Waynedale isn't Coldwater for sure....but 9 playoff apperances and 3 regional championships over a 27 year period since the first apperance and regional title in 1985 isn't bad. I also believe our all time playoff record has us 6 or 7 games over .500, so for the most part we have represented very well in the post season.
18 league titles is nice too.

Only a couple D1 players ever...has always been a team concept and community concept....never been much controversy. Haven't had much talent the last couple years.

A little worried that the culture has shifted, and wrestling will be king for a while , but most years Waynedale football will be respectable.

Playoffs:

Smithville 12 times 14-12 3 final four
Waynedale 9 times 9-9 3 final four
Dalton 10 times 6-10
Norwayne 3 times 6-2 1 final four
Northwestern 3 times 2-3
Hillsdale 2 times 3-2
Rittman 2 times 0-2
Chippewa 1 time 1-1

1 title, 1 runner-up, 7 final four

A few of the most known non- MAC:
Wynford 11 times 8-11 1 final four
Patrick Henry 14 times 22-13 5 final four 1 title
Liberty Center 15 times 24-14 6 final four 2 titles
Shadyside 13 times 25-13 4 final four 2 titles
Wheelersburg 23 times 21-22 3 final four 1 title

The MAC:

Coldwater 17 times 45-15 2 title, 5 runnerup, 9 final four
Delphos St John 14 times 47-8 6 titles, 1 runnerup, 12 final four
Marion Local 14 times 43-9 5 titles, 1 runnerup, 10 final four
Minster 11 times 13-10 1 title, 2final four
New Bremmen 2 times 2-2
St Henry 14 times 41-8 6 titles,2 runnerup, 10 final four
Versailles 17 times 44-11 6 titles, 3 runnerup, 12 final four
Anna 9 times 2-9
Ft Recovery
New Knoxville
Parkway

26 titles, 12 runner-up, 52 final four

transfer of power- the old three vs new three. wrestling, has always been a part of bears tradition. but think about this.....at small school level- HERE COME THE CAPS YOU SEEM TO LIKE SO MUCH! FOOTBALL PLAYERS WRESTLE, WRESTLERS PLAY FOOTBALL! I KEEP TELLING YOU (NOT STANDING ON THE FENCE!) MR Z. WAS NOT AND IS NOT READY TO BE A HEAD COACH! ANTWHERE! PERIOD! DOSENT FIT AND WONT FIT. HOW DISSAPOINTING THAT THERE WERE MORE CHEERLEADERS AND BAND MEMBERS THEN FANS IN THE STANDS. so even more impressive is the job the COACHES, the PLAYERS, Communities of cats and falcons have achieved

On the WCAL.....average small school conference. Better than some, not as strong as others. A case could even be made for the WCAL being a weak conference... 1 state title and a bunch of playoff appearences mostly ending after 1 or 2 games.
Although the top half of the conference would fare well against most small conferences the bottom half is almost always ugly, whether it be Ritt, Chipp & WD presently or NWN, HILL & NOR of the past.

On the Big 3.....it's an era that lives only in memory. Bears, Smithies & Dawgs will ramble on about their winning histories because that's all they have now. You don't get computer points for tradition. The new sheriff in town hales from Creston and the contenders live in West Salem & Jeromesville. That is the present reality.......and that will change too.

On the Smithville/Northwestern game....Northwestern is a better team, plain & simple. The Husky stars (Smith & Nolletti) outshined the Smithie stars (Bates, Buss & Shane). Same with coaching, Thut adjusted in the second half, Bescancon didn't. The Huskies also appeared to have more stamina as the contest progressed. Smithville is still a decent team and can be a good team by the end of the season but the playoff hopes are over and they are officially a spoiler.

Northwestern is a good team, but if they are fortunate enough to get into the postseason, they won't last long going for 2 on extra points all the time. Kicking is definitely an issue. I bet Thut is hoping NWN gets back into D5 next year.

and a big "atta boy" to Kurtz(sp?) from Smithville......that kid has a serious motor!!!....I actually thought he was the best player on the field, and thats keeping in mind the 5 above mentioned players who are real good themselves.

this is easily the best statement I have read on this site. Its our friday nite lites, its our wayne county league. so everyone take a minute and think of the best player, friend or foe you can think of. heres one Larry Colic of smithville (however you spell it) I am bear thru and thru, but that guy was a monster.

