Voters already trying to push OSU into title game. OSU jumps over Stanford

Home ▸ Archive ▸ College Sports ▸ Voters already trying to push OSU into title game. OSU jumps over Stanford
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:15 PM
ts1227;989244 wrote:But if the goal is to ultimately match #1 vs. #2, **** like this can happen.
I just don't see how Bama should only have to beat LSU once to win the national title, but LSU would have had to beat Alabama twice to win it.
Nov 27, 2011 2:15pm
V

vball10set

paying it forward

24,795 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:16 PM
cats gone wild;989083 wrote:I would like to see LSU vs OSU, but can OSU beat Oklahoma? As Ive said in another thread, I would love to see LSU play the best teams from the Big 12, Pac 12 and SEC. If LSU plays/beats OSU, they will have wins over the best teams from the best conferences besides the B1G
fixed for accuracy :p
Nov 27, 2011 2:16pm
ts1227's avatar

ts1227

Senior Member

12,319 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:16 PM
dwccrew;989247 wrote:I just don't see how Bama should only have to beat LSU once to win the national title, but LSU would have had to beat Alabama twice to win it.
I agree, but their only charge is to place #1 vs. #2 in the title game. It is a stupid quirk, and I don't think anyone denies that.
Nov 27, 2011 2:16pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:17 PM
jordo212000;989235 wrote:Pro-BCS folk like to talk about how in the current system, every week is a playoff. But how would that be the case if Bama gets in? Shouldnt they be "eliminated"?

Bama had their shot.
By your logic, OSU should be eliminated because they had their shot to make the title game but lost to Iowa State. Stanford had their shot and lost to Oregon. Oregon had their shot but lost to LSU and USC.

Who cares if 'Bama already had their shot? So did everyone else. And everyone else lost to a team that's worse than the team Alabama lost to, by 3, in overtime.

Alabama is without a doubt the 2nd best team in the country.
Nov 27, 2011 2:17pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:19 PM
dwccrew;989247 wrote:I just don't see how Bama should only have to beat LSU once to win the national title, but LSU would have had to beat Alabama twice to win it.
Championship game carries more weight than a regular season game. Why do you have a problem with that? Once the national championship pairing is announced, what happened up to that point is irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is winning the championship game.
Nov 27, 2011 2:19pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:23 PM
lhslep134;989264 wrote:Championship game carries more weight than a regular season game. Why do you have a problem with that? Once the national championship pairing is announced, what happened up to that point is irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is winning the championship game.
I have a problem with it because it gives Alabama an advantage. In football, it is very difficult to beat a team twice in one season. I understand that a championship game carries more weight than the regular season game, but at the same time, the championship is awarded to a champion of the entire season. The entire body of work. They will have split games in the season if Bama ended up winning the second match-up. Not only that, LSU will have to play an extra game as well (SEC championship game).
Nov 27, 2011 2:23pm
C

cats gone wild

Senior Member

2,651 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:25 PM
dwccrew;989276 wrote:I have a problem with it because it gives Alabama an advantage. In football, it is very difficult to beat a team twice in one season. I understand that a championship game carries more weight than the regular season game, but at the same time, the championship is awarded to a champion of the entire season. The entire body of work. They will have split games in the season if Bama ended up winning the second match-up. Not only that, LSU will have to play an extra game as well (SEC championship game).
I might for once agree with you on something.:thumbup:
Nov 27, 2011 2:25pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:27 PM
dwccrew;989276 wrote:They will have split games in the season if Bama ended up winning the second match-up. .
If you understand that the championship carries more weight, then it's not a true "split", because Alabama would have won the more meaningful game and LSU would have won the less meaningful game. In most years the regular season games normally carry more weight, but because of the mess this year, the regular season games have become devalued almost as if there is a playoff. You can't fault Alabama for that.

So if the Packers beat the Patriots in the regular season, but the Patriots win the Super Bowl, wouldn't that be illegitimate because it's a split? No, because of the value placed on the Super Bowl. Normally comparing the NFL to the NCAA is apples to oranges because of the devaluation of the NFL regular season, but I think that this college football regular season has been pretty much devalued by mediocrity (which is normally not the case).

