Cleveland Indians Hot Stove---2011-2012

Home ▸ Archive ▸ Pro Sports ▸ Cleveland Indians Hot Stove---2011-2012
IggyPride00's avatar

IggyPride00

Senior Member

6,482 posts
Feb 8, 2012 2:05 PM
GOONx19;1079808 wrote:Keith Law's farm system rankings are out. Indians at 29th, ahead of only the White Sox.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/02/keith-law-ranks-indians-farm-system-29th-in-mlb/
That is an absolute outrage when you consider how many guys we have shipped off over the past 3-4 years in trades.

That the far system is that depleted shows the front office is doing a shitty job of not drafting well, and striking out on our trades.

Add in that we don't/can't sign free agents and you wonder what exactly these guys are getting paid for as far as running the team.
Feb 8, 2012 2:05pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Feb 8, 2012 2:06 PM
GOONx19;1079808 wrote:Keith Law's farm system rankings are out. Indians at 29th, ahead of only the White Sox.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2012/02/keith-law-ranks-indians-farm-system-29th-in-mlb/
Saw this on twitter. Their top prospects from last year are either w/ the Tribe (Kipnis/Chisenhall) or were traded (White/Pomeranz). Most of their talent right now is at AA or lower, which is why you have seen all these borderline major leaguers signed this offseason. They really don't have any major league ready prospects that aren't already in the majors.
Feb 8, 2012 2:06pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

Senior Member

1,588 posts
Feb 8, 2012 2:08 PM
Wooball;1079838 wrote:Saw this on twitter. Their top prospects from last year are either w/ the Tribe (Kipnis/Chisenhall) or were traded (White/Pomeranz). Most of their talent right now is at AA or lower, which is why you have seen all these borderline major leaguers signed this offseason. They really don't have any major league ready prospects that aren't already in the majors.
This. The low ranking doesn't mean we don't have talent. It means that we don't have a lot in the upper levels because our most recent crop is in the majors. We do have a couple of guys in the Baseball Prospectus Top 100.
Feb 8, 2012 2:08pm
royal_k's avatar

royal_k

Senior Member

4,423 posts
Feb 8, 2012 4:09 PM
Trading our top 2 pitching prospects really lowers the grade for those close to Big League ready. But we have some very promising players in Single and Double A. Time will tell just how good some of these guys are.
Feb 8, 2012 4:09pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Feb 8, 2012 4:45 PM
It doesn't bother me too much that the farm is ranked low as alot of our 'prospects' are on varsity. It does bothetr me that we traded our two best pitching prospects, to get a guy to take advantage of the 'window', but then won't spend to improve the team, and essentially do nothing.
Feb 8, 2012 4:45pm
OQB's avatar

OQB

Senior Member

6,679 posts
Feb 8, 2012 8:44 PM
HitsRus;1080067 wrote:It doesn't bother me too much that the farm is ranked low as alot of our 'prospects' are on varsity. It does bothetr me that we traded our two best pitching prospects, to get a guy to take advantage of the 'window', but then won't spend to improve the team, and essentially do nothing.
If you really stand back and look at it, we actually got worse and the window is sealed shut thanks to Dolan.
Feb 8, 2012 8:44pm
hoops23's avatar

hoops23

Senior Member

15,696 posts
Feb 8, 2012 9:49 PM
Yeah, makes no sense...

I don't expect them to land Pujols or Prince.. But if you're going to trade Pom and White for Ubaldo and tell the fans you're going for it now, then prove it.

Don't make these half-ass signings and basically waste Ubaldo and Masterson. You could have thrown Oswalt into the rotation and signed Cuddyer...

Let Grady walk and use that 5 million to throw at somebody else, a guy like Carlos Pena.
Feb 8, 2012 9:49pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

Senior Member

1,588 posts
Feb 9, 2012 12:10 AM
Oswalt was never coming here. We had interest but it takes two to tango. Also, Pena took less money to return to Tampa Bay so the only way we could have signed him would have been to grossly overpay him which I'm glad we didn't do.