Go Falcons;1282819 wrote:I realize this may not be popular. But I think it could be an interesting conversation. Some thoughts about this Old three vs. the New three thing.
1. Size and demographics of the districts has not really changed or has not favored one district over another.
2. Overall the quality of athletes has not changed ,yes you have up and down years, but Hillsdale is not growing them that much bigger and Dalton that much smaller.
3. All teams face a change in student dedication and commitment. I believe we all have soccer now.
4. There has always been "politics" and parents involved in the game and it effects all teams, and it varies year to year.
5. The "shift in power" is pronounced enough that you can not say its just a blip.
6. The Old three have seen their demise while still under the coaching of the formerly successful.
7. When you compare the WCAL history to other leagues we do not stand out and compared to the MAC we have nothing to show for the last forty years.

When you line it all up can you really say the old three were powerhouses? Can you really say the new three are? We all love WCAL football, but in the big picture is it all that we crack it up to be?

Isn't colic a disease?

It's Kolic, big guy.

And my two cents worth is that the WCAL is a very good conference.

thnx for the correction and I also think its a great conference. Just a well said post

BRF;1283354 wrote:Isn't colic a disease?

It's Kolic, big guy.

And my two cents worth is that the WCAL is a very good conference.

On the WCAL.....average small school conference. Better than some, not as strong as others. A case could even be made for the WCAL being a weak conference... 1 state title and a bunch of playoff appearences mostly ending after 1 or 2 games.
Although the top half of the conference would fare well against most small conferences the bottom half is almost always ugly, whether it be Ritt, Chipp & WD presently or NWN, HILL & NOR of the past.

I agree with you bloody. I really feel in our county, and most county's our kids are all about the same. Each team will have a few great athletes one year and maybe not so much another year. Some coaches and programs are better than others. Other than that take all the kids in the wcal, mix them up and best coach wins.

Just my opinion ..............

99bobcatdb;1283415 wrote:On the WCAL.....average small school conference. Better than some, not as strong as others. A case could even be made for the WCAL being a weak conference... 1 state title and a bunch of playoff appearences mostly ending after 1 or 2 games.
Although the top half of the conference would fare well against most small conferences the bottom half is almost always ugly, whether it be Ritt, Chipp & WD presently or NWN, HILL & NOR of the past.

I agree with you bloody. I really feel in our county, and most county's our kids are all about the same. Each team will have a few great athletes one year and maybe not so much another year. Some coaches and programs are better than others. Other than that take all the kids in the wcal, mix them up and best coach wins.

Just my opinion ..............

Over a span of time, I definitely agree.

Side note: I can't believe Thut has been at Northwestern for 13 years. He was a coach for a couple years I was at Smithville. The latter two years (after he left), we referred to him as "Judas" that week. Tip of the cap to him, though, for his tenure there, and for making Northwestern a respectable program on his quest to becoming the Dean of the WCAL coaches.

O-Trap;1283425 wrote:Over a span of time, I definitely agree.

Side note: I can't believe Thut has been at Northwestern for 13 years. He was a coach for a couple years I was at Smithville. The latter two years (after he left), we referred to him as "Judas" that week. Tip of the cap to him, though, for his tenure there, and for making Northwestern a respectable program on his quest to becoming the Dean of the WCAL coaches.

O-trap you hit the name in the head, coach Thutt does deserve a tip of the hat for being the dean of the wcal and all that he has done and his staff to turn around a once very poor program. Who would have thought a coach from northwestern becoming the dean of the wcal

Pick-em results are posted! Congrats to OhYeah for pulling into the lead!

