sherm03;1004201 wrote:So since 1869, the NCAA has not recognized a champion at the highest level of collegiate football.

Wow lol

Are you serious at all right now?

SportsAndLady;1005234 wrote:Wow lol

Are you serious at all right now?

Yes. I am serious. Why do you think the trophy is this:


Instead of this:


...like it looks like for EVERY OTHER NCAA SPORT.

It's because it's not an NCAA national championship. Never has been, never will be.

Damn bro, you are serious and correct.

sherm03;1005299 wrote:Yes. I am serious. Why do you think the trophy is this:


Instead of this:


...like it looks like for EVERY OTHER NCAA SPORT.

It's because it's not an NCAA national championship. Never has been, never will be.

Yeah because the field hockey championships can afford a huge crystal field hockey stick...

College football makes a LITTTLLLLEEE bit more money than other sports, so they can have a nice shiny trophy.

I mean seriously..the trophy? That's why the NCAA doesn't recognize a champion?

SportsAndLady;1005312 wrote:Yeah because the field hockey championships can afford a huge crystal field hockey stick...

College football makes a LITTTLLLLEEE bit more money than other sports, so they can have a nice shiny trophy.

I mean seriously..the trophy? That's why the NCAA doesn't recognize a champion?

No, that is not why. But the NCAA does not recognize an FBS champion as the NCAA champion. The Division I Football National Championship, as sanctioned by the NCAA, is determined by the FCS tournament.

One of those NCAA official pages used to have a statement about it. I can't find it right now, but just as an example, take a look at this page:

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/championships

Search their map with the locations of national championship games (you can filter by football) - you won't find anything for FBS and note that the Division I location is in Texas.

Sherm, I don't want to go back read the thread. What is your point that the NCAA does not recognize a champion at the FBS level?

enigmaax;1005319 wrote:No, that is not why. But the NCAA does not recognize an FBS champion as the NCAA champion. The Division I Football National Championship, as sanctioned by the NCAA, is determined by the FCS tournament.

The NCAA may not come out and say "this is the NCAA champion!" But they put together the BCS to crown the champion. So they indirectly crown a champion. the point is, there's still a fuckin NCAA champion.

SportsAndLady;1005327 wrote:The NCAA may not come out and say "this is the NCAA champion!" But they put together the BCS to crown the champion. So they indirectly crown a champion. the point is, there's still a ****in NCAA champion.

They list a lot of different selections. The NCAA didn't put the BCS together - individual conferences did, as they've always been free to negotiate/handle their own post-season affairs.

Take a look at the official NCAA record book. Aside from listing numerous "selectors", one line in particular references that the BCS is its own entity and that the NCAA doesn't recognize its own champion:

[LEFT]

The Bowl Championship Series (BCS) was launched in 1998 to match the No. 1 and No. 2 teams in the BCS rankings in a bowl game to determine a national champion in the absence of NCAA-sponsored playoffs.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/football_records/DI/2009/2009FBS.pdf[/LEFT]

enigmaax;1005335 wrote:They list a lot of different selections. The NCAA didn't put the BCS together - individual conferences did, as they've always been free to negotiate/handle their own post-season affairs.

And the conferences are a part of the NCAA...basically what you're saying is if the NCAA didn't want the BCS to happen, they could do nothing about it? I don't think that's the case...it's their championship, even though they might not say it.

SportsAndLady;1005361 wrote:And the conferences are a part of the NCAA...basically what you're saying is if the NCAA didn't want the BCS to happen, they could do nothing about it? I don't think that's the case...it's their championship, even though they might not say it.

I know what you are trying to get at, but it is wrong. The NCAA doesn't sponsor a football postseason. Could they? Sure. But they don't. They've left the handling of the postseason to schools/conferences forever. They've never tried to crown a champion. It is that simple and it is why to the NCAA, there's no difference between the BCS champion and the AP champion or the Billingsley champion or the Sagarin champion or the Eck champion or the Caspar Whitney champion - did you even look at the record book? The NCAA lists 37 different major selectors of national champions. So which one is the "NCAA" champion? Answer = none.

I'm still not sure why this is being discussed.

WebFire;1005376 wrote:I'm still not sure why this is being discussed.

I think the simple point is that the NCAA doesn't "need to fix the system" because the NCAA never intended there to be a system for crowning a national champion.

The BCS wasn't created to help the NCAA crown a champion, it was created to generate money. Plain and simple. The title game is a by-product that happens to be the cash cow. That's it - all the controversy in the world is not going to change that the BCS serves its purpose which is expressly stated as "designed to ensure that the two top-rated teams," as defined by ITSELF, meet in a championship game.

enigmaax;1005371 wrote:So which one is the "NCAA" champion? Answer = none.

The BCS national champion..which is done by conferences, which is under the NCAA.

SportsAndLady;1005420 wrote:The BCS national champion..which is done by conferences, which is under the NCAA.

You are just wrong. Like I said, look at the NCAA record book.

enigmaax;1005424 wrote:You are just wrong. Like I said, look at the NCAA record book.

You're the one who said it's done by teh conferences lol and are the conferences not under NCAA control?

The American Football Coaches Association is contractually bound to vote the winner of this game as the BCS National Champion and the contract signed by each conference requires them to recognize the winner of the BCS National Championship game as the official and only Champion.

SportsAndLady;1005442 wrote:You're the one who said it's done by teh conferences lol and are the conferences not under NCAA control?