The NFL playoffs are supposed to prove who is #1 and who is #2, and I think that this regular season has shown us that LSU and Alabama are CLEARLY #1 and #2.
Nov 27, 2011 2:27pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:28 PM
cats gone wild;989289 wrote:I might for once agree with you on something.:thumbup:
That's because you know that Alabama is the only team that can beat LSU.
Nov 27, 2011 2:28pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:32 PM
lhslep134;989300 wrote:If you understand that the championship carries more weight, then it's not a true "split", because Alabama would have won the more meaningful game and LSU would have won the less meaningful game. In most years the regular season games normally carry more weight, but because of the mess this year, the regular season games have become devalued almost as if there is a playoff. You can't fault Alabama for that.
Nor am I faulting them. It is a split, regardless of which game is more meaningful. One could argue that LSU winning at night at Bama is a better/tougher win than Bama winning at a neutral site in the championship game.
Nov 27, 2011 2:32pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:34 PM
dwccrew;989331 wrote:One could argue that LSU winning at night at Bama is a better/tougher win than Bama winning at a neutral site in the championship game.
That would be one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.
Nov 27, 2011 2:34pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:39 PM
lhslep134;989340 wrote:That would be one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard.
I don't think so. LSU went into a hostile environment on the road and won. Bama wouldn't have to face the same kind of atmosphere to win. In this scenario, Bama has the easier road to the championship. Only have to beat a team once (that has already beat you) and play one less game. IMO (which means as much or little as anyone else on here), Bama hasn't earned the right to go to the title game. They have beaten one top ten team (Arkansas) and that is it. What other team that they beat will end up ranked? LSU beat Oregon, Arkansas and Bama (possibly Georgia in SEC title game). Much tougher road to the championship. Yet all Bama has to do is win 1 game?

I guess if anything this would further show how much of a joke the BCS is.
Nov 27, 2011 2:39pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:43 PM
dwccrew;989352 wrote:Yet all Bama has to do is win 1 game?
Yes, except you're ignoring the fact that the 1 game is the national championship game, and you're comparing a regular season game to the national championship. For whatever reason, it's almost like you're admitting the illogical nature of your argument, because the national championship CLEARLY carries more weight (which you admitted in a previous post), which makes it harder to win than any single regular season game.
Nov 27, 2011 2:43pm
C

cats gone wild

Senior Member

2,651 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:44 PM
lhslep134;989300 wrote:If you understand that the championship carries more weight, then it's not a true "split", because Alabama would have won the more meaningful game and LSU would have won the less meaningful game. In most years the regular season games normally carry more weight, but because of the mess this year, the regular season games have become devalued almost as if there is a playoff. You can't fault Alabama for that.

So if the Packers beat the Patriots in the regular season, but the Patriots win the Super Bowl, wouldn't that be illegitimate because it's a split? No, because of the value placed on the Super Bowl. Normally comparing the NFL to the NCAA is apples to oranges because of the devaluation of the NFL regular season, but I think that this college football regular season has been pretty much devalued by mediocrity (which is normally not the case).

The NFL playoffs are supposed to prove who is #1 and who is #2, and I think that this regular season has shown us that LSU and Alabama are CLEARLY #1 and #2.
I can see your point too. But, the posts afterwards by dwccrew....I can still see his point. Good argument, and the BCS is a joke.
But, I still agree that LSU/BAMA are clearly the best 2 teams, and that's usually what national championships are about.
Nov 27, 2011 2:44pm
C

cats gone wild

Senior Member

2,651 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:46 PM
Ouch,coaches poll doesnt help OSU out. #5
Nov 27, 2011 2:46pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:49 PM
lhslep134;989354 wrote:Yes, except you're ignoring the fact that the 1 game is the national championship game, and you're comparing a regular season game to the national championship. For whatever reason, it's almost like you're accepting the illogical nature of your argument, because the national championship CLEARLY carries more weight (which you admitted in a previous post), which makes it harder to win than any single regular season game.
Again, I am not arguing the fact that if Bama wins the national title game over LSU, they shouldn't be the champs, only that they have had an easier road to get there, which is why I don't think they deserve a shot at it.

The BCS is not set up fairly, I think everyone can agree with that. They can manipulate formulas, polls and put who they want in. Hell, in the 13-14 years we've had the BCS the formula has changed several times.
Nov 27, 2011 2:49pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:55 PM
dwccrew;989367 wrote: only that they have had an easier road to get there
How is Alabama's road any easier than OSU's or Stanford's? Neither of those teams will be playing in conference title games.
Nov 27, 2011 2:55pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 2:59 PM
lhslep134;989382 wrote:How is Alabama's road any easier than OSU's or Stanford's? Neither of those teams will be playing in conference title games.
It isn't easier than those two listed teams, but it isn't harder either and they have already proven that they are not as good as LSU, which is why I think the other two teams, mainly OSU, should get a shot before Bama.
Nov 27, 2011 2:59pm
W

WebFire

Go Bucks!

