Automatik;1070284 wrote:Ok, he's behind those guys.

And your point is? I'm still failing to see it.

thats exactly what I was arguing with him, so that is my point. Congratulations, you got it

Hb31187;1070298 wrote:I agree hes not far behind, just dont see how someone could say hes not real far behind them lol

Part of your sentence says you agree he's not far behind them, and the other parts seems to suggest he's real far behind them. Now you're just arguing with yourself.

You have to throw Billy Donovan in there as well. Accomplishments suggest he is a top 5 coach in basketball today. And he is young, not as young as Matta coaching years wise, but still younger than K, Boehiem, Williams, Calhoun, etc.

Laley23;1070422 wrote:You have to throw Billy Donovan in there as well. Accomplishments suggest he is a top 5 coach in basketball today. And he is young, not as young as Matta coaching years wise, but still younger than K, Boehiem, Williams, Calhoun, etc.

It's pretty well documented on here that I am not a big fan of Billy Donovan lol at least when it comes to "top coaches"

Sorry but he's had too many poor seasons, and his championships came from one recruiting class. Yes, that's a big component (recruiting) but you have to do it consistently and he doesn't do that.

SportsAndLady;1070438 wrote:It's pretty well documented on here that I am not a big fan of Billy Donovan lol at least when it comes to "top coaches"

Sorry but he's had too many poor seasons, and his championships came from one recruiting class. Yes, that's a big component (recruiting) but you have to do it consistently and he doesn't do that.

Hes also gone to a Final Four, well before that class. He also took 4 stars and put them in the NBA. He also adapted those bigs to run the point when they got a rebound. I agree his teams have been really talented and sucked many seasons. But he coached the shit out of Florida when they were SOs, and then when they were JRs he didnt have to as much, but he still allowed them to adapt the style to fit them. You dont luck your way into a national title, you certainly dont luck your way into back-to-back titles. To top it off, his previous Final Four pretty much makes the "fluke" part of either title go away...but back-to-back erases all doubt.

So is Jim o'brien above Matta too?? He took less talented players to a final 4.

Laley23;1070448 wrote:Hes also gone to a Final Four, well before that class. He also took 4 stars and put them in the NBA. He also adapted those bigs to run the point when they got a rebound. I agree his teams have been really talented and sucked many seasons. But he coached the shit out of Florida when they were SOs, and then when they were JRs he didnt have to as much, but he still allowed them to adapt the style to fit them. You dont luck your way into a national title, you certainly dont luck your way into back-to-back titles. To top it off, his previous Final Four pretty much makes the "fluke" part of either title go away...but back-to-back erases all doubt.

I didn't say it was luck. He did a fantastic job w/ that class, and winning those 2 titles w/ them.

My point is that outside of that class, and that other Final Four, he hasn't really done much. And he's missed the tourney A LOT which means a lot to me.

I love how the most part this is Non-OSU fans trying to tell OSU fans that we should be upset.

I think there are OSU fans that do want more, but they aren't going to call for Matta's head. We realize how bad the program was before. Matta had to change the culture, had to get everyone to believe. And now he has to win the Title game. Only one team can win it all each year, just because they didn't does not make it a bad season. The Tournament rewards teams that get favorable match ups and hot at the right time as someone said previously.

Matta would have to go quite a few more years from now and still not have a National Title before I get up in arms. The phrase "Don't bite the hand that feeds" is kind of applicable. OSU at this point is completely dependent on Matta for their success. He has made this program what it is entirely. Yes, we have an old old history of good basketball, but we had quite a few years of mediocrity. Give the man time.

SportsAndLady;1070462 wrote:I didn't say it was luck. He did a fantastic job w/ that class, and winning those 2 titles w/ them.

My point is that outside of that class, and that other Final Four, he hasn't really done much. And he's missed the tourney A LOT which means a lot to me.

Yeah, I agree. I wouldnt have him near the top of current coaches. I was implying that on accomplishments alone, he is up there.

Laley23;1070471 wrote:Yeah, I agree. I wouldnt have him near the top of current coaches. I was implying that on accomplishments alone, he is up there.

Oh he's definitely in the conversation, but I have him lower on my list than others might.

se-alum;1070334 wrote:Part of your sentence says you agree he's not far behind them, and the other parts seems to suggest he's real far behind them. Now you're just arguing with yourself.

I dont know what the fuck i was saying there. Lets try again lol. Hes behind them, its not a huge gap but its not a very close gap IMO

LJ;1070150 wrote:The underachievment last year is what is burning me up and why I refuse to become complacent with B1G titles. I think the 09/10 team did what they should have done. They had no inside game. Last year they had every aspect of the game and they couldn't put it together. You don't get many chances like that to have basically the perfect mix of talent, experience, leadership and drive. IMO there should be an unlit match sitting on the floor under Matta's chair. I don't think he is anywhere near getting fired or reprimanded, nor should he be, but I think we as fans need to always demand more, in a reasonable fashion. I think it's reasonable at this point to start wanting Final Fours.

Or hell, even just getting 100% out of the team come tourny time would be a start.