Seriously man, I don't know what you don't understand. The NCAA is an entity. The BCS is a separate entity. When the Bowl Coalition and Bowl Alliance were created, every conference that was affiliated with the NCAA wasn't involved or represented....because the major conferences were acting on their own, outside of NCAA affiliation. The BCS is the same thing, a group of conferences acting outside of the NCAA's influence to arrange postseason bowl games. The NCAA doesn't care because they have no intent of implementing a playoff or of crowning a national champion.

What you quoted has absolutely zero relevance to this topic. The coaches agree to vote the winner of the BCS game as the USA Today (whatever the name is now) Poll. That's it. It is only one poll and it is used by the BCS. And when that team is named, the NCAA will list it as a major selector. If Alabama wins and the AP should happen to vote LSU #1, the NCAA will list LSU in just the same way as Alabama - a national champion selected by a particular organization.

enigmaax;1005482 wrote:Seriously man, I don't know what you don't understand. The NCAA is an entity. The BCS is a separate entity. When the Bowl Coalition and Bowl Alliance were created, every conference that was affiliated with the NCAA wasn't involved or represented....because the major conferences were acting on their own, outside of NCAA affiliation. The BCS is the same thing, a group of conferences acting outside of the NCAA's influence to arrange postseason bowl games. The NCAA doesn't care because they have no intent of implementing a playoff or of crowning a national champion.

What you quoted has absolutely zero relevance to this topic. The coaches agree to vote the winner of the BCS game as the USA Today (whatever the name is now) Poll. That's it. It is only one poll and it is used by the BCS. And when that team is named, the NCAA will list it as a major selector. If Alabama wins and the AP should happen to vote LSU #1, the NCAA will list LSU in just the same way as Alabama - a national champion selected by a particular organization.

A good question that came from a point S&L mentioned earlier...would the NCAA be able to stop this if they so desired? Doesn't really matter, just made me wonder.

enigmaax;1005482 wrote:Seriously man, I don't know what you don't understand. The NCAA is an entity. The BCS is a separate entity. When the Bowl Coalition and Bowl Alliance were created, every conference that was affiliated with the NCAA wasn't involved or represented....because the major conferences were acting on their own, outside of NCAA affiliation. The BCS is the same thing, a group of conferences acting outside of the NCAA's influence to arrange postseason bowl games. The NCAA doesn't care because they have no intent of implementing a playoff or of crowning a national champion.

What you quoted has absolutely zero relevance to this topic. The coaches agree to vote the winner of the BCS game as the USA Today (whatever the name is now) Poll. That's it. It is only one poll and it is used by the BCS. And when that team is named, the NCAA will list it as a major selector. If Alabama wins and the AP should happen to vote LSU #1, the NCAA will list LSU in just the same way as Alabama - a national champion selected by a particular organization.

a) i'm semi-messing around in this conversation. I do think that the NCAA indirectly crowns the national champion via the BCS Nat'l 'Ship game. And the trophy thing was so stupid. They have the crystal ball because they can afford a crystal ball. With how many people watch the title game, you can't just have some shitty trophy be the end result. I realize the champion of the game, however, is not an NCAA champion.

b) can you answer that question--if the NCAA wanted to change, could they get rid of the BCS?

c) say LSU wins the title game...are they not called NCAA champions?

SportsAndLady;1005518 wrote:a) i'm semi-messing around in this conversation. I do think that the NCAA indirectly crowns the national champion via the BCS Nat'l 'Ship game. And the trophy thing was so stupid. They have the crystal ball because they can afford a crystal ball. With how many people watch the title game, you can't just have some shitty trophy be the end result. I realize the champion of the game, however, is not an NCAA champion.

b) can you answer that question--if the NCAA wanted to change, could they get rid of the BCS?

c) say LSU wins the title game...are they not called NCAA champions?

a) I think you missed the point of him posting the trophy pics.

c) LSU would be called the BCS champion and AP champion, etc.

SportsAndLady;1005518 wrote:a) i'm semi-messing around in this conversation. I do think that the NCAA indirectly crowns the national champion via the BCS Nat'l 'Ship game. And the trophy thing was so stupid. They have the crystal ball because they can afford a crystal ball. With how many people watch the title game, you can't just have some ****ty trophy be the end result. I realize the champion of the game, however, is not an NCAA champion.

b) can you answer that question--if the NCAA wanted to change, could they get rid of the BCS?

c) say LSU wins the title game...are they not called NCAA champions?

a) I'm glad you get it. The point of the trophies was that it doesn't say "NCAA" anywhere on it. It could be Gibwok instead of a crystal ball - the point wasn't how fancy it was.
b) I would assume that if the NCAA suddenly wanted to sponsor a championship, it could do that. One key thing about how it is set up now, however, is that the NCAA invests zero money in it, assumes none of the risk, and does none of the work (setting up contracts, locations, etc.). There's a lot more to it than just the name.
c) As Lotz said, no. They are not the NCAA champions. They are the BCS Champion and then if the AP votes that way, they are AP Champion. Which is why if there's a split, the NCAA lists both in the record book.

a) The trophy thing isn't stupid. Look at every national championship trophy the NCAA hands out, it looks the same. Girls soccer, Mens lacrosse, FCS, basketball...it looks just like the hockey one I posted. FBS is different because the trophy is from the BCS, not the NCAA. Way to throw in the "im not really serious" line though. When made to look stupid, pretend you're just playing. Good strategy.

b) Yes, the NCAA could start a playoff if they wanted to. My contention is they haven't done it ever...why would they want to start now?

c) Already been answered. They are the BCS champions.

Way to throw in the "im not really serious" line though. When made to look stupid, pretend you're just playing. Good strategy.

You're real cool man!

SportsAndLady;1005717 wrote:You're real cool man!

I know.