sleeper
Posts: 27,879
Oct 18, 2011 10:08pm
Like I said, don't like abortion? Don't have one.believer;938128 wrote:Religious zealots? Yet another easy cop out.
Why not just accept there is a rather large group of Americans who are stunned, appalled and disgusted that a supposed enlightened society seems perfectly OK that it has killed 50 million unborn since 1973 for purposes of convenience?
majorspark
Posts: 5,122
Oct 18, 2011 10:27pm
Sodium pentothal, pancuronium bromide, and potassium chloride. You don't have to worry about taste. They inject it right into your veins.I Wear Pants;938167 wrote:What kind of juice? I love juice, do they offer cranberry juice? If so I may change my outlook on the death penalty and sign up myself. (You'd all like that, get to kill someone and I Wear Pants gone? Proof God exists!)
F
Footwedge
Posts: 9,265
Oct 18, 2011 10:53pm
How any man or woman can abort a child after consensual sex is beyond comprehension to me. Eating vagina or sucking peter yields the same happy endings. Damn, this is not complicated.
G
gut
Posts: 15,058
Oct 18, 2011 11:55pm
"The movement describes itself as a 'coalition of people who dare to imagine a new democracy in which all people regardless of their personnel wealth will have an equal voice in the decisions that affect their lives.'"
So....a communacracy?
So....a communacracy?
believer
Posts: 8,153
Oct 19, 2011 6:11am
While everyone gets their panties in a bunch for the thousands of lives lost fight the War on Terror, we hear crickets when it comes to the 50 million innocent unborn human lives lost under the seemingly innocent moniker "Pro-Choice."sleeper;938171 wrote:Like I said, don't like abortion? Don't have one.
This country is nuts.
Glory Days
Posts: 7,809
Oct 19, 2011 7:43am
so if you are leaderless, what is an organizer doing there?OneBuckeye;938117 wrote:"We are a community group, we do not have leaders, we are a leaderless movement," said organizer Rebecka Hawkins. "So your [tent] assignment would be your own choice of what you wanted to do."
pmoney25
Posts: 1,787
Oct 19, 2011 9:23am
This is me playing more devils advocate than anything else but I do have a question. What is your position on pulling the plug on someone who is brain dead(vegetable)?believer;938349 wrote:While everyone gets their panties in a bunch for the thousands of lives lost fight the War on Terror, we hear crickets when it comes to the 50 million innocent unborn human lives lost under the seemingly innocent moniker "Pro-Choice."
This country is nuts.
I ask because I have heard people who oppose abortion yet approve of pulling the plug. I am not talking about patients rights, if a patient has that in their living will then fine. But lets assume they don't. Is it right for family, Doctor, government to pull the plug?
Abortion has been an issue I have flip flopped on, I probably would say I am on the Pro Life side of things right now. The thing I have struggled with is that you techically do not die until your brain ceases to function (biological death) so logic would seem to say that you technically do not begin life until your brain starts to function?
Like I said, I agree with you on abortion. This is more of a curiosity on my part than an attack on your beliefs.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Oct 19, 2011 9:52am
I'm not really certain what separates a zygote from an unfertilized egg. Women lose unfertilized eggs every month. If only someone would provide sperm we could save all the eggs. Eggs are people too!pmoney25;938441 wrote:so logic would seem to say that you technically do not begin life until your brain starts to function?
Q
QuakerOats
Posts: 8,740
Oct 19, 2011 10:19am
believer;938349 wrote:While everyone gets their panties in a bunch for the thousands of lives lost fight the War on Terror, we hear crickets when it comes to the 50 million innocent unborn human lives lost under the seemingly innocent moniker "Pro-Choice."
This country is nuts.
Right again. You know the country is in serious decay when you can get fined and imprisoned for disturbing a turtle egg on the beach, but have free reign to rip a human fetus out of its mother's womb.
J
jmog
Posts: 6,567
Oct 19, 2011 11:00am
Then you must have failed biology in HS if you don't know what separates a zygote from an egg.FatHobbit;938462 wrote:I'm not really certain what separates a zygote from an unfertilized egg. Women lose unfertilized eggs every month. If only someone would provide sperm we could save all the eggs. Eggs are people too!
dwccrew
Posts: 7,817
Oct 19, 2011 11:17am
I am sure there is tennage girls that are forced by their parents to get abortions.I Wear Pants;937940 wrote:Wasn't aware that anyone is forced to get an abortion.
majorspark;938005 wrote:Its mind boggling that IWP us unwilling to lay a glove on the most heinous killer because of of the very remotest of chances that an innocent life could be taken. Yet he is 100% sure life in the womb is a zygote that can can be killed anytime. These heinous represent more of a zygote than an innocent baby in the womb. I only wish we could off these heinous criminals with the same procedures we use on babies in the womb.
At anytime is a bit of a stretch, their is limits on when an abortion can be done. I disagree with abortion morally, however, I don't think in a free society we should tell people what they can or can't do with their bodies. A fetus is not sustaiable on its own for certain length of time (20-22 weeks I believe) and I believe that is when it is permissable to have an abortion up to that point.