I've got no explanation for not pursuing Cuddyer. He would have been a decent fit.
Feb 9, 2012 12:10am
grodt's avatar

grodt

Senior Member

1,588 posts
Feb 10, 2012 2:37 PM
Indians and Asdrubal Cabrera agree to a one-year deal thus avoiding arbitration. Deal is worth $4.55 million. This does not mean he still won't sign an extension, it simply avoids going through arbitration. It also means that there is no one under contract beyond 2012.
Feb 10, 2012 2:37pm
dazedconfused's avatar

dazedconfused

Senior Member

2,662 posts
Feb 10, 2012 2:51 PM
what is the big taboo about avoiding arbitration? does it just become some sort of free-for-all and by the end, asdrubal ends up with like a 14 million contract or something similar? just curious
Feb 10, 2012 2:51pm
Wooball's avatar

Wooball

Senior Member

1,325 posts
Feb 10, 2012 3:02 PM
dazedconfused;1082366 wrote:what is the big taboo about avoiding arbitration? does it just become some sort of free-for-all and by the end, asdrubal ends up with like a 14 million contract or something similar? just curious
Basically the club has to go into the hearings and tear down their own player saying why they aren't worth what they are asking for. That is why the club likes to avoid it
Feb 10, 2012 3:02pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

Senior Member

1,588 posts
Feb 10, 2012 3:25 PM
Here's an article that Hoynes wrote about the last time the Indians went to arbitration.
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/02/post_129.html

Basically it's like Wooball said. Teams don't like having to go in there and rip their player then start spring training and saying "we were just kidding, you rock"
Feb 10, 2012 3:25pm
dazedconfused's avatar

dazedconfused

Senior Member

2,662 posts
Feb 10, 2012 3:54 PM
Wooball;1082381 wrote:Basically the club has to go into the hearings and tear down their own player saying why they aren't worth what they are asking for. That is why the club likes to avoid it
grodt;1082404 wrote:Here's an article that Hoynes wrote about the last time the Indians went to arbitration.
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2012/02/post_129.html

Basically it's like Wooball said. Teams don't like having to go in there and rip their player then start spring training and saying "we were just kidding, you rock"
thanks!
Feb 10, 2012 3:54pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

Senior Member

9,206 posts
Feb 10, 2012 11:17 PM
Yeah...it does make for hard feelings and makes it harder to get the player to sign a deal after the team no longer has control. (like that makes a difference for the Tribe) LOL.
Feb 10, 2012 11:17pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Feb 11, 2012 5:17 PM
grodt;1082346 wrote:Indians and Asdrubal Cabrera agree to a one-year deal thus avoiding arbitration. Deal is worth $4.55 million. This does not mean he still won't sign an extension, it simply avoids going through arbitration. It also means that there is no one under contract beyond 2012.
4.5 mil for Druby? What a slap in the face to him. Next year...good bye Druby...we enjoyed watching you play.

Dolan continues to run the best 4A D League on the planet.
Feb 11, 2012 5:17pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

Senior Member

1,588 posts
Feb 11, 2012 7:54 PM
I wouldn't call it a slap in the face. It's right below guys that have have roughly the same stats but have been more consistent. Gotta remember Asdrubal has done this for one year and has been known to have conditioning problems.

I still want the Indians to sign Asdrubal to a long-term contract and that can still happen as we inch closer to spring training.
Feb 11, 2012 7:54pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Feb 11, 2012 9:52 PM
grodt;1083197 wrote:I wouldn't call it a slap in the face. It's right below guys that have have roughly the same stats but have been more consistent. Gotta remember Asdrubal has done this for one year and has been known to have conditioning problems.

I still want the Indians to sign Asdrubal to a long-term contract and that can still happen as we inch closer to spring training.
I disagree. The guy has been the model of consistancy...with one exception...a few years back when he was shipped down for a month.