Jmar25;1282984 wrote: I would like if someone could find the number of playoff appearances and wins of the "old" three.... say... 90's to now.... compared to the "new" three's appearances and records of say.... 2006?!?! '07 is that when the switch appeared? until now... I think you'll find that only Norwayne can claim more than a win or two in the playoffs and it was done in only one year.... If I remember correctly... Hillsdale had one regional final appearance?.

I think Northwestern made a regional final appearence in 2005, if true, that would be 3 in 8 years....but it's all inconsequential. Comparisons of different eras that in OHSAA football is difficult at best. Some schools that used to be small are now large, the playoff system changed to include more teams....you could make an argument either way on that alone. When it comes to this old/new big 3 stuff, it has changed and will change again.

Jmar25;1282984 wrote:I guess I need to know what your definition of powerhouse is.... For small school football... I've got to say yes... the WCAL is a powerhouse in small school football... You've got the teams in the west... you have the Bellaire/St. Clairesville area... then Wayne County. Unfortunately... the MAC is the ultimate powerhouse in small school football... They have the championships... Wayne County has represented an area more than any other besides the MAC and maybe the Bell/St. C area.

I don't know Jmar....you're giving Wayne County an awful lot of credit. What about...

The Mahoning County area bunch...Warren JFK, Campbell Memorial, McDonald, Ursuline, etc...that area has many more appearences and titles than the Wayne County area (8 wcal + Orr, Tri, Tus, Black River, Loudenville)

I would also throw the Deep Southeast/Lawrence County area in ahead of us.....Ironton, Coal Grove Bryant Dawson & Wheelersburg...tons of appearences out of those 3 alone.

also Cincinnati area with Wyoming, Mariemont and the now defunct CAPE?.....several titles and numerous appearences there.

then there's the Dayton area with Germantown Valley View, Brookville, Kettering Alder

and the conversation has to include the conference with Columbiana Crestview & North Lima South Range.....they've ended alot of WCAL playoff runs.

Kirtland and Cuyahoga Hts and the Eastern Cleveland area schools?....not sure the WCAL is hands down better than that group.

Columbus Catholic schools? (Hartley, Ready, etc)

Of course there's arguments to made made over all of this, but this is my reasoning for calling the Wayne County area average. This is clearly a deep well and we could split hairs over who's small and who's not and who recruits and who doesn't....but at the end of the day, this area has 2 titles and a bunch of appearences......unfortunately many areas can claim more of both.

most of the time I think your opinions are very straight up and truthful.....this one, I think you're wearing the Wayne colored glasses on....but none the less enjoy your take.

Bloody Toothbrush;1283992 wrote:I think Northwestern made a regional final appearence in 2005, if true, that would be 3 in 8 years....but it's all inconsequential. Comparisons of different eras that in OHSAA football is difficult at best. Some schools that used to be small are now large, the playoff system changed to include more teams....you could make an argument either way on that alone. When it comes to this old/new big 3 stuff, it has changed and will change again.

I don't know Jmar....you're giving Wayne County an awful lot of credit. What about...

The Mahoning County area bunch...Warren JFK, Campbell Memorial, McDonald, Ursuline, etc...that area has many more appearences and titles than the Wayne County area (8 wcal + Orr, Tri, Tus, Black River, Loudenville)

I would also throw the Deep Southeast/Lawrence County area in ahead of us.....Ironton, Coal Grove Bryant Dawson & Wheelersburg...tons of appearences out of those 3 alone.

also Cincinnati area with Wyoming, Mariemont and the now defunct CAPE?.....several titles and numerous appearences there.

then there's the Dayton area with Germantown Valley View, Brookville, Kettering Alder

and the conversation has to include the conference with Columbiana Crestview & North Lima South Range.....they've ended alot of WCAL playoff runs.

Kirtland and Cuyahoga Hts and the Eastern Cleveland area schools?....not sure the WCAL is hands down better than that group.

Columbus Catholic schools? (Hartley, Ready, etc)

Of course there's arguments to made made over all of this, but this is my reasoning for calling the Wayne County area average. This is clearly a deep well and we could split hairs over who's small and who's not and who recruits and who doesn't....but at the end of the day, this area has 2 titles and a bunch of appearences......unfortunately many areas can claim more of both.

most of the time I think your opinions are very straight up and truthful.....this one, I think you're wearing the Wayne colored glasses on....but none the less enjoy your take.

