LTrain23 wrote: I was hard on Brady myself, but I always felt he deserved a fair chance, which he is finally getting. His last 4 games have been pretty damn solid.

I'll keep disagreeing with that. He was terrible again tonight. The fact that simply not doing poorly enough to lose the game is worthy of praise speaks volumes about our QB situation.

31.6%, 4.7 yards per attempt, 48.1 rating. There is no way you can spin those numbers into not being awful. Sure he isn't throwing the ball to the other team, but he wasn't throwing the ball to our team either.

OK, on topic, Rob Ryan is a beast. The best thing Mangini has done as coach was make him D-coordinator. Great game plan, great execution. A+ for the D tonight.

I don't see any team throwing for 423 yards in that cold.

Well Brady was better than Big Ben tonight. I think you're disregarding the weather--there is something to be said for him outplaying Big Ben, even though I won't argue that the Browns defense gets more credit than anyone for the win tonight. Wright played the way he's capable of for a whole 4 quarters which I liked seeing--if they get Berry they're going to be tough to throw against next year. Assuming they can see what they did in this game and carry it on.

Mulva wrote:

LTrain23 wrote: I was hard on Brady myself, but I always felt he deserved a fair chance, which he is finally getting. His last 4 games have been pretty damn solid.

I'll keep disagreeing with that. He was terrible again tonight. The fact that simply not doing poorly enough to lose the game is worthy of praise speaks volumes about our QB situation.

31.6%, 4.7 yards per attempt, 48.1 rating. There is no way you can spin those numbers into not being awful. Sure he isn't throwing the ball to the other team, but he wasn't throwing the ball to our team either.

In this weather, what exactly did you expect? Big Ben didn't have a good game either. The fact is, in terms of games played, Quinn is still a rookie. He doesn't have legit talent around him. He's put up some good numbers recently, there is no denying that. You obviously have it embedded into your head that no matter what this guy does, it simply isn't good enough.

Mulva wrote:OK, on topic, Rob Ryan is a beast. The best thing Mangini has done as coach was make him D-coordinator. Great game plan, great execution. A+ for the D tonight.

We agree here.

^ 100% false.

I said just last week the San Diego game was the best I've seen him play and he looked excellent. I then followed that up by saying he had been terrible the week before (against the Bengals) and hadn't shown nearly enough consistency to sell me on him being a legitimate NFL starter.

There is nothing embedded in my head.

18/32, 201 yards, 56.3%, 6.3 per attempt, 75.1 rating for Big Ben. Not a good game, but nowhere near 31.6% passing and 4.7 per attempt.

Since the bye week Brady has gone horrible, great, horrible, great, horrible. That's just not good enough for me. And I do know he doesn't have the weapons around him. That still doesn't excuse 6/19 to me.

But agree to disagree I guess. Beating the Steelers = too good of a night to keep arguing.

I'm not really arguing, just debating with you..

But again, horrible, great, horrible, great, horrible...

That's inconsistency, yes, but what do you expect from a guy getting his first real shot and lacks skill players around him?

He's not going to be a great QB overnight, but he definitely has the skills and IQ to be a very good one.

I'm hoping he is, we don't need to waste anymore money on another QB.

I don't suppose playing Detroit one week and Cinci the next weighs in the discussion? Gotta judge a little by who you're playing.

I just don't see judging him based on his surrounding weapons, my god they're rookies.

Mulva wrote:

LTrain23 wrote: I was hard on Brady myself, but I always felt he deserved a fair chance, which he is finally getting. His last 4 games have been pretty damn solid.

I'll keep disagreeing with that. He was terrible again tonight. The fact that simply not doing poorly enough to lose the game is worthy of praise speaks volumes about our QB situation.

31.6%, 4.7 yards per attempt, 48.1 rating. There is no way you can spin those numbers into not being awful. Sure he isn't throwing the ball to the other team, but he wasn't throwing the ball to our team either.

OK, on topic, Rob Ryan is a beast. The best thing Mangini has done as coach was make him D-coordinator. Great game plan, great execution. A+ for the D tonight.

The wind had a lot to do with Quinn's numbers tonight. Roethlesberger was just as bad.

Quinn's last 4 games...no ints and 7 touchdown passes.

He may not be the answer...but he's 10 times better than Derek Anderson.

Footwedge wrote:
The wind had a lot to do with Quinn's numbers tonight. Roethlesberger was just as bad.

Quinn's last 4 games...no ints and 7 touchdown passes.

He may not be the answer...but he's 10 times better than Derek Anderson.

OK, you sucked me back in, 1 more post about Quinn.

I posted Big Ben's stats. Nowhere near as bad. Not even close.

Agree on the second point though. I thought DA was the better QB coming into the year, but there is just no way to defend his performance this season and most of last year. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. But all that really matters to me is the answer, and I don't see him on this roster.

Oh, and I know you were debating and not really arguing LTrain. I wasn't sitting here screaming at my computer when I read your post either just to make that clear

Go Browns!

ytownfootball wrote: I don't suppose playing Detroit one week and Cinci the next weighs in the discussion? Gotta judge a little by who you're playing.

I just don't see judging him based on his surrounding weapons, my god they're rookies.

Exactly, and while Quinn looked great against Detroit, let's not forget that Carson Palmer did not against that same Detroit defense...

This is the NFL, you still have to execute no matter who your opponent is..

Mulva wrote:

Footwedge wrote:
The wind had a lot to do with Quinn's numbers tonight. Roethlesberger was just as bad.

Quinn's last 4 games...no ints and 7 touchdown passes.

He may not be the answer...but he's 10 times better than Derek Anderson.

OK, you sucked me back in, 1 more post about Quinn.