Again, morally I disagree with abortion; but if it were illegal this wouldn't stop women from getting them, only make it less safe and cause more problems with back alley clinics. It is not my job to save them from themselves, I can disagree with it, but I don't think the Roe v. Wade decision should be reversed either.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Oct 19, 2011 11:27am
I know why they are different. I just don't understand why someone would think one is more alive than the other.jmog;938519 wrote:Then you must have failed biology in HS if you don't know what separates a zygote from an egg.
J
jmog
Posts: 6,567
Oct 19, 2011 11:53am
Brain waves, heart beats, full genetic information, doesn't take much thought as to why some people would think there is a difference.FatHobbit;938550 wrote:I know why they are different. I just don't understand why someone would think one is more alive than the other.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Oct 19, 2011 12:15pm
A zygote has brain waves and a heart beat?jmog;938580 wrote:Brain waves, heart beats, full genetic information, doesn't take much thought as to why some people would think there is a difference.
jhay78
Posts: 1,917
Oct 19, 2011 12:42pm
Krispy Kreme Christie compares OWS to the Tea Party:
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/christie-gets-it-wrong-ows-and-tea-party
If OWS is protesting government, they sure picked a bad place to stage themselves.Chris Christie weighed in on the Occupy Wall Street protesters yesterday asserting that they "come from the same perspective" but have "different solutions."
"What they are saying is, that 'Government is not working for me anymore, government is not being fair and government is not helping me the way it should,'" he added.
Christie said that he didn't agree with the solutions of the Occupy Wall Street protesters, but said, "I understand why they are angry."
This is a bit of a disappointment for conservatives, who look to Christie for angry "YouTube moments" deriding liberals.
Christie's attempt to equate the two movements will draw a lot of fire from conservatives, who bristle at any comparison of Occupy Wall Street to the Tea Par tyty
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/christie-gets-it-wrong-ows-and-tea-party
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie's attempt to liken Occupy Wall Street protesters to Tea Party activists demonstrates a gross misunderstanding of both movements.
In a video from a town hall meeting, which my colleague Charlie Spiering posted below, Christie responds to a question on the Wall Street protests by arguing that, “I think if you look at the Occupy Wall Street folks and the Tea Party folks, that they come from the same perspective, they just have different solutions. ”
But in reality, the two movements offer different solutions precisely because they come from different philosophical perspectives.
The general thrust of the Tea Party movement is a belief in individual liberty and personal responsibility. Tea Partiers want government to take as little of their money as possible and provide as few handouts and subsidies as possible.
By contrast, Wall Street protesters are more focused on income inequality, and they believe that government should play an active role alleviating this problem by imposing a bigger burden on wealthier Americans and offering more services to the poor.
Christie insisted that both groups are the same in that, "What they are saying is, 'The Government is not working for me anymore. The government is not being fair and the government is not helping me the way it should.'"
But this suggests a fundamental ignorance of the Tea Party movement. Tea Partiers don't want government to help them, they want government to leave them alone.
There might be superficial overlap between the two groups. For instance, you may find signs at either rally opposing the Wall Street bailout. But the Wall Street protesters who oppose the bailout do so because they think the government should have bailed out other Americans, such as homeowners, instead. Tea Partiers are opposed to the whole idea of using taxpayer money to reward people for their reckless behavior, regardless of their wealth.
To suggest that the two groups have the same perspectives is to say that conservatives and libertarians who supported market-based health care and liberals who advocated a fully socialized health care system came from the "same perspective" when they both opposed Obamacare.
J
jmog
Posts: 6,567
Oct 19, 2011 12:52pm
Notice I said "full genetic information" as well.FatHobbit;938591 wrote:A zygote has brain waves and a heart beat?
Of course a zygote doesn't have a heart beat/brain waves, but the fetus's that are aborted do and that's where most pro life people start drawing the line (verifiable heart beat/brain waves).
Others do stick to inception (hence the zygote discussion).
Personally, I am not 100% sure where life begins.
I 100% believe if it has a heart beat and brain waves it is alive, so abortion after that point should be illegal.
However, I do not know for sure if life begins there or if it would truly begin at inception, because I do not know the answer to that right now, as we speak I am pro life from inception. I would rather be "safe than sorry" when it comes to killing an innocent "life".
If science can prove when life exists and it is after inception, then I maybe ok with early term abortions and the "morning after" pill.
I said maybe, because morally I would still be against it.
FatHobbit
Posts: 8,651
Oct 19, 2011 1:59pm
I think I agree with you. There is a line to be drawn to where "it" is alive or not and I don't understand how people can say definitively it is alive at one point and not another.jmog;938637 wrote:Personally, I am not 100% sure where life begins.
I 100% believe if it has a heart beat and brain waves it is alive, so abortion after that point should be illegal.
However, I do not know for sure if life begins there or if it would truly begin at inception, because I do not know the answer to that right now, as we speak I am pro life from inception. I would rather be "safe than sorry" when it comes to killing an innocent "life".