Are they a little rosy... ya... I will say this... Sorry... I don't count the Ursulines and Mooneys and private schools in this debate... I've made my opinion on those situations and the unfair practices... They can easily manipulate numbers and anyone who says that they don't or have a way of knowing who is coming into their school is clueless, ignorant, or dumb.

I feel that our best teams could and have competed with the Irontons, Valley Views, and Monroe Centrals. The only Cleveland area schools that I can personally recall ending a WCAL playoff run were privates. (Right or wrong I don't count them) With the exception of the MAC schools I think we handle our business as well as any other small school league.

Bloody Toothbrush;1283992 wrote:I think Northwestern made a regional final appearence in 2005, if true, that would be 3 in 8 years....but it's all inconsequential. Comparisons of different eras that in OHSAA football is difficult at best. Some schools that used to be small are now large, the playoff system changed to include more teams....you could make an argument either way on that alone. When it comes to this old/new big 3 stuff, it has changed and will change again.




I don't know Jmar....you're giving Wayne County an awful lot of credit. What about...

The Mahoning County area bunch...Warren JFK, Campbell Memorial, McDonald, Ursuline, etc...that area has many more appearences and titles than the Wayne County area (8 wcal + Orr, Tri, Tus, Black River, Loudenville)

I would also throw the Deep Southeast/Lawrence County area in ahead of us.....Ironton, Coal Grove Bryant Dawson & Wheelersburg...tons of appearences out of those 3 alone.

also Cincinnati area with Wyoming, Mariemont and the now defunct CAPE?.....several titles and numerous appearences there.

then there's the Dayton area with Germantown Valley View, Brookville, Kettering Alder

and the conversation has to include the conference with Columbiana Crestview & North Lima South Range.....they've ended alot of WCAL playoff runs.

Kirtland and Cuyahoga Hts and the Eastern Cleveland area schools?....not sure the WCAL is hands down better than that group.

Columbus Catholic schools? (Hartley, Ready, etc)

Of course there's arguments to made made over all of this, but this is my reasoning for calling the Wayne County area average. This is clearly a deep well and we could split hairs over who's small and who's not and who recruits and who doesn't....but at the end of the day, this area has 2 titles and a bunch of appearences......unfortunately many areas can claim more of both.

most of the time I think your opinions are very straight up and truthful.....this one, I think you're wearing the Wayne colored glasses on....but none the less enjoy your take.

dalton is .500 against inter tri-county league tms mineral ridge south range. wcal is very good league some yrs we will make a good run, some we won't win at all !yes northwestern did make reg final 05 got beat by south range .

I believe Smithville is 2-2 vs the Mahoning Valley teams..maybe 2-1?

I just went and looked at the week 7 pick-em. There are 2 people that actually picked Chippewa over Waynedale! Sad thing is I think they might be right! What has happened to Waynedale football? The whole program has fallen apart. There were barely any fans in the stands Friday night and some of those fans left after only 1 quarter. If I didn't have to be there I would have left too! It really was hard to watch. One thing that really confused me was the point where they took the starters out. They didn't even put in their JV starters they just threw in random players. Then again after the 72 to 30 score the JV posted on Saturday maybe no one should be playing! It was embarrassing. What was even more embarassing was the way the fans were acting. Parents of JV players being disrespectful to the Varsity players, other parents yelling to the Freshman JV quarterback to act like a football player and learn to take a hit! Really?!?!?!
And now I hear that the boys aren't even hitting in practice, they are "saving it all for Friday night"! Someone, somewhere on that team needs to learn to tackle! I understand being gun shy after all the injuries but what happened to WAYNEDALE FOOTBALL?!?!?!?! This is NOT it!

being disrespectful only reminds me of one team....rittman. playing against them in 3 sports through middle and hs has only taught me that they have no respect for coaches or eachother. i would hate to see waynedale get to that point. i just picture a zoo over in golden bear land.

