So cliff notes of this thread....

If posters here were in this situation, most would shoot the BG and still be alive

Snot would be bludgeoned to death

The dog people....release the dog. That's your (final) option. Then if he hits the dog, it's assault of an officer and then you shoot him (not 5 times, it only takes one bullet to knock a guy down). If he doesn't hit the dog, the suspect is contained and you can arrest him without shooting him.

SEJ- Of course you're going to say that. You're in law enforcement. But these men will lose their jobs and a lawsuit will follow. I guarantee it.

SnotBubbles;1066054 wrote:The dog people....release the dog. That's your (final) option. Then if he hits the dog, it's assault of an officer and then you shoot him (not 5 times, it only takes one bullet to knock a guy down). If he doesn't hit the dog, the suspect is contained and you can arrest him without shooting him.

SEJ- Of course you're going to say that. You're in law enforcement. But these men will lose their jobs and a lawsuit will follow. I guarantee it.

1 bullet? Have you ever shot a handgun? Have you ever shot someone high on drugs?

SnotBubbles;1066054 wrote:The dog people....release the dog. That's your (final) option. Then if he hits the dog, it's assault of an officer and then you shoot him (not 5 times, it only takes one bullet to knock a guy down). If he doesn't hit the dog, the suspect is contained and you can arrest him without shooting him.

SEJ- Of course you're going to say that. You're in law enforcement. But these men will lose their jobs and a lawsuit will follow. I guarantee it.

ROFL

WebFire;1066062 wrote:1 bullet? Have you ever shot a handgun? Have you ever shot someone high on drugs?

Too bad he never shot himself while high on drugs.

But I agree with everyone else. If the guy didn't want to get shot and killed he should have 1)Not been committing a crime and 2)Not disobey the Officers.

WebFire;1066062 wrote:1 bullet? Have you ever shot a handgun? Have you ever shot someone high on drugs?

Ever read the story about the cop who puts 18 rounds of .40 center mass in a BG and the BG takes like 5 minutes after the last shot to die and shoots like 4 other cops in the process?

Snot bubble-The dog is an officer of the law just as you said and thats more money the department will spend training another dog. The dogs are like a partner and sorry some criminal is not worth the life of my dog/partner. The family can file a lawsuit but will more than likely lose. I have seen cases thrown out when the criminal had no weapon but were shot because they were reaching into their coat pocket for a phone. Officers are not trained to just shoot once, pull the trigger and hope like hell one of those shots take him down. Just as someone mentioned before when talking about the whole trying to just shoot a leg to maime, accuracy in a gun fight goes down that is why they pull off 10 rounds and again hope one or more hit him to stop him.

I think SEJ would know best b/c he was trained like these officers, corrections or not its close enough. It's easy for you to go back analyze the video and say "oh they didn't need to shoot him because..." when put in the actual situation adrenaline is rushing and the only option is to react to how you were trained.

Sykotyk;1065910 wrote:Whether you agree with an officer or not, if they're directing you to submit, you submit. You don't walk around with a crowbar or ANYTHING and disobey. If you feel you're wrongly arrested, detained, etc you take it up with the judge. That's the nature of our legal system. You don't preempt the officer trying to do his job. His job is his job.

I disagree with this. I don't think cops have the ultimate authority to tell you what to do and you must do it or be shot. What made this justified IMHO is that he had a weapon and he moved towards the police with it raised. If he had run away and they shot him in the back I would think this wrong.

SnotBubbles;1066054 wrote:But these men will lose their jobs and a lawsuit will follow. I guarantee it.

If this happens it will only be because the incident was videotaped and they won't want the negative publicity and that's bullshit.

LJ;1065997 wrote:So cliff notes of this thread....

If posters here were in this situation, most would shoot the BG and still be alive

Snot would be bludgeoned to death

win-win

LJ;1066087 wrote:Ever read the story about the cop who puts 18 rounds of .40 center mass in a BG and the BG takes like 5 minutes after the last shot to die and shoots like 4 other cops in the process?

Yeah, but this guy had a crow bar, not a gun. You shoot him once, he's down and can be apprehended. I realized when I first posted, I'd be in the minority. Obviously some of you guys feel (strongly) the opposite. I just honestly believe that it could have been handled in a better way without this guy getting shot 5 times and killed, all for wielding a crowbar.

I'm not going to call you "idiots" because I disagree with you, I see what you guys are saying...it's just my opinion. And I respectfully disagree with most of you.

SnotBubbles;1066145 wrote:Yeah, but this guy had a crow bar, not a gun. You shoot him once, he's down and can be apprehended.

You have no idea if that is true. Most likely it is not true.

Your other "solutions" have been refuted time and time again. Give a solution that doesn't put an officer's life at risk, a $50,000 police dog's life at risk or one that has a gross assumption. Show us a surefire alternative.

LJ;1066154 wrote:You have no idea if that is true. Most likely it is not true.

Your other "solutions" have been refuted time and time again. Give a solution that doesn't put an officer's life at risk, a $50,000 police dog's life at risk or one that has a gross assumption. Show us a surefire alternative.

I gave you many that I think are completely legit. It would be different if the guy had more than a crowbar. If that was a gun, I'm all for blasting his ass repeatedly. I just don't see (from the video) how deadly force was the only option.

Then again, I'm not a police officer, nor have I ever been in the situation...so maybe I would handle it differently than I am arguing. But law enforcement is trained for situations like this, and I have to believe that they are trained to handle situations like this with a little less negligence (and that's what I see).