If science can prove when life exists and it is after inception, then I maybe ok with early term abortions and the "morning after" pill.
I said maybe, because morally I would still be against it.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Oct 19, 2011 2:28pm
Again, that's an unfair comparison because most everyone who thinks abortion should not be illegal disagrees with you that a human life is lost via the morning after pill, early term abortions, etc.believer;938349 wrote:While everyone gets their panties in a bunch for the thousands of lives lost fight the War on Terror, we hear crickets when it comes to the 50 million innocent unborn human lives lost under the seemingly innocent moniker "Pro-Choice."
This country is nuts.
BGFalcons82
Posts: 2,173
Oct 19, 2011 5:44pm
How 'bout that 2nd Amendment, fellas? Can we argue that one for awhile on a thread about the Occupiers?
Maybe we can kick the JFK assassination around a tad bit more, huh? Magic bullet vs. a conspiracy on the grassy knoll.
Or did Jack Ruby act alone?
How about how Reagan is a Progressive?
Enough already about abortion. Sounds like a different topic thread, eh LJ?
Maybe we can kick the JFK assassination around a tad bit more, huh? Magic bullet vs. a conspiracy on the grassy knoll.
Or did Jack Ruby act alone?
How about how Reagan is a Progressive?
Enough already about abortion. Sounds like a different topic thread, eh LJ?
O-Trap
Posts: 14,994
Oct 19, 2011 5:51pm
I'm of the persuasion that whether it's Obama or one of the party-line Republicans, we're getting raped either way.believer;937981 wrote:While I certainly understand and respect your thinking here, it still doesn't justify the eventual results of your convictions. It might make you feel good at the time that you voted for the candidate who best fits your views on how America should be, but the end result is that you allow, by default, the candidate who will rape you more to proceed with the dirty deed.
My hope is the eventual Republican candidate will offer Paul a prominent position in his or her administration in exchange for his endorsement. That's a far, far better scenario than subjecting ourselves to 4 more years of ineptitude beyond imagination.
As such, if someone like Romney or Perry wins, I won't feel much, if any, better about the situation.
If I thought there was a more popular candidate who wasn't going to analrape America, I'd vote for them.
Writerbuckeye
Posts: 4,745
Oct 19, 2011 5:53pm
Christie has always struck me as someone who did his homework diligently in the past -- but if he really believes what he's saying, then I think he's gotten knocked off course somewhere along the line. Many (if not most) of the OWS folks are looking for a handout of some kind from the government; that's the polar opposite of what Tea Party people believe in.
I
I Wear Pants
Posts: 16,223
Oct 19, 2011 6:05pm
What he said was correct.
What is really to disagree with there?"What they are saying is, that 'Government is not working for me anymore, government is not being fair and government is not helping me the way it should,'" he added.Christie said that he didn't agree with the solutions of the Occupy Wall Street protesters, but said, "I understand why they are angry."
jhay78
Posts: 1,917
Oct 19, 2011 6:23pm
OWS main complaint is not an ever-increasing, intrusive, federal government. If it were, they would be on the Mall in DC, not on Wall Street or whatever other city in the US.I Wear Pants;939014 wrote:What he said was correct.
What is really to disagree with there?"What they are saying is, that 'Government is not working for me anymore, government is not being fair and government is not helping me the way it should,'" he added.Christie said that he didn't agree with the solutions of the Occupy Wall Street protesters, but said, "I understand why they are angry."
Their complaint is that capitalism has not produced utopia, and they want left-wing strong-arm government to correct fiscal and standard-of-living imbalances. Christie can't be that ignorant, or else he's being dishonest to score some political points in blue NJ.
jhay78
Posts: 1,917
Oct 19, 2011 6:24pm
OWS main complaint is not an ever-increasing, intrusive, federal government. If it were, they would be on the Mall in DC, not on Wall Street or whatever other city in the US.I Wear Pants;939014 wrote:What he said was correct.
What is really to disagree with there?"What they are saying is, that 'Government is not working for me anymore, government is not being fair and government is not helping me the way it should,'" he added.Christie said that he didn't agree with the solutions of the Occupy Wall Street protesters, but said, "I understand why they are angry."
Their complaint is that capitalism has not produced utopia, and they want left-wing strong-arm government to correct fiscal and standard-of-living imbalances. Christie can't be that ignorant, or else he's being dishonest to score some political points in blue NJ.
jhay78
Posts: 1,917
Oct 19, 2011 6:24pm
OWS main complaint is not an ever-increasing, intrusive, federal government. If it were, they would be on the Mall in DC, not on Wall Street or whatever other city in the US.I Wear Pants;939014 wrote:What he said was correct.
What is really to disagree with there?"What they are saying is, that 'Government is not working for me anymore, government is not being fair and government is not helping me the way it should,'" he added.Christie said that he didn't agree with the solutions of the Occupy Wall Street protesters, but said, "I understand why they are angry."
Their complaint is that capitalism has not produced utopia, and they want left-wing strong-arm government to correct fiscal and standard-of-living imbalances. Christie can't be that ignorant, or else he's being dishonest to score some political points in blue NJ.