Cleveland Indians Hot Stove---2011-2012

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like_that

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Jan 25, 2012 4:27 PM
Laley23;1065504 wrote:Gotta stop looking at it that way. Its baseball, so if the owner doesnt care it doesnt matter what he spends. If it was the NBA, a contract like that can cripple a team. But in baseball, it doesnt take up any % of the salary. Its just adding a player. Prince at 214 million for 9 years has the same effect on Illitch and the Tigers as Prince for 50 million over 9 years.

And the guy provides even more protection than Victor did. He gets a lot more RBI, HR, and BBs. This is a terrific deal for Detroit for the foreseeable future (5 yrs). I dont see how anyone can justifiably say it wasnt.
I stand by my comment, even with looking passed the contract amount. Everyone is acting like Fielder all of a sudden makes the Tigers 25 games better than the Tribe. Sorry, there isn't one every day player in baseball that makes their team improve their win total by that much. We will see by the end of the year, but I think at most the tigers will have 3 more wins than last year.
Jan 25, 2012 4:27pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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9,206 posts
Jan 25, 2012 5:00 PM
The Cliff Lee trade was a salary dump, they took what was offered. It was a terrible deal for the Indians. One would have thought they had a gun to their heads.
Jan 25, 2012 5:00pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

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Jan 25, 2012 5:25 PM
like_that;1065509 wrote:I stand by my comment, even with looking passed the contract amount. Everyone is acting like Fielder all of a sudden makes the Tigers 25 games better than the Tribe. Sorry, there isn't one every day player in baseball that makes their team improve their win total by that much. We will see by the end of the year, but I think at most the tigers will have 3 more wins than last year.
I agree with you like_that. The addition of Fielder certainly helps Detroit but not 25 games. I looked at their oWARs for last year since they played different positions:
Fielder: 5.9
Martinez: 3.1

So if we round those, Fielder is worth about 3 more wins offensively, or roughly 27 runs more for the Tigers. It is an upgrade but not as huge as some people are making it seem.
Jan 25, 2012 5:25pm
Crimson streak's avatar

Crimson streak

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9,002 posts
Jan 25, 2012 5:36 PM
Honestly I'm with you t bone. Victor was huge to that team cause of his clutch hitting. We have seen what players have done after big contracts. Fielder could definitely have a down year. I don't think the fielder signing changes much. If fister can do what he did last year then I will get worried
Jan 25, 2012 5:36pm
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wes_mantooth

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17,977 posts
Jan 25, 2012 5:44 PM
I am more worried because they were better than us coming in.....now they are even better. Our shitty front office brings in retreads, while their organization brings in players that will bring excitement and people to the ballpark.

Fuck you Dolan...you are the taint of major league baseball.
Jan 25, 2012 5:44pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

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13,650 posts
Jan 25, 2012 5:54 PM
TBone14;1065482 wrote:They are talking about Miggy at 3rd..with Moon Pie and Prince..that will be a dreadful defensive infield.
Why wouldn't one of them DH?
Jan 25, 2012 5:54pm
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GOONx19

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Jan 25, 2012 6:00 PM
^ I would think Boesch would play third and Cabrera/Fielder would rotate at 1st/DH. At least until Victor gets healthy.
Jan 25, 2012 6:00pm
B

BR1986FB

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24,104 posts
Jan 25, 2012 7:26 PM
And, again, the front office fails us.....


Tribe is out of the Austin Kearns sweepstakes as he signs a minor league deal with the Marlins.
Jan 25, 2012 7:26pm
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jordo212000

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Jan 25, 2012 8:17 PM
Mulva;1065603 wrote:Why wouldn't one of them DH?

Miggy won't play 3rd until Victor Martinez returns from the ACL. Which won't be until the end of the year or next season
Jan 25, 2012 8:17pm
F

Footwedge

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9,265 posts
Jan 25, 2012 8:20 PM
BR1986FB;1065662 wrote:And, again, the front office fails us.....


Tribe is out of the Austin Kearns sweepstakes as he signs a minor league deal with the Marlins.
Can't get any worse for the tribe.....losing AK.....this is exactly what the Colts fans had to go through...losing Peyton this year.
Jan 25, 2012 8:20pm
HitsRus's avatar

HitsRus

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Jan 25, 2012 8:50 PM
Fielder is worth about 3 more wins offensively,
3 games is huge the last week of the season.

If you are Shapiro and Antonetti...what do you think is going thru their minds???? They bust their ass trying to make deals....on the phone back and forth, pinching pennies here, trying to figure out how to move salary so they can make a deal...and the Kittys just come up, drop some big bucks and blow things up. It's gotta be hard coming to work in the morning...like WTF!... Dombrowski has got a cake job. We can't swing a couple $mil to cement a deal....but Illitch can spare $214 of them. That's gotta sting. That's gotta SUCK!
Jan 25, 2012 8:50pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Jan 25, 2012 9:45 PM
Im not saying Fielder is 25 games better. Im saying the Tribe has regressed (despite getting Ubaldo, they are going to be closer to the .500 team we say than the 30-15 team or whatever.

