SportsAndLady
Posts: 35,632
May 1, 2012 8:47am
I don't understand the "take a breath" comment...I'm on here like I always am, it's just normally I'm good w/ whatever the Browns do. Now that I'm somewhat critical, I need to take a step back? What's the point of a forum if you can't get on here and voice an opinion? We ALL don't agree, so lets just all agree to disagree, and move on. We'll see who is right eventually.BR1986FB;1158465 wrote:Kinda makes you wonder when "fanhood" gets questioned for never attending a game too? Hmmmm.....I have no issue with you questioning/scrutinizing their draft but dude....take a breath. You've been a Browns fan HOW long? You're better than that. We ALL are. Things WILL get better.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
May 1, 2012 9:00am
So how long before these "starters" start producing wins and Playoff appearances? How much longer should we be patient?BR1986FB;1158484 wrote:Definitely...that's why I don't have an issue with S&L being "skeptical" but there's no need for a meltdown. We haven't even seen these kids play in the NFL yet. Hell, Weeden's already getting "hate" tweets from our "classy" :rolleyes: fans.
Heckert's first year he got three starters (four if you count the time McCoy had under center), year two he got 4-5 and this year he got at least 3, possibly up to 5...that's pretty solid if you ask me.
It's no secret that I wasn't on the Colt McCoy bandwagon but even if they had gone into this season with him at QB I still would've watched. I wouldn't have liked it but I would've watched.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 1, 2012 9:05am
Hey, I understand. I've suffered as long as anybody. H&H were dealt a shitty hand by Mangini and are now digging out of it (shit the bed on THREE 2nd rounders). They ARE cutting off their own noses to spite their face by neglecting free agency though. No need to go all "Redskins crazy" in FA but they could've added a few KEY pieces (Eric Winston was NOT an option) that they could've maybe used other picks on in the draft.Skyhook79;1158532 wrote:So how long before these "starters" start producing wins and Playoff appearances? How much longer should we be patient?
Teams like the Bengals are fortunate to get an Andy Dalton & AJ Green and BOOM, they turn it around in one year. They also had a very solid defense before those two were drafted. The Browns aren't so lucky.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
May 1, 2012 9:09am
The Browns have had a very solid defense the last few years also. I would also argue that H&H have "shit the bed" on 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders also.BR1986FB;1158534 wrote:Hey, I understand. I've suffered as long as anybody. H&H were dealt a shitty hand by Mangini and are now digging out of it (shit the bed on THREE 2nd rounders). They ARE cutting off their own noses to spite their face by neglecting free agency though. No need to go all "Redskins crazy" in FA but they could've added a few KEY pieces (Eric Winston was NOT an option) that they could've maybe used other picks on in the draft.
Teams like the Bengals are fortunate to get an Andy Dalton & AJ Green and BOOM, they turn it around in one year. They also had a very solid defense before those two were drafted. The Browns aren't so lucky.
Rotinaj
Posts: 7,699
May 1, 2012 9:21am
What first rounders have been bad?Skyhook79;1158537 wrote:The Browns have had a very solid defense the last few years also. I would also argue that H&H have "shit the bed" on 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders also.
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 1, 2012 9:21am
What 1st rounder have been bad since H&H came here? Haden, above average....Taylor good/solid DT? Can't judge T-Rich or Weeden as they haven't played a down. 2nd rounders? I'll give you TJ Ward as the jury is still out on him, imo but Sheard & Little are both good players. 3rd round I'd tend to agree.Skyhook79;1158537 wrote:The Browns have had a very solid defense the last few years also. I would also argue that H&H have "shit the bed" on 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders also.
Browns defense didn't come into it's own until Jauron arrived. The Bengals defense was solid before that.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
May 1, 2012 9:49am
Haden is not above average for a 7th overall pick and Taylor is also not worthy of his 21st overall pick. I would also argue that Jauron took over a defense from Rob Ryan that was pretty good. You say you can't judge this years picks but they could have had Decastro and Hill/Jeffery those type of players are not there every year where Weeden,Schwartz and Hughes types are.BR1986FB;1158543 wrote:What 1st rounder have been bad since H&H came here? Haden, above average....Taylor good/solid DT? Can't judge T-Rich or Weeden as they haven't played a down. 2nd rounders? I'll give you TJ Ward as the jury is still out on him, imo but Sheard & Little are both good players. 3rd round I'd tend to agree.