I posted Big Ben's stats. Nowhere near as bad. Not even close.

Agree on the second point though. I thought DA was the better QB coming into the year, but there is just no way to defend his performance this season and most of last year. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. But all that really matters to me is the answer, and I don't see him on this roster.

Oh, and I know you were debating and not really arguing LTrain. I wasn't sitting here screaming at my computer when I read your post either just to make that clear

Go Browns!

You just shut your mouth when you're talking to me!

But yes, GO Browns! The Cleveland Motherfuckin' Browns!

Mulva wrote:

Footwedge wrote:
The wind had a lot to do with Quinn's numbers tonight. Roethlesberger was just as bad.

Quinn's last 4 games...no ints and 7 touchdown passes.

He may not be the answer...but he's 10 times better than Derek Anderson.

OK, you sucked me back in, 1 more post about Quinn.

I posted Big Ben's stats. Nowhere near as bad. Not even close.

Agree on the second point though. I thought DA was the better QB coming into the year, but there is just no way to defend his performance this season and most of last year. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. But all that really matters to me is the answer, and I don't see him on this roster.

Oh, and I know you were debating and not really arguing LTrain. I wasn't sitting here screaming at my computer when I read your post either just to make that clear

Go Browns!

No...Ben's numbers were in fact just as bad....each quarterback gained 4.4 yards per pass play. At least half of the sacks tonight fall directly on the shoulder of the q'back when he fails to get rid of it.

This is Quinn's first stint as a quarterback. Give the guy a little slack.

One thing is for sure, Mike Tomlin and the Steelers have unleashed HELL on everybody!

Rob Ryan called a great game. He deserves a lot of credit.

That defense was great.
I liked how they were all moving around before the snap showing the steelers different looks before every play. The steelers had no clue what was coming and it showed with alll the sacks last night.
GO BROWNS!!!!!

On the one Pitt drive in the second quarter where there was 3 straight sacks, Cleve had a 3-man D-line, and all 3 made it to Ben. That was just sweet. They just totally collapsed the O-line.

Back to Rob Ryan.

I keep hearing, if Mangini is gone, you can not hire the OC before the head coach or the head coach before the GM. Now what would be the difference in retaining Ryan before hiring a GM or HC? It would be a big mistake lose him.

agree Ryan's defense has looked good all season even with the injuries, my only concern is dude needs to back away from the buffet line and mix in a salad.

Huge win for the Browns. I'm glad they gave you fans something to be happy about this year. Quinn still has A LOT to prove before I eat my crow. It certainly wasn't him that impressed me last night with his 6-19 for 90yds, it was that nasty defense. He's improved and that's all you can ask for. It looks like the Browns are done with their pity party and have decided to go down fighting the rest of the year.

Let's be reasonable here, Quinn may or may not be the long term solution, but I would think that we all have learned that a rookie QB on a mediocre to bad team is a disaster. Quinn needs to be the starting QB next year with a solid veteran backup as the #2. If they can find a rookie QB in the late rounds or steal one late in the 2nd or 3rd, let him learn as a 3rd stringer.

This QB carousel of rookies and retreads isn't working. Let's allow a smart and at least moderately talented QB get a shot for a full season before we draft another Tim Couch or sign another Trent Dilfer. We are fortunate that Quinn had the toughness to endure the debacle that Mangini put him through this year. If the Browns are not committed to him as the starting QB for next year, then release or trade him at the end of this season. Hanging on to guys that they have toyed with as starters in the past is what has stuck them with flame-out performances from guys like Kelly Holcomb, Derek Anderson, and Tim Couch. It's time for a new approach.

I'm not saying he is a long term solution--they definitely need to stick with him next year because they need to build a team before they worry about bringing in a QB who is going to make shitty players good. But I'm eating my crow because I didn't think he should even be on the field--I wasn't blown away by him last night, but I can't like I completely expected him to lose the game for the Browns at some point. Would have taken ONE mistake in a game like that--and he didn't make it so he proved me wrong.

I still think DA is better (hard for either of them to be good with the bullshit they have for skill players) but I'm now of the opinion that they need to ship DA off and get rid of the QB controversy. Stick with Brady for at least a year until you can bring in someone with some REAL potential. They definitely need to fill other needs first, but he did what he had to do to win and I'll give him his credit there.

Never know. Fill the other needs first and we may have our QB already.

I think Mangini could be a Coughlin-like coach. Remember when everyone wanted to run Coughlin out of New York, and there were supposedly alot of players upset w/ his strict approach to the team? I think the Browns are in a good position now that Edwards and Lewis are now gone. Would love to see Weis replace Daboll, but I think Mangini and definitely Ryan need time. This upcoming draft will make or break Mangini.

Good luck trying to ship DA. Not too many teams will jump at that contract.

se-alum wrote: I think Mangini could be a Coughlin-like coach. Remember when everyone wanted to run Coughlin out of New York, and there were supposedly alot of players upset w/ his strict approach to the team? I think the Browns are in a good position now that Edwards and Lewis are now gone. Would love to see Weis replace Daboll, but I think Mangini and definitely Ryan need time. This upcoming draft will make or break Mangini.

I don't remember Lewis having a problem with discipline. My thing with wanting to replace Mangini now is that there are so many top-notch coaches available right now - Gruden, Billick, Shannahan, Cowher, Fassel - that I think waiting could cost the Browns a shot at a difference-maker among coaches.
If they do keep Mangini, they must replace Daboll. It doesn't have to be Weis, though it would be a good hire, but it should be somebody with previous success as an OC.

jpake1 wrote: Good luck trying to ship DA. Not too many teams will jump at that contract.

Use FedEx if you have to, just ship him somewhere else.