Tigers got Fister, Jackson is a year older and better. Fielder and Cabrera is the best 4/5 in baseball. They have a better closer. They have the best pitcher. They have a catcher who will hit 7th and ours has to be our best player. I honestly thought they were about 15-20 games better coming in. Tribe hasnt done anything to upgrade, and frankly, they werent that good.
Jan 25, 2012 9:45pm
Laley23's avatar

Laley23

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Jan 25, 2012 9:47 PM
jordo212000;1065698 wrote:Miggy won't play 3rd until Victor Martinez returns from the ACL. Which won't be until the end of the year or next season
They are talking putting him at 3rd when Verlander and Scherzer are pitching because not many balls will be put in play, and it will be a good chance to get him comfortable with it. That way in interleague he can play there and if they make the WS.
Jan 25, 2012 9:47pm
grodt's avatar

grodt

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Jan 25, 2012 10:00 PM
Apparently the Tribe has interest in Roy Oswalt.
Jan 25, 2012 10:00pm
Mulva's avatar

Mulva

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Jan 25, 2012 10:03 PM
grodt;1065796 wrote:Apparently the Tribe has interest in Roy Oswalt.
That's a move that could be a game-changer. I think he's still a potential 15 game winner, even at his age. I think it would also mean that Heredia is done as an Indian.

Masterson/Jimenez/Oswalt is a pretty damn solid 1-3. With Tomlin and Lowe to fill out the rotation, suddenly we'd have something going.
Jan 25, 2012 10:03pm
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Laley23

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Jan 25, 2012 10:08 PM
Yeah, if you replace Oswalt for Fausto...er...fuckface that is a legitimate chance at improving the club by 15 games. You dont just get the difference in Fausto and Oswalt, but now Tomlin and Lowe will be moved back in the rotation and face lesser guys each time out (yes, I was considering Tomlin #3 and Lowe #4 and Fuckface #5.
Jan 25, 2012 10:08pm
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hoops23

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Jan 25, 2012 10:13 PM
At first, I saw Heredia and said to myself "Who?"

SMH...
Jan 25, 2012 10:13pm
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Crimson streak

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Jan 25, 2012 10:49 PM
Oswalt would be really nice to this pitching staff. Hopefully we can still get a deal done for Carlos lee or even upton during the season
Jan 25, 2012 10:49pm
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grodt

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Jan 25, 2012 11:03 PM
I still think that our biggest acquisition is going to come during the season via trade. The market right now kinda sucks and it will be better once the season gets going.
Jan 25, 2012 11:03pm
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Mulva

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Jan 25, 2012 11:43 PM
Laley23;1065780 wrote:Im not saying Fielder is 25 games better. Im saying the Tribe has regressed (despite getting Ubaldo, they are going to be closer to the .500 team we say than the 30-15 team or whatever.

Tigers got Fister, Jackson is a year older and better. Fielder and Cabrera is the best 4/5 in baseball. They have a better closer. They have the best pitcher. They have a catcher who will hit 7th and ours has to be our best player. I honestly thought they were about 15-20 games better coming in. Tribe hasnt done anything to upgrade, and frankly, they werent that good.
Agree with all of that. Don't think the Indians are as bad as the 50-67 finish, but they're not anywhere near 30-15 obviously. A .500 record, +/- 3 games either way, seems about right.
Jan 25, 2012 11:43pm
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IggyPride00

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Jan 25, 2012 11:47 PM
I don't see how Oswalt happens.

Last I had seen the Red Sox reportedly had a big interest in him. If it is a bidding war at all there is no way he ends up an Indian.

It fits the mold of an older injury prone pitcher on a 1 year deal the Tribe likes to do, but with the starting pitching market being what it is and Oswalt being the most credible starter out there I just don't see it.
Jan 25, 2012 11:47pm
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BR1986FB

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Jan 26, 2012 5:09 AM
grodt;1065875 wrote:I still think that our biggest acquisition is going to come during the season via trade. The market right now kinda sucks and it will be better once the season gets going.
On 92.3 they keep talking about acquiring Trumbo or Morales, via trade, from the Angels.
Jan 26, 2012 5:09am
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BR1986FB

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Jan 26, 2012 5:21 AM
So Munch Bishop (WKNR) seems to think they have a legit shot at Cespedes. Anyone hearing anything?
Jan 26, 2012 5:21am
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HitsRus

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Jan 26, 2012 7:18 AM
I think the thing that is obvious here is that the Tribe has a lot of interest in a lot of players that can help upgrade the team....Antonetti has said so himself. The problem has been (as we go down the line from free agent to free agent) the money is not there to cement even relatively small 2 year deals. Coming in second place in these bidding wars seems to be a consistent trait of this group. They are either a year too short, or a $million or two short in what they are offering. I think they need to identify the player who can make the most difference and go for it. I have to wonder what trade is out there that can be even an upgrade, let alone a game changer. You are going to have to give up something to get something. The one guy that I thought that would be expendable and actually bring something of value was the player formerly known as Fausto,,,ehhhh not so much now.
Jan 26, 2012 7:18am
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TBone14

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Jan 26, 2012 8:48 AM
Laley23;1065499 wrote:I dont know what Prince you guys have been watching the last 3-4 years, but if you think he isnt a huge upgrade over Victor than it CLEARLY wasnt the same Prince as me.
Huge upgrade?

2011

BA- .299 38 HR 120RBI 30 doubles OBP- .390 106K
BA- .330 12 HR 107RBI 40 doubles OBP- .380 51 K

Obvious which player is which. I think Prince will lose a couple home runs going to Comerica but many of those will lead to extra doubles. But that isn't such a huge upgrade where the Tigers are now favorites to win the World Series like many are saying. They were probably going to win the Central anyways.

Then there is always the whole going from the NL to the AL factor. Aside from Adrian Gonzalez..most guys see a little drop off going from the NL to the AL. Prince probably played 50 games vs the Pirates, Astros and Cubs last year. 3 of the worst teams in baseball. Arguably, the worst team in the Central this year will be the White Sox. He is going to face some stiffer competition this year. I'm not crowning the Tigers yet.

You are down by a run with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th...bases loaded. Do you want Prince or Victor at the dish?

I choose Victor.
Jan 26, 2012 8:48am