The entire season was an underachievement or are you talking about one game? It must be one game. Ohio State had one hell of a season last year. ONE game was the problem, you MUST be talking about the Kentucky game. That game was a perfect storm for Kentucky. Their 5th option had the best game of his career, Buford had the worst game of his career and Ohio State loses by TWO points. Yes Buford missed 14 shots, but the rest of the team missed 28 shots. Someone could have picked Buford up and made one of those shots. Is it Matta's fault that one of those 28 missed shots wasn't made? Did you want Thomas on the the floor instead of Buford? Did you want Matta to tell Buford to stop shooting? Stop taking open shots? Don't let the rest of the team hear you tell Buford to stop shooting. That would have had a HUGE negative affect on the TEAM. Just having Buford on the floor and not taking open shots would have freaked out the TEAM. Do you remember how many blocked shots Kentucky had? ELEVEN blocked shots. THAT is an enormous stat and THE REAL reason Kentucky won the game by TWO points, not Buford's bad game. What should Matta have done about Kentucky blocking all of those shots? The truth is Kentucky was MUCH more athletic and much "longer" than Ohio State and it took being MUCH more athletic to beat Oho State by TWO points,

Just another reason why march madness is so awesome. It's all about matchups. I think uk was the only team that would have beat osu, but that's irrelevant, because they did. That loss sucked do bad, but I was over it fast. Because we had an awesome year, and I'll remember last years team forever. Others who aren't osu fans won't, and that's fine. But if you're a buckeye fan, you realized that last years team was special. They came up short, but they were still special.

Big Gain;1070924 wrote:The entire season was an underachievement or are you talking about one game? It must be one game. Ohio State had one hell of a season last year. ONE game was the problem, you MUST be talking about the Kentucky game. That game was a perfect storm for Kentucky. Their 5th option had the best game of his career, Buford had the worst game of his career and Ohio State loses by TWO points. Yes Buford missed 14 shots, but the rest of the team missed 28 shots. Someone could have picked Buford up and made one of those shots. Is it Matta's fault that one of those 28 missed shots wasn't made? Did you want Thomas on the the floor instead of Buford? Did you want Matta to tell Buford to stop shooting? Stop taking open shots? Don't let the rest of the team hear you tell Buford to stop shooting. That would have had a HUGE negative affect on the TEAM. Just having Buford on the floor and not taking open shots would have freaked out the TEAM. Do you remember how many blocked shots Kentucky had? ELEVEN blocked shots. THAT is an enormous stat and THE REAL reason Kentucky won the game by TWO points, not Buford's bad game. What should Matta have done about Kentucky blocking all of those shots? The truth is Kentucky was MUCH more athletic and much "longer" than Ohio State and it took being MUCH more athletic to beat Oho State by TWO points,

I'm pretty sure LJ's whole point is yes it was a great regular season, but in the end you want to start seeing Final Fours and championships.

SportsAndLady;1071135 wrote:I'm pretty sure LJ's whole point is yes it was a great regular season, but in the end you want to start seeing Final Fours and championships.

I make it a point to not respond to Big Gain

Big Gain;1070924 wrote:The entire season was an underachievement or are you talking about one game? It must be one game. Ohio State had one hell of a season last year. ONE game was the problem, you MUST be talking about the Kentucky game. That game was a perfect storm for Kentucky. Their 5th option had the best game of his career, Buford had the worst game of his career and Ohio State loses by TWO points. Yes Buford missed 14 shots, but the rest of the team missed 28 shots. Someone could have picked Buford up and made one of those shots. Is it Matta's fault that one of those 28 missed shots wasn't made? Did you want Thomas on the the floor instead of Buford? Did you want Matta to tell Buford to stop shooting? Stop taking open shots? Don't let the rest of the team hear you tell Buford to stop shooting. That would have had a HUGE negative affect on the TEAM. Just having Buford on the floor and not taking open shots would have freaked out the TEAM. Do you remember how many blocked shots Kentucky had? ELEVEN blocked shots. THAT is an enormous stat and THE REAL reason Kentucky won the game by TWO points, not Buford's bad game. What should Matta have done about Kentucky blocking all of those shots? The truth is Kentucky was MUCH more athletic and much "longer" than Ohio State and it took being MUCH more athletic to beat Oho State by TWO points,

Is it REALLY necessary to TYPE like THIS every time?

LJ;1071152 wrote:I make it a point to not respond to Big Gain

Reps.

LJ;1071152 wrote:I make it a point to not respond to Big Gain

A wise decision.

lol Paladin/Big Gain is such a c.unt

LJ;1071152 wrote:I make it a point to not respond to Big Gain

Absolutely a "wise decision" not to engage in a repartee.

Jester;1071160 wrote:Is it REALLY necessary to TYPE like THIS every time?

YES, for those of your ilk whose intellect is lacking. It's used as a point of EMPHASIS since one's vocal inflections can not be discerned. It's a recognized internet practice.

If it annoys you....all the better.

Big Gain;1071662 wrote:YES, for those of your ilk whose intellect is lacking. It's used as a point of EMPHASIS since one's vocal inflections can not be discerned. It's a recognized internet practice.

If it annoys you....all the better.

I assume this is where the argument was about PGs? I don't really recall but...

Seth Davis @SethDavisHoops
I'll still take Craft but it's damn close RT @RetProf77: Which point guard is best in Big Ten - Aaron Craft or Trey Burke?

karen lotz;1073445 wrote:I assume this is where the argument was about PGs? I don't really recall but...

Seth Davis @SethDavisHoops
I'll still take Craft but it's damn close RT @RetProf77: Which point guard is best in Big Ten - Aaron Craft or Trey Burke?

:thumbup:

Another mans thoughts, kind of, on the PG in America debate. This time, Jon Rothsteins:

JonRothstein Jon Rothstein

Despite Momo Jones' 43 points for Iona in win over Canisius - more impressed w Scott Machado dishing out 14 dimes to 2 TO. Best PG in USA.