14,779 posts
Nov 27, 2011 3:01 PM
dwccrew;989276 wrote:I have a problem with it because it gives Alabama an advantage. In football, it is very difficult to beat a team twice in one season. I understand that a championship game carries more weight than the regular season game, but at the same time, the championship is awarded to a champion of the entire season. The entire body of work. They will have split games in the season if Bama ended up winning the second match-up. Not only that, LSU will have to play an extra game as well (SEC championship game).
So you disagree with every pro sport then? Hell, the Bears played the Packers 3 times last year, and could have eliminated them by winning only the last one.
Nov 27, 2011 3:01pm
Azubuike24's avatar

Azubuike24

Senior Member

15,933 posts
Nov 27, 2011 3:03 PM
Crimson streak;989134 wrote:Agreed 100 % no one wants to see that **** fest again. And if osu beats Oklahoma you can argue they have better wins then bama
Alabama would have a higher SOS, higher Sagarin rating and a much better loss. If Oklahoma State were to get in, it would simply be because the human voters had influence on it. Simple as that.
Nov 27, 2011 3:03pm
lhslep134's avatar

lhslep134

why so serious?

9,774 posts
Nov 27, 2011 3:05 PM
WebFire;989399 wrote:So you disagree with every pro sport then? Hell, the Bears played the Packers 3 times last year, and could have eliminated them by winning only the last one.
Normally you can't compare pro sports versus NCAA football because of the devaluation of the regular season caused by the playoff format. I think that type of devaluation of the regular season has occurred this year, which is why I have no problem with Alabama getting another shot when in most years I would.

Sorry, but OSU had their shot (Iowa State), Oregon had their shot (USC, LSU), and Stanford had their shot (Oregon). Every single one of those teams has a loss that's worse than Alabama's, and IMO none of them has a better win (besides Oregon's win over Stanford, but then they lost to USC).
Nov 27, 2011 3:05pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 3:05 PM
WebFire;989399 wrote:So you disagree with every pro sport then? Hell, the Bears played the Packers 3 times last year, and could have eliminated them by winning only the last one.
The difference is that pro sports have a tournament format, the BCS is not a tournament format. Other teams would be able to knock the Bears off in the NFL, the Bears wouldn't just beat the Packers and be crowned champs, they'd have to play other games.

In the BCS, all Alabama has to do is win one game.
Nov 27, 2011 3:05pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 3:06 PM
lhslep134;989411 wrote:Normally you can't compare pro sports versus NCAA football because of the devaluation of the regular season caused by the playoff format. I think that type of devaluation of the regular season has occurred this year, which is why I have no problem with Alabama getting another shot when in most years I would.

Sorry, but OSU had their shot (Iowa State), Oregon had their shot (USC, LSU), and Stanford had their shot (Oregon). Every single one of those teams has a loss that's worse than Alabama's.
I am not aware that a "better" loss factors into BCS rankings. Does that factor in? I genuinely don't know.
Nov 27, 2011 3:06pm
S

sportswizuhrd

Senior Member

3,215 posts
Nov 27, 2011 3:11 PM
By saying OSU should get it because Bama had their chance, punishes Bama because they play in the same conference. All conference's aren't equal. Big East and ACC proves that.
Nov 27, 2011 3:11pm
dwccrew's avatar

dwccrew

Not Banned

7,817 posts
Nov 27, 2011 3:16 PM
sportswizuhrd;989439 wrote:By saying OSU should get it because Bama had their chance, punishes Bama because they play in the same conference. All conference's aren't equal. Big East and ACC proves that.
They had their chance against LSU, just like Oregon had their chance against LSU (if Oregon was a 1-loss team). We know who the better team is between these teams because they have faced each other. OSU has not faced LSU yet, so we don't know who would win. We can speculate all we want, but the fact remains that we truly don't know who is better. Between Alabama and LSU and Oregon and LSU, we do know who is better since the games have been played.

I am a big advocate of a playoff in college football, we then wouldn't have to worry about placing teams in a championship, they could earn it by winning in a tournament format.
Nov 27, 2011 3:16pm