Astrubel would be payed close to 8 million by most baseball owners. His allegiance to Cleveland will go by the books quickly, and I could see a July trade brewing....for all the wrong reasons.
Feb 11, 2012 9:52pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

Senior Member

1,588 posts
Feb 11, 2012 10:07 PM
Again disagree. Maybe we don't agree on what consistency is. And no he probably wouldn't be getting paid $8 million. Troy Tulowitzki is only making $8.2 this season and he's a much more consistent player.

Look I like Asdrubal, but the Indians aren't going to agree to pay him like a slugging shortstop only to have him regress to his previous power numbers. There is nothing wrong with waiting a little while and then opening dialogue on a long-term deal.
Feb 11, 2012 10:07pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

Senior Member

13,650 posts
Feb 11, 2012 10:45 PM
grodt;1083350 wrote:Again disagree. Maybe we don't agree on what consistency is. And no he probably wouldn't be getting paid $8 million. Troy Tulowitzki is only making $8.2 this season and he's a much more consistent player.
That's really not comparable, because the Rockies gave him a 10 year deal. He's making $8.2 this season, but he'll make $20 mil from 2015-2019.
Feb 11, 2012 10:45pm
F

Footwedge

Senior Member

9,265 posts
Feb 11, 2012 11:52 PM
grodt;1083350 wrote:Again disagree. Maybe we don't agree on what consistency is. And no he probably wouldn't be getting paid $8 million. Troy Tulowitzki is only making $8.2 this season and he's a much more consistent player.

Look I like Asdrubal, but the Indians aren't going to agree to pay him like a slugging shortstop only to have him regress to his previous power numbers. There is nothing wrong with waiting a little while and then opening dialogue on a long-term deal.
Like Mulva said....you can't even try to compare a 1 year 4.5 mil deal with a 100 mil deal given to Tulowitsky. Cabrera has put up very good numbers and I think he was an All Star one year..maybe 2.

And it's not like his resume is only 2 years old. If that baby ended up in arbitration, he lands a minimum of 7 million....for a one year deal.

With all that said....why not sign people to long term deals? I get it that Pronk, Sizemore, and Fausto all backfired. Is that a good reason to completely quit?

If so, sell the team and buy some Nevada whorehouses or something.
Feb 11, 2012 11:52pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

Senior Member

1,588 posts
Feb 12, 2012 1:03 AM
Mulva;1083373 wrote:That's really not comparable, because the Rockies gave him a 10 year deal. He's making $8.2 this season, but he'll make $20 mil from 2015-2019.
From his 4th to his 5th years Asdrubal is getting a $2.5 million raise. Troy got a $2 million raise from his 4th to his 5th with much better stats. And that's while in the middle of a multi-year deal. That $8.2 number is from his original extension that he signed after one season. I bet if the Indians extended Cabrera it'd be for similar to what Tulo got so I'd say it is comparable.
Like Mulva said....you can't even try to compare a 1 year 4.5 mil deal with a 100 mil deal given to Tulowitsky. Cabrera has put up very good numbers and I think he was an All Star one year..maybe 2.

And it's not like his resume is only 2 years old. If that baby ended up in arbitration, he lands a minimum of 7 million....for a one year deal.

With all that said....why not sign people to long term deals? I get it that Pronk, Sizemore, and Fausto all backfired. Is that a good reason to completely quit?

If so, sell the team and buy some Nevada whorehouses or something.
Asdrubal made his first All-Star team last season. He wasn't going to land $7 million in arbitration. They pick between the two offers. Asdrubal's offer was $5.1 so that was the max he'd be making this year if it had gone to arbitration.
Feb 12, 2012 1:03am
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

Senior Member

9,002 posts
Feb 13, 2012 3:47 PM
Looks like the tribe has signed Jon garland. Solid pitching depth move
Feb 13, 2012 3:47pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

GOAT

29,506 posts
Feb 13, 2012 4:38 PM
Crimson streak;1084856 wrote:Looks like the tribe has signed Jon garland. Solid pitching depth move
First move/non-move I have agreed with all off-season. I really like it, he is an upgrade over the man formally known as Fausto.
Feb 13, 2012 4:38pm