels to be poor, go ask a poor person.

isadore;1161428 wrote:I did answer your question, you just didnt like the answer. Most people develop a sense of empathy and compassion for those around them. It is part of the socialization process. We want to help those in need in our society, it serves them and it makes America a better place to live in. If you want to know how it feels to be poor, go ask a poor person.

I don't have any sympathy for the lazy people who don't want to work and just want to take from those that do.

jmog;1161196 wrote:You can keep your head in the sand about SS and believe it will last forever when it has been proven that it won't, or we can reform the system as it is. Maybe it involves raising the retirement age for younger people, therefore not affecting those receiving benefits now. Maybe it involves restoring the 'tax cut' that Obama put into SS that no one even notices they have. Either way the system needs fixed or it will be insolvent. You can NOT deny this fact.

gosh I guess you didnt' really mean any of this

jmog wrote:Show me where I said I wanted cuts on SS, handicapped, etc?

Read my post again, if you can, I said I don't really count SS as a 'hand out' since most of the people on it paid into the system. I was talking actual entitlements.

gee whiz lets see how we can save it. I got it. Let remove the regressive feature of the Social Security Tax. Gosh they only take the tax from the first $110,100 dollars of your income. Anything above that is free. What a free ride for the rich. I bet if we continued the same tax rate over all their income that would do wonders for system. Maybe we wouldn't have to make all those draconian cuts you are hoping for. And gosh you guys like a flat tax, lets try it on social security.

isadore;1161442 wrote:gosh I guess you didnt' really mean any of this
gee whiz lets see how we can save it. I got it. Let remove the regressive feature of the Social Security Tax. Gosh they only take the tax from the first $110,100 dollars of your income. Anything above that is free. What a free ride for the rich. I bet if we continued the same tax rate over all their income that would do wonders for system. Maybe we wouldn't have to make all those draconian cuts you are hoping for. And gosh you guys like a flat tax, lets try it on social security.

Anyone who makes more than you is "rich". Sounds awesome.

jmog;1161192 wrote:basic cable is a luxury since all TV stations still broadcast over the air and the government gave digital receivers away for free to the 'poor'. Land lines are still a required commodity, so your reasoning fails on why cell phones are necessity. TVs, PCs, etc are luxuries but you didn't dispute that.

No, republicans don't want to "take away" peoples stuff, it is just the opposite, the Rs are saying 'take away just enough of my crap to make sure people have their basic needs taken care of , but don't take away my crap and give luxuries to people. THAT is socialism'.

Taking care of peoples needs who are less fortunate is supported by conservatives, taking away from the rich to give luxuries to people in the name of "fairness" and redistribution is what modern liberals are clamming for.

what a load, all you want to do, is find ways to punish people who have fallen on hard times. To deprive them of basics to have any quality of life in our society. Maybe we can have them and their kids where a scarlet P so we can shun them. A TV, a PC, a cellphone are basics in our society. Depriving people of them is just an exercise in demeaning the poor for the personal pleasure of those that have. Land lines are disappearing and cell phones are often a less expensive alternative. That makes no difference, you prefer your pound of flesh.

isadore;1161453 wrote:what a load, all you want to do, is find ways to punish people who have fallen on hard times. To deprive them of basics to have any quality of life in our society. Maybe we can have them and their kids where a scarlet P so we can shun them. A TV, a PC, a cellphone are basics in our society. Depriving people of them is just an exercise in demeaning the poor for the personal pleasure of those that have. Land lines are disappearing and cell phones are often a less expensive alternative. That makes no difference, you prefer your pound of flesh.

CABLE tv is not a basic. If anything, OTA is. Why do you go from saying "cable" to now saying "TV" in general?

LJ;1161159 wrote:Please explain this? I would say having a tv with OTA broadcasts isn't a luxury. There is a reason that cable is one of the first things people get rid of when they are cutting their bills trying to save money.

my statement on that is just based on local consideration, it is hard here to pick up stations in this rural area without cable or satelitte