Browns defense didn't come into it's own until Jauron arrived. The Bengals defense was solid before that.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
May 1, 2012 9:58am
I don't think Haden was 100% after his injury this season, but he has the potential to be an All-Pro CB imo. Who would have have taken that draft instead of Haden?Skyhook79;1158564 wrote:Haden is not above average for a 7th overall pick and Taylor is also not worthy of his 21st overall pick. I would also argue that Jauron took over a defense from Rob Ryan that was pretty good. You say you can't judge this years picks but they could have had Decastro and Hill/Jeffery those type of players are not there every year where Weeden,Schwartz and Hughes types are.
OneBuckeye
Posts: 5,888
May 1, 2012 10:03am
So I missed pretty much the whole draft reaction etc from the OC. All these threads are tl;dr. Can someone summarize the general Browns draft reaction to our picks from the second round on?
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 1, 2012 10:06am
Gotta disagree on Decastro. He's good but the Bengals got just as good a player in Zeitler by trading down. Decastro is very good but far from elite. A little more athletic that Zeitler.Skyhook79;1158564 wrote:Haden is not above average for a 7th overall pick and Taylor is also not worthy of his 21st overall pick. I would also argue that Jauron took over a defense from Rob Ryan that was pretty good. You say you can't judge this years picks but they could have had Decastro and Hill/Jeffery those type of players are not there every year where Weeden,Schwartz and Hughes types are.
Wanted NO part of Jeffrey. Brings the exact same skillset as Greg Little...big, not so fast WR....we have enough of them. Hill was intriguing but that's about it of the players you mentioned.
Decastro was NEVER an option. You want to imply "filling holes" yet you duplicate filling a position (Decastro) that doesn't need filled? The needs were RB/WR/QB/RT. They got three out of four starters with this draft.
Selecting Decastro at 22 still leaves a hole at RT since he's not playing it. They are comfortable with Pinkston at LG and he improved significantly as the season went on. Unless you're an Oneil Cousins fan and wanted to roll with him at RT?
like_that
Posts: 26,625
May 1, 2012 10:07am
OneBuckeye;1158577 wrote:So I missed pretty much the whole draft reaction etc from the OC. All these threads are tl;dr. Can someone summarize the general Browns draft reaction to our picks from the second round on?
se-alum
Posts: 13,948
May 1, 2012 10:31am
I think Decastro is going to be an all-pro, but he really didn't fill a need unless he was going to move to RT, which some pundits said he could do. I'm done 2nd guessing the draft, I just want to see how it turns out in the end.BR1986FB;1158580 wrote:Gotta disagree on Decastro. He's good but the Bengals got just as good a player in Zeitler by trading down. Decastro is very good but far from elite. A little more athletic that Zeitler.
Wanted NO part of Jeffrey. Brings the exact same skillset as Greg Little...big, not so fast WR....we have enough of them. Hill was intriguing but that's about it of the players you mentioned.
Decastro was NEVER an option. You want to imply "filling holes" yet you duplicate filling a position (Decastro) that doesn't need filled? The needs were RB/WR/QB/RT. They got three out of four starters with this draft.
Selecting Decastro at 22 still leaves a hole at RT since he's not playing it. They are comfortable with Pinkston at LG and he improved significantly as the season went on. Unless you're an Oneil Cousins fan and wanted to roll with him at RT?
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
May 1, 2012 10:32am
Skyhook79;1158564 wrote:Haden is not above average for a 7th overall pick and Taylor is also not worthy of his 21st overall pick. I would also argue that Jauron took over a defense from Rob Ryan that was pretty good. You say you can't judge this years picks but they could have had Decastro and Hill/Jeffery those type of players are not there every year where Weeden,Schwartz and Hughes types are.
shook_17
Posts: 3,023
May 1, 2012 12:43pm
lol you are a fucking idiot. haden is on the brink of being elite. if he is healthy this year watch out. shit last year he wasn't healthy and led the league in passes broken up.Skyhook79;1158564 wrote:Haden is not above average for a 7th overall pick and Taylor is also not worthy of his 21st overall pick. I would also argue that Jauron took over a defense from Rob Ryan that was pretty good. You say you can't judge this years picks but they could have had Decastro and Hill/Jeffery those type of players are not there every year where Weeden,Schwartz and Hughes types are.
hoops23
Posts: 15,696
May 1, 2012 2:38pm
God. Now I'm reading that Haden isn't even above average and Phil Taylor wasn't worth the 21st pick...
Sometimes, I think our fan base is worse than the actual team.
Sometimes, I think our fan base is worse than the actual team.
like_that
Posts: 26,625
May 1, 2012 2:45pm
Failhook is not part of the Browns fan base, he is just a dipshit. Whenever the Browns will be good again, that is when you can count him as part of the fan base.hoops23;1158819 wrote:God. Now I'm reading that Haden isn't even above average and Phil Taylor wasn't worth the 21st pick...