855pride;1285089 wrote:being disrespectful only reminds me of one team....rittman. playing against them in 3 sports through middle and hs has only taught me that they have no respect for coaches or eachother. i would hate to see waynedale get to that point. i just picture a zoo over in golden bear land.

I will say with 100% assurance that will never happen with our players under this staff or any staff worth their salt... They teach the right things. If someone crosses that boundary I feel that this staff would yank him so quick. I'm sure though that some crazy will come on here and say Z already lets kids get away with stuff.... O well...

our fans/parents.... well that is a different story and I'm glad BUCKZ is saying it. It's something I've been saying for the last year or two and when WCALfan has brought it up... everyone started bashing him....

Well Waynedale people... you have 3 people now saying that our community might not be as well off as it has been in years past? (not talking talent.... we have that believe it or not... talking attitudes of our players and the people who "support" them and shape their lives outside of the school system. Don't forget that the schools system is now a "safety net" to a lot of people and those people are all so dependent upon until they "wrong" you in some way. Or as a voter at our school levy meetings pointed out... It's a higher form of child care/day care... we don't need to give you all this money to watch our kids)

Are all three of us crazy? Keep living in this fantasy land you live in where everything is alright and you know best and kids are being kids and the other selfish things you promote to your kids.... I'm sure you'll figure it out with the next coach you are actively trying to pursue. Hopefully Richie listens to you crazy folks and does Z a favor and listens to those of you who approach him asking for a "new direction" a "better leader" and the other BS you've told our Superintendent behind our coach's back...

thought I'd throw this in as a salute to better times before the Waynedale coaching debate reignites....

Bloody Toothbrush;1285288 wrote:

thought I'd throw this in as a salute to better times before the Waynedale coaching debate reignites....

On a Miyagi level this is a FAIL! The cat is cute and it is almost a funny pic. Not a gross and disgusting pic at all!

Nice try though!

For the Dogs this week I would like to see us make some plays (We're do to at least play well against a good team). I would like to score on their ones at least once. Then focus on winning the last 3 and build solid momentum going into next season.

Let's look at some other coaches around the league.....

Mike Doty.....this guy has had no breaks, first he gets passed over for Billker, who pads his resume with the talent from the 3 headed monster (Hackett, Blevins & Lint) riding them into a 12 game season. Then when it's time to rebuild....Billker bolts, leaving Doty to do the heavy lifting and suffer through the hard times. I think it will payoff in the end though. The hometown hero Doty will lead the Dawgs back to contention in 2014 or so.

Bill Dennis....Underwhelming & Overated are the terms that come to mind when I'm feeling generous. Program Killer & hack are probably better terms IMO. I won't say to much more though as Billy boy continues to prove his critics right. The tribe needs to find a new chief....pronto!

Kevin Wolf....Chippewa hasn't been good in a decade, Wolf hasn't been able to turn things around. That doesn't speak well for job security in todays high school climate. He needs a fresh start...............somewhere else.

Tom Williams....The god of Jeromesville. Deserves all the credit he gets. Hillsdale has gone from zero to hero under his command.

Mike Thut....He turned an utterly inept program in to a respectable football team and occasional contender. Hopefully Northwestern doesn't let him get away.

Brent Bescancon....Proven winner everywhere he's been is the upside. The downside is he's kind of got a hired gun reputation and his rise to head coach at Smithville was controversial & cloudy....that aside, he's another hometown hero who will have the Smithies back in future contention.

Joe Harbour....with his state championship resume and by most accounts, 3-4 more years of above average talent......things are looking pretty sunny for Harbour. The lingering question always seems to be will he get hired away by a larger school that offers more than Norwayne can provde.

and finally Matt Zuercher.....He's won before, can he win again? So much has been said and I'm not sure what's true and what isn't. I do know change for the sake of change is sometimes a good thing.......and sometimes it's not.




and for GoFalcs....

^^^ When did you take a picture of my Koi pond?