And apparently, while I'm the minority on the OC...I'm not the minority with my opinion overall. See the poll on this page. I'm sure there are more with similar results.

http://newsone.com/nation/casey-gane-mccalla/police-shoot-and-kill-man-with-crowbar-outside-carls-jr-on-video/

SnotBubbles;1066168 wrote:I gave you many that I think are completely legit. It would be different if the guy had more than a crowbar. If that was a gun, I'm all for blasting his ass repeatedly. I just don't see (from the video) how deadly force was the only option.

Then again, I'm not a police officer, nor have I ever been in the situation...so maybe I would handle it differently than I am arguing. But law enforcement is trained for situations like this, and I have to believe that they are trained to handle situations like this with a little less negligence (and that's what I see).

You've been told by multiple people what they're trained to do, which is exactly what they did. Apparently you know better than the decades of police work that went into the training they received.

SnotBubbles;1066145 wrote:Yeah, but this guy had a crow bar, not a gun. You shoot him once, he's down and can be apprehended. I realized when I first posted, I'd be in the minority. Obviously some of you guys feel (strongly) the opposite. I just honestly believe that it could have been handled in a better way without this guy getting shot 5 times and killed, all for wielding a crowbar.

I'm not going to call you "idiots" because I disagree with you, I see what you guys are saying...it's just my opinion. And I respectfully disagree with most of you.

You are trying to downplay what the guy did. You are saying he was shot because he was wielding a crowbar, no, he was shot because he was trying to attack an officer with a crowbar.

That is a HUGE difference.

Fair enough gents.

But lastly, I just read some more on it. After he was shot 5 times by the initial officer, the officer who tasered him shot him 5 more times while he laid on the ground. You're all right, that's not excessive at all.

With that said, I'll agree to disagree.

SnotBubbles;1066180 wrote:Fair enough gents.

But lastly, I just read some more on it. After he was shot 5 times by the initial officer, the officer who tasered him shot him 5 more times while he laid on the ground. You're all right, that's not excessive at all.

If true (and it probably is not), that's a little different, don't you think? I used to think you were playing stupid...

In the video at .38 You see the guy turn, take two agressive side shuddle step at the Ofiicer an aggressive move backing the Officer up, also he lower his right hand in the direction of his pocket and start to lift the crowbar upward with to other hand.

Question is was the movement of his right hand downward in the direction of his pocket an attemped to reach for a additional weapon?

queencitybuckeye;1066183 wrote:If true (and it probably is not), that's a little different, don't you think? I used to think you were playing stupid...

[LEFT]One officers shot the man five times, and a second officer shot the man five more times after he fell to the pavement.[/LEFT]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/caught-on-video-calif-cops-open-fire-on-vandal-outside-carls-jr-restaurant/

Pigs overreacted and now this poor guys family has to deal with the consequences. smh at the cops

SnotBubbles;1066191 wrote:http://www.theblaze.com/stories/caught-on-video-calif-cops-open-fire-on-vandal-outside-carls-jr-restaurant/

Which is why I prefaced my original comments about not having all the facts. When I did watch it yesterday evening with sound you can here 1 cop immediately fire 5 rounds, then a slight delay, then the 2nd cop fires an additional 5 rounds.

Might it have been excessive? Possibly, but situations like these things happen so quick. It's great to be in a position to second guess everything these guys do.

But as I stated previously, these cops do not have the luxury of being able to second guess and do everything in slow mode. This is a situation in which a guy, who you already tried to taze, is advancing towards and officer with a large metal object with his hands back ready to swing it. You don't hesitate, you fire your gun center mass. The second officer firing 5 SLIGHTLY after the fact can be explained away as just a bad reaction on his part (reaction time that is, not being as quick as the first cop). It's not like he went to go stand over the body then took a few seconds and lodged a few bullets in the guys head.

Hindsight is a luxury not afforded to cops.

Heretic;1065524 wrote:Basically thinthick's, but with different typos and a couple arrogant "smarter than you" lines thrown in for good measure.

You know what You are a joke . You think its funny sorry piece of dirt

Belly35;1066189 wrote:In the video at .38 You see the guy turn, take two agressive side shuddle step at the Ofiicer an aggressive move backing the Officer up, also he lower his right hand in the direction of his pocket and start to lift the crowbar upward with to other hand.

Question is was the movement of his right hand downward in the direction of his pocket an attemped to reach for a additional weapon?

That was one of the first thoughts I had too. It is when the suspect lowers that left hand and grabs the crowbar that the officer shoots. Perhaps he thoughts he was reaching for a weapon. If you watch closely, the suspect never does reach into a pocket, he grabs the lower handle of the crowbar. But LEO is not going to wait and see if you reach in a pocket for a gun, then shoot. If the LEO thought he was reaching for a gun, it's bam bam time.

Those Nazi officers need locked up for life what they did was murder that guy plain and simple . They even had a dog at there disposal and the perp didnt even have a gun . How man shots you going to put into that man and why .. This aint Nazi Germany people . All you right wing facists that celebrate this crap would not if that were a family member . Sure he deserved to be executed like that . Small town pigs Ill bet they were. They will all get commondations for murder what a joke .. Its criminal though to repeatadly beat a man on PCP with clubs . " Rodney King" anybody . Atleast he is still alive