Sometimes, I think our fan base is worse than the actual team.
royal_k
Posts: 4,423
May 1, 2012 2:47pm
Yeah, I had to laugh at the Haden post as well. He's in the upper list of NFL corners and will only get better.
shook_17
Posts: 3,023
May 1, 2012 2:51pm
lol reps hoops
and S&L its rack city bitch. not rep city :thumbup:
and S&L its rack city bitch. not rep city :thumbup:
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BR1986FB
Posts: 24,104
May 1, 2012 2:55pm
I thought Haden had a down year in 2011 but it's safe to say he's "above average."
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
May 1, 2012 3:06pm
shook_17;1158724 wrote:lol you are a fucking idiot. haden is on the brink of being elite. if he is healthy this year watch out. shit last year he wasn't healthy and led the league in passes broken up.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=1&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_BACK&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_PASSES_INT_DEFENSED
Not #1 according to this.
How many interceptions did he have? "On the brink of Elite" how many times have I heard that phrase when talking about a Browns player?
Y-Town Steelhound
Posts: 1,388
May 1, 2012 4:25pm
Lol at the Haden stuff. Teams didn't throw his way last year when they could throw to Sheldon Brown's side. Regardless of the this perceived "lack of talent" in the secondary, all of the injuries, and the ineptitude of the offense leaving them on the field all the time the Browns still managed to have a top 10 pass defense (and please don't try to use the "well well that's because they had such a bad run defense! excuse...it's pathetic and baseless). If you don't think Haden contributed to that you're smoking some of Cleveland's finest crack.
Skyhook79
Posts: 5,739
May 1, 2012 4:35pm
Nice to throw that in there when it is a fact that teams ran all over the Browns and rushed the ball more times against the Browns than any other team except the Colts and teams threw on the Browns fewer times than any other team except the Chiefs. Teams didn't need to throw because the Browns had the 31 st ranked rush defense. What are you smoking?Y-Town Steelhound;1158940 wrote:Lol at the Haden stuff. Teams didn't throw his way last year when they could throw to Sheldon Brown's side. Regardless of the this perceived "lack of talent" in the secondary, all of the injuries, and the ineptitude of the offense leaving them on the field all the time the Browns still managed to have a top 10 pass defense (and please don't try to use the "well well that's because they had such a bad run defense! excuse...it's pathetic and baseless). If you don't think Haden contributed to that you're smoking some of Cleveland's finest crack.
DeyDurkie5
Posts: 11,324
May 1, 2012 4:52pm
idiot people
Y-Town Steelhound
Posts: 1,388
May 1, 2012 5:16pm
But it's a PASSING LEAGUE. The Browns poor run defense certainly contributed (actually your statistics are off. The Browns had the 3rd most rush attempts against behind only St. Louis and Tampa.) but teams also didn't throw because the Browns pass defense is actually good. Again, this doesn't even factor in the fact that the defense was constantly on the field.Skyhook79;1158948 wrote:Nice to throw that in there when it is a fact that teams ran all over the Browns and rushed the ball more times against the Browns than any other team except the Colts and teams threw on the Browns fewer times than any other team except the Chiefs. Teams didn't need to throw because the Browns had the 31 st ranked rush defense. What are you smoking?
The number that sticks out to me is the scoring defense (you know the one that actually matters given that NFL scoring is decided by points instead of attempts or yards.) Browns gave up 19.2 ppg, good enough for 5th. Teams score through the air in this league and the Browns defense did a good job of preventing that.
HitsRus
Posts: 9,206
May 1, 2012 5:42pm
reps.
That is one reason why I wouldn't have minded if the Browns called the Vikings bluff and took Claibourne if Richardson was gone. We would have had the 4th round pick as additional ammo to move up from#22.... and we would have had two lock down corners to go with Ward in the secondary.
Don't get me wrong...I'm okay with the TRich pick....just food for the grist mill. This team has/had so many holes, just keeping as many high pics a possible and drafting the best player out there might have been a better strategy than targeting individual players and needs and 'spending' or 'reaching' to get them.
I'm not bitching....just talking....that is what makes the draft so much fun to watch/grade/evaluate.
That is one reason why I wouldn't have minded if the Browns called the Vikings bluff and took Claibourne if Richardson was gone. We would have had the 4th round pick as additional ammo to move up from#22.... and we would have had two lock down corners to go with Ward in the secondary.
Don't get me wrong...I'm okay with the TRich pick....just food for the grist mill. This team has/had so many holes, just keeping as many high pics a possible and drafting the best player out there might have been a better strategy than targeting individual players and needs and 'spending' or 'reaching' to get them.
I'm not bitching....just talking....that is what makes the draft so much fun to watch/grade/evaluate.